Carry extra mag?

[ATex7239]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
KameleON likes to troll the gun posts and tell us:

1. how great his country is, and
2. how lousy our country is.

Just ignore him. He adds nothing to the conversation.

Engage him, and you just encourage more trolling.


As evident by the the unwashed masses yearning to break their chains and immigrate to the land of freedom and opportunity... Slovenia...

 

[spasm3]

Today, I will start leaving the house with an extra magazine.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: billt460

I don't know where you get your information from, but it's false. And stop giving out bad advice that could easily get someone killed.

Get over yourself. I train to suit myself. I'm sure everyone will hang on your words with baited breath. You make sure you give them the best information so they wont be easily killed.

 

[2016Accord]

You seem to be confused about a number of facts.

Originally Posted By: Al

You and I are not cops. We have options that they don't have. Run away/hide. They take longer shots bc they are trying to stop a shooter that is threatening others. We shouldn't do any of these. You better be competent enough to take only a shot where you can not possibly miss. I mean that sincerely and that's my golden rule.


Police are civilians.

Police do not have a legal obligation to intervene to protect an individual or to stop a crime they are witnessing. As the D.C. Court of Appeals said In Warren v. District of Columbia, “the fundamental principle that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen.”

That case was a home invasion where police responded to the scene but left after no one answered their knock on the door. The victims called 911 again, but the police never came back. A number of people were raped and beaten for more than 12 hours. The victims sued and lost because the police were not legally obligated to intervene.

(For more on this, see: http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/10...re_getting.html)

Originally Posted By: Al
If you keep the front sight within the fork of the rear sight you will be off no more than 2" either way. That is a fact.


That's not even close to a fact. Sight configuration, the mechanical accuracy of the firearm, characteristics of the individual cartridge, distance to target, barriers, environmental conditions, etc. all could easily render this statement false. If you feel that you have proven it to yourself I suggest that you revisit the issue and test your assumptions.

I do agree that we are responsible for any shots we take.

 

[surfstar]

Can never be too prepared, right?

I'd wager that y'all are more likely to drown due to Climate Change, than be in a shoot-out where you need another mag.
How have you been preparing for that?

I just carry an extra set of the water wings - you know, to be prepared.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Al
I train to suit myself.


That's fine. Then keep your "advise" to yourself as well.

 

[Ammofirst]

Well there’s shootouts everyday all across the country. To date I know of ZERO citizens dying from natural temperature fluctuations. This guy really knows his marxism. Btw I would wager at this point the vast majority of US citizens would not lift a finger to defend or support California. http://californiapolicycenter.org/californias-total-state-local-debt-totals-1-3-trillion/ 1.3 “TRILLION” To support a lawless seditious state. As homey would say “I don’t think so”

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Ammofirst
Well there’s shootouts everyday all across the country. To date I know of ZERO citizens dying from natural temperature fluctuations. This guy really knows his marxism. Btw I would wager at this point the vast majority of US citizens would not lift a finger to defend or support California. http://californiapolicycenter.org/californias-total-state-local-debt-totals-1-3-trillion/ 1.3 “TRILLION” To support a lawless seditious state. As homey would say “I don’t think so”


California, much like Illinois and New York will eventually collapse under their own financial weight. They will all become a victim of their own creation. It's already well underway. Who's making the popcorn?

 

[Toros]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Toros
Originally Posted By: Chris142
The cops here carry 3 extra mags.

Yeah because they are cops snd you're not.


Originally Posted By: Toros
Originally Posted By: Donald
No need if not law enforcement.


Precisely. Operator or cop wannabees otherwise. Dreaming of the Hollywood firefight they will never encounter.


This is the silliest thing I've ever heard. Who dreams of having their life placed in danger? I'm not getting this whole, "Because they're cops and you're not", reasoning? Especially when trying to determine the amount of spare ammunition a citizen or cop can carry. That's ridiculous. Back when cops carried revolvers, most carried 2 extra speedloaders with them, for a total of 18 rounds. Today few if any cops carry revolvers of any type. And many of the semi auto pistols they carry today have more than 18 rounds in a single magazine. It's no different with a citizen. Today a citizen can carry more ammunition in a single magazine than cops did total just 40 years ago. So what does being a cop have to do with anything?

There is no difference in training for either a cop or a citizen, when it comes to shooting to stop the threat when any given situation goes to guns. With the exception of perhaps their riot gun and non lethal rounds, cops don't use their weapons for crowd control. They can run up against multiple threats when they're alone, just as a citizen can. And I rather doubt any determined bad guy out there tries to acquire a different sight picture, when he's shooting at either a citizen or a cop. So you have absolutely no way to determine why one should require more ammunition than the other. And to say a uniform and a badge is required to carry extra magazines, that you as a citizen can't or shouldn't carry if you're wearing Dockers or Cargo Shorts with a wife beater, is beyond stupid.


Not what I'm saying and you are missing the point. I'm saying cops should and fo carry more firepower because they are duty bound to look for and respond to situations that put them and others in harms way. Additionally, they are bound by different standards and laws governing use of force than a citizen is.
I was a cop so I'm speaking from experience.
You folks running around with 2,3,4 spare magazines with 15-17 rounds are fantasizing of a firefight that you will never encounter. Count your blessings.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Toros
Additionally, they are bound by different standards and laws governing use of force than a citizen is. I was a cop so I'm speaking from experience.


Then explain yourself. Cops are held to a higher standard because they receive more training than a citizen does. And more training doesn't equate to, "I can shoot when you can't". And they cannot indiscriminately shoot anyone without consequences. Any more than a citizen can. We've all seen the results of what happens to them when they do. Especially today. In fact police departments are far more prone to law suits, because the cities they work for have deeper pockets than citizens do. They make much better financial targets for attorneys. They cannot use deadly force, (especially today), without either their life, or someone else's life in immediate danger. Just like any citizen.

Besides, you're splitting hairs in regards to how any of it pertains to the difference in the amount of ammunition either one should carry. This whole, "cops need more" theory is complete nonsense. Simply because no one knows what's going to happen to either... Or what it will require to resolve the situation from an ammunition standpoint.

 

[Ammofirst]

I used to work in the firearms industry with a guy that had a loaded 357 on his person at all times. He also packed a Colt commander as a backup. He kept a small grocery bag full of loaded clips ready to go in the trunk of his car. I asked him why he needed so much Ammo. His response : “You never know when you might get pinned down”. I found out later he was an X navy Seal & he never told anyone. I have to agree with his sentiments. How can you ever know how much Ammo you may need? Gun control gets people killed. In every district / county / city / or state in America where concealed carry laws have been enacted, general & violent crime has been reduced. (Usually significantly) Every single one.

 

[billt460]

So much for cops, "needing more ammo".

https://www.quora.com/On-average-how-man...-officer-career

Paul Harding, Deputy Sheriff since 2000: "On average, an American police officer fires a gun zero times on active duty throughout an entire career..... As far as actually shooting at people goes, maybe 1 out of 100 cops does it even one time in a 30-year career in America. The average number for any one cop, then, would be 0.01 times per career. One one hundredth of one time per career. In other words, an average of zero times.... As a rule, most officers go their entire careers without firing their weapons at an offender."

 

[Toros]

Originally Posted By: billt460
So much for cops, "needing more ammo".

https://www.quora.com/On-average-how-man...-officer-career

Paul Harding, Deputy Sheriff since 2000: "On average, an American police officer fires a gun zero times on active duty throughout an entire career..... As far as actually shooting at people goes, maybe 1 out of 100 cops does it even one time in a 30-year career in America. The average number for any one cop, then, would be 0.01 times per career. One one hundredth of one time per career. In other words, an average of zero times.... As a rule, most officers go their entire careers without firing their weapons at an offender."


Thanks for proving my point. If the average for cops is that low than the average for citizens is far less...approaching the zero mark.
If you wanted to play cop, you should have become one. Otherwise, well, it's America so you can continue to dream on.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Toros
If the average for cops is that low than the average for citizens is far less.


Do yourself a huge favor, just give up. You are only making yourself look more foolish with every post. You really need to improve your math skills Mr. Cop. Nothing from nothing leaves nothing. So please translate for all of us how you need more as a cop, when the statistics prove that your gun will most likely never leave it's holster in your entire career?

 

[surfstar]

Originally Posted By: Ammofirst
Well there’s shootouts everyday all across the country. To date I know of ZERO citizens dying from natural temperature fluctuations. This guy really knows his marxism. Btw I would wager at this point the vast majority of US citizens would not lift a finger to defend or support California. http://californiapolicycenter.org/californias-total-state-local-debt-totals-1-3-trillion/ 1.3 “TRILLION” To support a lawless seditious state. As homey would say “I don’t think so”

"California is one of about 14 "donor states" where residents pay far more in federal taxes than they get back in federal aid and contracts."

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc...-takers/361668/
https://people.howstuffworks.com/which-s...et-the-most.htm

as is typical of your party, don't let the truth get in the way of your beliefs.

 

[bigj_16]

If you are able to, why not carry extra weapons/magazines/ammo? There are two instances, which interestingly have not been addressed on here, in the last week, where extra might make the difference. The Wal-Mart shooting in Thornton, CO and the church shooting in Sutherland Springs, TX.
I have no fantasies of getting in a shootout with anyone. That is the last thing I want to do. But I have an obligation/responsibility to protect the innocent.
In the Thornton shooting, it looks that armed civilians' show of force may have aborted the shooter's attempt.
In Texas, it looks like an armed civilian DID abort the shooter's rampage.
You can quote statistics of something happening all you want. When something actually happens to you, statistics go out the window.
Fortunately, I am able to carry a weapon/s and ammunition, and I choose to do so.
I understand most people will cut and run when it comes to time to make a decision. I can not do that. Just call it a failing on my part.

 

[JoeJ]

I read some where that according to FBI stats, most shootouts are of 3 shots at less than 7 ft. Having an extra mag is worth it. Better have it and not need it than not have it and need it.

 

[Al]

Quote:
Police do not have a legal obligation to intervene to protect an individual or to stop a crime they are witnessing The victims sued and lost because the police were not legally obligated to intervene.

Any good cop will intervene at the risk of his person.

Quote:
That's not even close to a fact. Sight configuration, the mechanical accuracy of the firearm, characteristics of the individual cartridge, distance to target, barriers, environmental conditions, etc. all could easily render this statement false. If you feel that you have proven it to yourself I suggest that you revisit the issue and test your assumptions.

I have calculated it and actually done it..its between 1.5" and 2" inches at 25 feet. Take it to the bank. Prove me wrong.

Quote:
I do agree that we are responsible for any shots we take.

We agree on the most important issue IMHO

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Al
I train to suit myself.


That's fine. Then keep your "advise" to yourself as well.

Do you own this forum? Didn't think so..thanks.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: surfstar
"California is one of about 14 "donor states" where residents pay far more in federal taxes than they get back in federal aid and contracts."


That means nothing when your state is $1.3 TRILLION in debt, with it INCREASING every year. And no way to pay it off. Not to mention companies and jobs leaving every day. And with the way your state mismanages money, and refuses to obey Federal Immigration laws, the Feds shouldn't give you a penny.

 

[wwillson]

Politics - lock time