Can Honda oil filters last 6 years?

[Ihatetochangeoil]

Lots of speculation and very few facts presented here. I think you could go 12 years/14K with the right filter. How about 5 years for an OCI backed by UOA?
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4190879/1992_Surburban_Big_Block_-_M1_

Or, how about 9 years and 6300 miles with Used Oil Analysis? Here you go:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4533985/Mobil1_0w-40_SuperSyn_-_10200k

My two cents worth is that the OP is attempting to determine when it is advisable to change oil/filter; and my answer is to do whatever lets you sleep at night, perhaps take an oil sample for analization when you feel its time for change and see what the test lab says....Until then, everything that anyone says is speculation.
There are several filters such as Fram Ultra, Royal Purple, Amsoil Ea, and many others that are full synthetic media and designed to go 15-20K miles; and the filters don't have clocks built in and are unaware of time.
Of course there are BITOGERS who think you should change oil/filter every year even if the oil has only 200 miles on it. I'm not one of them....I do regular UOA and go by the test lab results and pay no attention to armchair tribologists.
Peace.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

If you really do plan on running it 6 years, please cut it open when you finally do change it

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil
Lots of speculation and very few facts presented here. I think you could go 12 years/14K with the right filter. How about 5 years for an OCI backed by UOA?
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4190879/1992_Surburban_Big_Block_-_M1_

Or, how about 9 years and 6300 miles with Used Oil Analysis? Here you go:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4533985/Mobil1_0w-40_SuperSyn_-_10200k

My two cents worth is that the OP is attempting to determine when it is advisable to change oil/filter; and my answer is to do whatever lets you sleep at night, perhaps take an oil sample for analization when you feel its time for change and see what the test lab says....Until then, everything that anyone says is speculation.
There are several filters such as Fram Ultra, Royal Purple, Amsoil Ea, and many others that are full synthetic media and designed to go 15-20K miles; and the filters don't have clocks built in and are unaware of time.
Of course there are BITOGERS who think you should change oil/filter every year even if the oil has only 200 miles on it. I'm not one of them....I do regular UOA and go by the test lab results and pay no attention to armchair tribologists.
Peace.

A UOA doesn't tell how much water the cellulose oil filter is holding. Which was one of the main points people brought up, water in the media weakening it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Long tripping it way more than short tripping helps keep moisture burned off inside the crankcase and filter.

 

[Ihatetochangeoil]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil
Lots of speculation and very few facts presented here. I think you could go 12 years/14K with the right filter. How about 5 years for an OCI backed by UOA?
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4190879/1992_Surburban_Big_Block_-_M1_

Or, how about 9 years and 6300 miles with Used Oil Analysis? Here you go:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4533985/Mobil1_0w-40_SuperSyn_-_10200k

My two cents worth is that the OP is attempting to determine when it is advisable to change oil/filter; and my answer is to do whatever lets you sleep at night, perhaps take an oil sample for analization when you feel its time for change and see what the test lab says....Until then, everything that anyone says is speculation.
There are several filters such as Fram Ultra, Royal Purple, Amsoil Ea, and many others that are full synthetic media and designed to go 15-20K miles; and the filters don't have clocks built in and are unaware of time.
Of course there are BITOGERS who think you should change oil/filter every year even if the oil has only 200 miles on it. I'm not one of them....I do regular UOA and go by the test lab results and pay no attention to armchair tribologists.
Peace.

A UOA doesn't tell how much water the cellulose oil filter is holding. Which was one of the main points people brought up, water in the media weakening it.


I'm not "people," and I wasn't discussing cellulose media. A UOA definitely does show water content in the OIL, which stands entirely to reason if there is NO water in the oil, the filter certainly isn't saturated; and every word I said was true.

 

[Bonz]

Reality is spin off the old filter and spin on a new one. However, water in sufficient quantity in the filter media to where it would overwhelm the oil soaked into the filter would be a very difficult thing to achieve! Especially in the kind of situation the original poster was talking about.

 

[joekingcorvette]

A new super tech filter at Walmart $2.99 versus a new Honda engine $10,000 or more? I would skip buying something and buy the oil filter and consider myself good to go for another year. It's not worth worry about a filter disintegrating and plugging up an oil gallery and freezing up the engine without a warning.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: Ihatetochangeoil
Lots of speculation and very few facts presented here. I think you could go 12 years/14K with the right filter. How about 5 years for an OCI backed by UOA?
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4190879/1992_Surburban_Big_Block_-_M1_

Or, how about 9 years and 6300 miles with Used Oil Analysis? Here you go:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4533985/Mobil1_0w-40_SuperSyn_-_10200k

My two cents worth is that the OP is attempting to determine when it is advisable to change oil/filter; and my answer is to do whatever lets you sleep at night, perhaps take an oil sample for analization when you feel its time for change and see what the test lab says....Until then, everything that anyone says is speculation.
There are several filters such as Fram Ultra, Royal Purple, Amsoil Ea, and many others that are full synthetic media and designed to go 15-20K miles; and the filters don't have clocks built in and are unaware of time.
Of course there are BITOGERS who think you should change oil/filter every year even if the oil has only 200 miles on it. I'm not one of them....I do regular UOA and go by the test lab results and pay no attention to armchair tribologists.
Peace.

A UOA doesn't tell how much water the cellulose oil filter is holding. Which was one of the main points people brought up, water in the media weakening it.


I'm not "people," and I wasn't discussing cellulose media. A UOA definitely does show water content in the OIL, which stands entirely to reason if there is NO water in the oil, the filter certainly isn't saturated; and every word I said was true.


A UOA of someone else's oil doesn't pertain to this case. Pure speculation. Cherry picking test reports doesn't apply here. Ford doesn't speculate when it requires USCAR-36 testing which include water absorption. One of the main points people were talking about here is filter deterioration. Water is a big culprit. The OP asked if his filter should be changed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g8x6RlI8bQ

Water can be retained in cellulose fibers and oil still passes through it. That's a big advantage of filters like the Frantz. Temperature has to get over the boiling point of water in the fibers for it to boil away. Not known if that happens here, unlikely. IMO UOA's are a waste of money unless it is a trucking company. I never get them and never will.

 

[Jim Allen]

Berniedd: I think you are OK but it's time to starting thinking about an oil change. I would suggest getting a sampling kit and sending the oil in for a UOA that includes a TBN reading. That would validate your long inteval, or tell you to change sooner.

The questions I didn't hear asked by other posters involve the operating conditions. The op lives in a warm, dry climate, is parked indoors and when the car is driven, it goes a considerable distance. In those circumstances, most here are "chicken-littling" the water issue by a large amount, IMO.

The resins in a modern cellulose filter media make them pretty robust and there is a LOT of safety factor built in. Certainly enough for 3-4 years IMO and probably more for an engine in a dry climate with a "normal" amount of oil from condensation that is boiled off when the car is driven a sufficient distance.

If there are photographic examples of filters with media that expired due to water, I'd like to seen them just to say I had.

Anecdotally, I have seen a LOT of 5, 10, 20 and even 30 year old cellulose filters that had intact media. When I wrenched for a living, I saw engines that ran a long time with blown head gaskets and had a lot of water in the oil... and the filters stayed intact. My own arbitrary limit for oil is 4 years for my low annual hours/miles stuff and the filter goes at the same time.

Goodtimes: I partly disagree with your assessment of UOA as a tool. It's not the magic some imagine it is, especially in terms of "tea-leaf-reading" engine condition (unless it's done with a religious fervor that is not cost effective for most people), but I have found it very useful in helping find an oil change interval. Once done with that, I recoup the money via doubling or tripling my OCI.

Assuming the oil sample was taken properly, the water content of the oil in a UOA is an indicator of the condtions in which the filter is operating, is it not?

Parker has taken the "Franz" idea to a new level, with their Absolute bypass filters (Absolute). Been using those at 3um on some of my stuff since '09 and they have a very large capacity to hold moisture. Unlike the TP filters, the Parker elements are very robust. I basically only change them when flow diminishes.

Anybody else remember the tractor in Texas that had been stored for 30 years... and the oil was suitable for continued use.

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Berniedd: I think you are OK but it's time to starting thinking about an oil change. I would suggest getting a sampling kit and sending the oil in for a UOA that includes a TBN reading. That would validate your long inteval, or tell you to change sooner.

The questions I didn't hear asked by other posters involve the operating conditions. The op lives in a warm, dry climate, is parked indoors and when the car is driven, it goes a considerable distance. In those circumstances, most here are "chicken-littling" the water issue by a large amount, IMO.

The resins in a modern cellulose filter media make them pretty robust and there is a LOT of safety factor built in. Certainly enough for 3-4 years IMO and probably more for an engine in a dry climate with a "normal" amount of oil from condensation that is boiled off when the car is driven a sufficient distance.

If there are photographic examples of filters with media that expired due to water, I'd like to seen them just to say I had.

Anecdotally, I have seen a LOT of 5, 10, 20 and even 30 year old cellulose filters that had intact media. When I wrenched for a living, I saw engines that ran a long time with blown head gaskets and had a lot of water in the oil... and the filters stayed intact. My own arbitrary limit for oil is 4 years for my low annual hours/miles stuff and the filter goes at the same time.

Goodtimes: I partly disagree with your assessment of UOA as a tool. It's not the magic some imagine it is, especially in terms of "tea-leaf-reading" engine condition (unless it's done with a religious fervor that is not cost effective for most people), but I have found it very useful in helping find an oil change interval. Once done with that, I recoup the money via doubling or tripling my OCI.

Assuming the oil sample was taken properly, the water content of the oil in a UOA is an indicator of the condtions in which the filter is operating, is it not?

Parker has taken the "Franz" idea to a new level, with their Absolute bypass filters (Absolute). Been using those at 3um on some of my stuff since '09 and they have a very large capacity to hold moisture. Unlike the TP filters, the Parker elements are very robust. I basically only change them when flow diminishes.

Anybody else remember the tractor in Texas that had been stored for 30 years... and the oil was suitable for continued use.



"I recoup the money via doubling or tripling my OCI."
That is my point, I am not doing a UOA for $30 or more when on my cars I can change oil and filter under 20. If the OP is deciding whether to spend $5 more for a new oil filter, I don't know if he wants to spend $30 on a UOA. Especially only to find his oil is overdue.

Frantz, one of them, has a full synthetic element available now. Synthetic won't hold moisture in the fibers though.

http://www.frantzfilters.com/synthetic-vs-cellulose-media/

Water stays in cellulose even as oil flows through, so the whole filter element would have to get hotter than 100 C for awhile to boil off the water. That's a big unknown factor. The USCAR 36 test does show too much retained water ability in a filter is a problem, because a test is done for that. If all filters were created equally, they also wouldn't have to do the water retention test.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Almost ever car on the road gets the oil to at least 200 deg F. And the oil temperature doesn't have to be 100C (212F) or above to evaporate moisture out of the oil. I really see no way cellulose in a filter is going to always hold moisture if the oil is 200F or above for an extended drives. It's not a one-way water trap.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: goodtimes


"I recoup the money via doubling or tripling my OCI."
That is my point, I am not doing a UOA for $30 or more when on my cars I can change oil and filter under 20. If the OP is deciding whether to spend $5 more for a new oil filter, I don't know if he wants to spend $30 on a UOA. Especially only to find his oil is overdue.

Frantz, one of them, has a full synthetic element available now. Synthetic won't hold moisture in the fibers though.

http://www.frantzfilters.com/synthetic-vs-cellulose-media/

Water stays in cellulose even as oil flows through, so the whole filter element would have to get hotter than 100 C for awhile to boil off the water. That's a big unknown factor. The USCAR 36 test does show too much retained water ability in a filter is a problem, because a test is done for that. If all filters were created equally, they also wouldn't have to do the water retention test.


Thanks for the Franz link. Didn't know that. Very cool! They've come a long way from TP, haven't they?

I doubt very much that his oil is "overdue." Almost any decent oil can do 10K these days in a good operational scenario.

Since I run my oil out to 15K miles or more, when I get a new vehicle, I like to validate a long OCI with a couple of UOAs, one at 10K and at least one more at the highest level I can attain with the oil I am using. Our driving cycle is pretty routine so once the OCI is established, I don't do it again. At the same time, I learn some things about the particular engine. I did the same thing with some low rent oil (Motorcraft) in the F150 and probably could have reached 15K with it. My driving cycle is almost ideal. When the engine starts it's driven at least 20 miles at 60 mph. We are out in the boondocks, so nothing useful is close. OIl gets hot right away and stays there for a good long time.

 

[DuckRyder]

With reference to the filter.

A 2012 CRV has a maintenance minder doesn’t it? What does the owners manual say about time limits?

If we take the later printing of the factory service manual for my Civic is states 10,000 miles or one year for the oil and 20,000 mies or two years for the filter.

So unless the logic changed the factory recommended filter change interval is 1/3 of your suggested 6 year interval. However so is the oil change interval.

I’ve cut a number of factory filters open with similar mileage in a bit shorter time, they usually look ok, though the Acura is a bit harder on them than the Civic seems to be. I agree the filter will probably be OK for 6 years, but I think it would be more prudent to cut it open and have a look before you blindly go that far. It is ~$5.00 filter so just how comfortable are you with “probably”?

 

[valley_ranch]

Haven't read every post on this thread ~ if you have a good Bypass oil filter installed your OEM filter will last years and years ~ is that what you're asking ~ do you have a bypass filter installed ??????

When I install a Frantz Filter on our cars or trucks, with fresh oil ~ I do like to change the OEM filter ~ but no point changing it after that after that it doesn't get gunky anymore ```

Put a Frantz on Youngest daughter's car ~ we didn't change the oil ~ we just watched the oil get cleaner and cleaner until it was like dark honey ```

 

[SlavaB]

Let's run a crowdfunding and get this dude $6 for an oil filter

 

[joekingcorvette]

Yes, a go fund me account would be good or just don't order a Starbucks coffee and you could have your filter.

 

[Pinoak]

Probably would be fine but why have to wonder about it. You could just put one of those ugly fram Ultras on.its usually the cheapest full synthetic media and would not break down for sure

 

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted by Zee09
I wouldn't!
You're asking for trouble.

Motorking says the can may rust out!!!

There are positive anecdotes for your driving conditions going 2 years.

Personally I would go one year. But that is my preference.

 

[JC1]

Originally Posted by NormanBuntz
Why chance it? Use a Fram Ultra.


+1.

I'm planning on running the ultra on my wife's civic for 18 months and then doing a cut and post. That will be around 15,000 km of driving (9k miles) lots of short tripping.