Bitcoins,,,they are suppose to be the new

[Astro14]

Sure, cryptocurrency may change the world, doesn't mean I want to invest my money in it now, which is what you were suggesting.

That's the point.

Railroads changed the world in the 1870s, but most of the original railroad companies went bankrupt in the panic of 1873, and investors lost all their money.

Internet changed the world in the 1990s, but most of the "boom" companies went bankrupt and investors lost all their money. Look at NASDAQ performance in March of 2000.

Stop touting this as an investment.

It's not. It's gambling. You're conflating "revolutionary idea" with "good place for your money".

As far as it being currency, well...since no one is actually buying anything with it right now, it fails the basic test of a currency. It's not a medium of exchange at all.

 

[Shannow]

It's speculation not investing..that's fine.

But the energy used to "mine" it for absolutely nothing tangible is mindboggling.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
As far as it being currency, well...since no one is actually buying anything with it right now, it fails the basic test of a currency. It's not a medium of exchange at all.


People actually are buying things with Bitcoin. In another thread in this forum about Bitcoin a while ago, someone posted a link that showed some box stores where taking Bitcoin. Seems to be getting some traction, but how far will it actually go?

 

[raytseng]

i will just remark @alarmguy that it is not scaring the [censored] out of wall street or the banks. In fact just the opposite. They are rubbing their hands with glee.

Just about nobody is actually physcially holding their own bitcoins and directly buying anything with their bitcoins as you envision. What are they doing? They are giving their money to exchanges and banks to facilitate their day trading. Do people cash out of bitcoin? No, when they sell they typically just move it to a different altcoin and the original money stays with the exchange.

Who gets a cut? Sure they may have fancy names but they are basically companies underwritten by the same finance industry. You should look up all your bitcoin sites you visit or use and really see who owns or has funded it.

Moreover these companies are completely unregulated so they can do whatever they want including betting against their clients, pump and dump, moving the market and so on.
It is thought that many of the exchanges that got "hacked" were really a coverup to close out scams.

So its not your revolution until you actually hold your bitcoin wallet and actually can buy something in bitcoin (and not just a conversion from $). As long as the majority of the bitcoin use is just speculative daytrading in exchanges, its still being controlled by "wall street/the banks"

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: greenjp
How can it be a "currency" if it's value is so volatile?

We've been lucky in North America with Canadian and American dollars. Other countries have not had such luck.

Shannow's point is correct - it's speculation. People are free to do so, but this isn't exactly blue chip stock.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
It's speculation not investing..that's fine.

But the energy used to "mine" it for absolutely nothing tangible is mindboggling.


Who cares about the energy except that it makes a great fake news story.
In contrast, the banking industry uses far more energy then bitcoin ever can.
No negativity directed at you, Im just in amazement the stuff the media sells as "news"

AS far as the meaning of speculation and investing, well, that would be in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Sure, cryptocurrency may change the world.

Stop touting this as an investment.

It's not. It's gambling. You're conflating "revolutionary idea" with "good place for your money".

As far as it being currency, well...since no one is actually buying anything with it right now, it fails the basic test of a currency. It's not a medium of exchange at all.


Your wrong on all counts and clearly do not understand what investing is about and your certainly no expert on what classifies as an investment nor do you understand cryptocurrency.

 

[Mr Nice]

Will Bitcoin be around in 5, 10 , 20 years.... ?

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Sure, cryptocurrency may change the world.

Stop touting this as an investment.

It's not. It's gambling. You're conflating "revolutionary idea" with "good place for your money".

As far as it being currency, well...since no one is actually buying anything with it right now, it fails the basic test of a currency. It's not a medium of exchange at all.


Your wrong on all counts and clearly do not understand what investing is about and your certainly no expert on what classifies as an investment nor do you understand cryptocurrency.


I understood blockchain when it was first developed. I get how this all works.

I've been investing for 25 years. My library has dozens of books on investing. I've read every one of them.

Would you like to compare portfolios?

I'm serious. You talk about investing, but have you actually done any investing? Bought any stocks? Made enough investment return, or built a portfolio large enough, that you can stop working?

If you've not accomplished anything significant in the investing arena, then why should I believe anything that you say?

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Will Bitcoin be around in 5, 10 , 20 years....


Who knows, to me, Bitcoin is not the place to invest, will cryptocurrency be around? yes and bitcoin started it, but just because Bitcoin started it doesnt make it the best.

I say absolutely, Cryptocurrency is going to change the banking world forever and already has, the horse is out of the gate.
Banks will be shutting down like retail stores did, there is no stopping it.
With that said, there are hundreds of cryptocoins and jsut like any new product, some will fail, heck most may fail, like any new start up company, 75% fail..

Then there will be the market leaders, like APPLE, Microsoft, Cysco of years past, these companies were big risks when they formed and ten times this many failed. Some chose the ones that failed and lost everything, some got lucky and picked the survivors.
Just like the tech stocks, it was investing, to say investing in cryptocurrency is any different is no different then those saying how crazy it was to invest in Apple as a start up company.

Any start up is HIGH risk and some choose (or can afford to lose) money for potential huge rewards.

I do think there are some market leaders in there and my personal thoughts are this is my favorite today ...
Ripple has been making big news, now worth more then Uber but who knows, in a few days it maybe worth nothing more then a postage stamp but that goes for anything.
Investing and speculating are two things but a gray line inbetween, everything starts from nothing, there are those that get in early, knowing they will lose money or make huge profits but they can afford to lose, others that need solid well established companies because they can not afford to lose.

Ripple making big news in Asia with banks and credit card companies, will this be the leader in a decade?
Have no idea but its up over 130% in a couple weeks and shooting towards the sun while I type this.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Will Bitcoin be around in 5, 10 , 20 years.... ?

Will we?

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Will Bitcoin be around in 5, 10 , 20 years.... ?

Will we?

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: alarmguy

Sure, cryptocurrency may change the world.

Stop touting this as an investment. ...


I understood blockchain when it was first developed. I get how this all works.

I've been investing for 25 years. My library has dozens of books on investing. I've read every one of them.

Would you like to compare portfolios?

I'm serious. You talk about investing, but have you actually done any investing? Bought any stocks? Made enough investment return, or built a portfolio large enough, that you can stop working?

If you've not accomplished anything significant in the investing arena, then why should I believe anything that you say?


My, Last reply to your posts, others reading this thread can make there own decisions.
Why would you expect me to answer any questions from you?
Because you read books? Because you invest? Because YOU challenged my posts?
Thats to bad, as my posts werent meant for you until you started bashing me.

Sorry but, keep reading what "they" feed you and keep following, there is NOTHING wrong with that.
Its a safe way to do things.

Then there are the pioneers that can take risk, if it wasnt for them, we would not have the lives we have today.

 

[Mr Nice]

Quote:
I've been investing for 25 years. My library has dozens of books on investing. I've read every one of them.

Would you like to compare portfolios?

I'm serious. You talk about investing, but have you actually done any investing? Bought any stocks? Made enough investment return, or built a portfolio large enough, that you can stop working?


I hope I'm not being nosy but.... approx how much is you portfolio ?

 

[Astro14]

My posts were for everyone, alarmguy, until YOU made it personal, telling me that I am wrong and don’t understand anything.

Well, my posts are still for everyone. Except for my challenge to you; have you ever made any money investing?

Because you’re still confused on this point: the “wave of the future” is not always a good pace for YOUR money.

I’ve watched how retail is changing. I bought AMZN at $252. Still own it. Feel free to research how that’s worked out.

I’ve watched crypto currency with interest. I’ll keep watching, for now. Thanks.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Quote:
I've been investing for 25 years. My library has dozens of books on investing. I've read every one of them.

Would you like to compare portfolios?

I'm serious. You talk about investing, but have you actually done any investing? Bought any stocks? Made enough investment return, or built a portfolio large enough, that you can stop working?


I hope I'm not being nosy but.... approx how much is you portfolio ?



I’ll PM you the answer.

But, simply, it generates more return, based on a 4% withdrawal rate, than my USN Captain pension will provide.

I keep working because I like my job.

And because I’m paying for my son’s college (he’s a junior) and will pay for my younger daughter’s college. She’s a HS senior. Just got into a great school.

 

[raytseng]

I think the logical problem with alarmguys view is that his idealistic view of bitcoin is not matching real usage.

It is like how bittorrent apologists will always try to example that it's for distribution of indie this or that, but if you were to look at usage statistics,like 99%+ of bittorrent traffic is just to pirate copyrighted media.

Similarly some legal marijuana evangelists get too wrapped up with the medical side and don't just want to admit the majority of consumption is just for recreation and not primarily for medical purposes.

I think I already all posted my view as have others. We get where you are coming from and your argument, I get it. I'm not convinced you have it right nor will repeating the same idealistic pov chsnge minds; but people especially on the internet don't have to agree about everything so we can just leave it at that

 

[cjcride]

At Christmas with the whole family the kids (early 20's) were talking about buying Bitcoin.
I advised any who owned it to sell it.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy
who knows, in a few days it maybe worth nothing more then a postage stamp but that goes for anything. ....


Actually, no, it does not go for anything. If bitcoin were to be described as property, and I'm not at all sure it can be, perhaps that's even the point of it, in a weird way - it's the absolute worst kind to have - it's personal, and it's intangible. At least intellectual property can be used to make something of value. Bitcoin even fails that test, as best I can see.

You are describing pure speculation, possibly gambling, which is okay, for those that know they are engaging in it, and are okay with the downside, which is substantial for this type of speculation.

In a perverse way, it has a touch of brilliance - people are giving something of actual value for, literally, nothing, except the hope that someone else will give even more of something that has actual value, for, literally, nothing. It may be the brave new world of the future, but it's hard to see how. What rational person gives something for nothing? It may be one of the greatest scams ever conceived by the mind of man.

It sorta reminds me of alchemy. But lead still had value as lead.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Who cares about the energy except that it makes a great fake news story.
In contrast, the banking industry uses far more energy then bitcoin ever can.
No negativity directed at you, Im just in amazement the stuff the media sells as "news"

AS far as the meaning of speculation and investing, well, that would be in the eyes of the beholder.


Of COURSE we should care how much energy, how much extraction of natural resources goes into making....absolutely nothing.

I don't get your high horse objection to bringing it up...it's a fact, huge energy is burned to perform useless calculations to prove that the effort has been made to create one.

Could have the processing going towards SETI, Cancer cures, whatever and be productive...that just ain't.

and what's "fake" about the news ?

edit...and how many people USE the banking industry to do their business and daily lives...Bit coin offers absolutely ZERO of the services that the banking industry provides