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AWD with Summers vs FWD with winters
- Thread starter dbias
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Not surprising in the least bit.
However, why does it have to be a choice between AWD with summers vs 2WD with winters? Get AWD and winters.
However, why does it have to be a choice between AWD with summers vs 2WD with winters? Get AWD and winters.
I think it is a very good comparison. I put Bridgestone Blizzaks on all 4 wheels of both of our 2 wheel drive vehicles every winter, FWD 2001 Chevy Impala, and RWD 1985 Olds 88 without posi-tractin rear end (so if one of the rear wheels slips it will not go). And I have driven around several vehicles that were spinning there tires, or completely slid off the road side-swiping guard-reals or into curbes when there was snow or ice on the roads. Real winter tires like Blizzaks actually have traction even on ice covered roads and I have avoided problems many times because our vehicles are equipped with those tires every winter.
My brother came out of a tunnel and onto an ice covered bridge at highway speeds one winter in his Mercury Grand Marquis with Blizzaks on all 4 and the entrance to the bridge required him to make a slight turn to align his vehicle with the lane on the bridge. An identical vehicle behind him did not have winter tires and slid on the ice and went into a cement side of the bridge.
My brother came out of a tunnel and onto an ice covered bridge at highway speeds one winter in his Mercury Grand Marquis with Blizzaks on all 4 and the entrance to the bridge required him to make a slight turn to align his vehicle with the lane on the bridge. An identical vehicle behind him did not have winter tires and slid on the ice and went into a cement side of the bridge.
I will agree that they could have put all seasons on all 4 of the AWD, and then compared it to a FWD with winters.
Originally Posted by JimPghPA
I will agree that they could have put all seasons on all 4 of the AWD, and then compared it to a FWD with winters.
Yeah, because who really drives on summer tires in an AWD car in the winter? Mostly likely just regular all seasons.
I will agree that they could have put all seasons on all 4 of the AWD, and then compared it to a FWD with winters.
Yeah, because who really drives on summer tires in an AWD car in the winter? Mostly likely just regular all seasons.
Originally Posted by Lolvoguy
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Not surprising in the least bit.
I agree, it's a very stupid comparison.
Why not compare FWD with winters VS AWD with all season tires?
You have all over internet, same results.
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Not surprising in the least bit.
I agree, it's a very stupid comparison.
Why not compare FWD with winters VS AWD with all season tires?
You have all over internet, same results.
Sure, winter tires are great, but you don't need them 90% of the time if you have good all-season tires and you are a normal driver. In the Northeast most of us do very little driving on snow-covered roads like that with no treatment. In New York the plows are out before the first snow starts treating the roads, and then they go 24/7 nonstop until the roads are clear again. "Winter" driving often means slippery conditions, but not pure snow. The road is likely to be a mix of bare pavement, thin snow, slush, water, and ice. With care I regularly commuted in that slop for decades in all sorts of vehicles with just all seasons. The first hint that the roads are getting bad is usually a 4WD truck or SUV in the ditch because they were going too fast.
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I'm sure "performance winters" are the bees knees, but I just don't find the need for anything better than good all-season tires. The cost and pain of switching is just not worth it for the handful of days when driving is truly awful. Still, I have often been the only car on the road using nothing but all-season radials. Once when driving up from the south in the middle of the winter on the Interstate in North Carolina my wife and I began to wonder where all the cars were. We turned on the radio and learned that the highway had been closed! No plows were out either. We just kept plowing on in a Ford Escort wagon with all-season radials. No problem. YMMV
Those summer performance tires are likely to be complete rocks when it's below freezing...no clever AWD is going to help you much when your tires are that hard (maybe unless you have studs).
I agree with the posters who feel that a comparison involving a FWD vehicle with some type of all season tire would have been much more illuminating.
Honestly, if you live in a flatter area that gets snow and ice, you are likely to be happy with FWD and snow tires in the winter.
I live in a hilly area and have a particularly steep slope to climb to get into my neighborhood from the main road, plus I like to downhill ski and that pretty much has to involve dealing with mountains in the winter by its nature...AWD is a no brainer for me.
It's a bummer to get up early to ski and then get stuck behind people who can't make the climb up to the resort in a FWD vehicle that may even have snows on it...they never just pull over and let people by, they just stay in the road and keep struggling until they get a bunch of people to push, wear through the ice through spinning their tires, or slide off out of control. Be prepared, people!!!
I agree with the posters who feel that a comparison involving a FWD vehicle with some type of all season tire would have been much more illuminating.
Honestly, if you live in a flatter area that gets snow and ice, you are likely to be happy with FWD and snow tires in the winter.
I live in a hilly area and have a particularly steep slope to climb to get into my neighborhood from the main road, plus I like to downhill ski and that pretty much has to involve dealing with mountains in the winter by its nature...AWD is a no brainer for me.
It's a bummer to get up early to ski and then get stuck behind people who can't make the climb up to the resort in a FWD vehicle that may even have snows on it...they never just pull over and let people by, they just stay in the road and keep struggling until they get a bunch of people to push, wear through the ice through spinning their tires, or slide off out of control. Be prepared, people!!!
Originally Posted by AuthorEditor
Sure, winter tires are great, but you don't need them 90% of the time if you have good all-season tires and you are a normal driver. In the Northeast most of us do very little driving on snow-covered roads like that with no treatment. In New York the plows are out before the first snow starts treating the roads, and then they go 24/7 nonstop until the roads are clear again. "Winter" driving often means slippery conditions, but not pure snow. The road is likely to be a mix of bare pavement, thin snow, slush, water, and ice. With care I regularly commuted in that slop for decades in all sorts of vehicles with just all seasons. The first hint that the roads are getting bad is usually a 4WD truck or SUV in the ditch because they were going too fast.
Ditto, most of winter is just too nice to "need" snow tires in this area. I'm kinda hoping my wife gets her second vehicle soon and we can put snows onto that, that way we both can have our daily driver with all seasons and then our spares with snows for when the going gets tough. Dealing with a second set of tires isn't that big of a deal to me but listening to tire roar is.
Sure, winter tires are great, but you don't need them 90% of the time if you have good all-season tires and you are a normal driver. In the Northeast most of us do very little driving on snow-covered roads like that with no treatment. In New York the plows are out before the first snow starts treating the roads, and then they go 24/7 nonstop until the roads are clear again. "Winter" driving often means slippery conditions, but not pure snow. The road is likely to be a mix of bare pavement, thin snow, slush, water, and ice. With care I regularly commuted in that slop for decades in all sorts of vehicles with just all seasons. The first hint that the roads are getting bad is usually a 4WD truck or SUV in the ditch because they were going too fast.
Ditto, most of winter is just too nice to "need" snow tires in this area. I'm kinda hoping my wife gets her second vehicle soon and we can put snows onto that, that way we both can have our daily driver with all seasons and then our spares with snows for when the going gets tough. Dealing with a second set of tires isn't that big of a deal to me but listening to tire roar is.
Here are two shots of my truck tires. The first is a Cooper Discoverer ATW which are full-on winter truck tires with the "Mountain Snowflake" designation. The second shot is a Motomaster APL which is a M&S rated truck tire. I need the winter tires around here, but the M&S tires in 4 WD do pretty well, much better the comical BMW with the summer tires. Both are legal to serve as "winter tires" up here in British Columbia. Thanks for the posting. It was pretty neat.
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My old Yaris 3 door with (-2 steel wheels) WInterforce 195 70r 14 on front only would out-drive the wife's older Subaru orester 5m with 1/2 worn factory Yoko Geos. I know I did some laps around our neighborhood "loop' in some 5" of slushy un-plowed snow. Terrible ASR on the forester absolutely criminal programming. Had to switch it off. It May have been the 5MT hampering the programming. The yaris flew around that loop like a 1/2 mile dirt track on saturday night.
Previously the Yaris would go absolutely NOWHERE in of snow/slush on the factory "All-Seasons".
Previously the Yaris would go absolutely NOWHERE in of snow/slush on the factory "All-Seasons".
Originally Posted by AuthorEditor
Sure, winter tires are great, but you don't need them 90% of the time if you have good all-season tires and you are a normal driver. In the Northeast most of us do very little driving on snow-covered roads like that with no treatment. In New York the plows are out before the first snow starts treating the roads, and then they go 24/7 nonstop until the roads are clear again. "Winter" driving often means slippery conditions, but not pure snow. The road is likely to be a mix of bare pavement, thin snow, slush, water, and ice. With care I regularly commuted in that slop for decades in all sorts of vehicles with just all seasons. The first hint that the roads are getting bad is usually a 4WD truck or SUV in the ditch because they were going too fast.
What about 10% of the time?
I have both vehicles on winter tires, and trust me, Colorado is much better in winter than anything in the Northeast. But, tell me what happens when 2 year old runs 105 degrees temperature at 3am and outside is blizzard?
Most of the time when I actually needed winter tires to stop, it was hard braking on green light bcs someone who does not need winter tires 90% of the time could not stop on the red light.
Sure, winter tires are great, but you don't need them 90% of the time if you have good all-season tires and you are a normal driver. In the Northeast most of us do very little driving on snow-covered roads like that with no treatment. In New York the plows are out before the first snow starts treating the roads, and then they go 24/7 nonstop until the roads are clear again. "Winter" driving often means slippery conditions, but not pure snow. The road is likely to be a mix of bare pavement, thin snow, slush, water, and ice. With care I regularly commuted in that slop for decades in all sorts of vehicles with just all seasons. The first hint that the roads are getting bad is usually a 4WD truck or SUV in the ditch because they were going too fast.
What about 10% of the time?
I have both vehicles on winter tires, and trust me, Colorado is much better in winter than anything in the Northeast. But, tell me what happens when 2 year old runs 105 degrees temperature at 3am and outside is blizzard?
Most of the time when I actually needed winter tires to stop, it was hard braking on green light bcs someone who does not need winter tires 90% of the time could not stop on the red light.
Originally Posted by AuthorEditor
Sure, winter tires are great, but you don't need them 90% of the time if you have good all-season tires and you are a normal driver. In the Northeast most of us do very little driving on snow-covered roads like that with no treatment. In New York the plows are out before the first snow starts treating the roads, and then they go 24/7 nonstop until the roads are clear again. "Winter" driving often means slippery conditions, but not pure snow. The road is likely to be a mix of bare pavement, thin snow, slush, water, and ice. With care I regularly commuted in that slop for decades in all sorts of vehicles with just all seasons. The first hint that the roads are getting bad is usually a 4WD truck or SUV in the ditch because they were going too fast.
I am from the East Coast, can you recommend a good all season tires can handle light snow?
Sure, winter tires are great, but you don't need them 90% of the time if you have good all-season tires and you are a normal driver. In the Northeast most of us do very little driving on snow-covered roads like that with no treatment. In New York the plows are out before the first snow starts treating the roads, and then they go 24/7 nonstop until the roads are clear again. "Winter" driving often means slippery conditions, but not pure snow. The road is likely to be a mix of bare pavement, thin snow, slush, water, and ice. With care I regularly commuted in that slop for decades in all sorts of vehicles with just all seasons. The first hint that the roads are getting bad is usually a 4WD truck or SUV in the ditch because they were going too fast.
I am from the East Coast, can you recommend a good all season tires can handle light snow?
For over a decade I worked in the Southern Adirondack Mountains and I commuted in a rear drive Crown Vic and a Grand Marquis with nothing but all-season radials. I did carry a couple of heavy toolboxes and other junk in the trunk, and sometimes a big bag of salt or two. I've had AWD and 4WD drive vehicles wipe out within sight on bad roads, while I remained in control. How you drive is more important than the particular equipment you have. Would winter tires on all four wheels have been better? Yes! I just couldn't justify the price and the hassle, and then have to endure wearing down my expensive tires for the 95% of the time they weren't needed at all. We would often take a winter trip or two from New York to Florida and back, totaling 5-6K of driving. What a waste that would be driving on winter tires.
Originally Posted by AuthorEditor
For over a decade I worked in the Southern Adirondack Mountains and I commuted in a rear drive Crown Vic and a Grand Marquis with nothing but all-season radials. I did carry a couple of heavy toolboxes and other junk in the trunk, and sometimes a big bag of salt or two. I've had AWD and 4WD drive vehicles wipe out within sight on bad roads, while I remained in control. How you drive is more important than the particular equipment you have. Would winter tires on all four wheels have been better? Yes! I just couldn't justify the price and the hassle, and then have to endure wearing down my expensive tires for the 95% of the time they weren't needed at all. We would often take a winter trip or two from New York to Florida and back, totaling 5-6K of driving. What a waste that would be driving on winter tires.
Not any all season tires is good in snow. Hence, I ask is there an all season tires you can recommend? Brand and model? Thanks
For over a decade I worked in the Southern Adirondack Mountains and I commuted in a rear drive Crown Vic and a Grand Marquis with nothing but all-season radials. I did carry a couple of heavy toolboxes and other junk in the trunk, and sometimes a big bag of salt or two. I've had AWD and 4WD drive vehicles wipe out within sight on bad roads, while I remained in control. How you drive is more important than the particular equipment you have. Would winter tires on all four wheels have been better? Yes! I just couldn't justify the price and the hassle, and then have to endure wearing down my expensive tires for the 95% of the time they weren't needed at all. We would often take a winter trip or two from New York to Florida and back, totaling 5-6K of driving. What a waste that would be driving on winter tires.
Not any all season tires is good in snow. Hence, I ask is there an all season tires you can recommend? Brand and model? Thanks
There were many STI owners, when the STI came out in 2004, thought they could run summer tires in the snow, as they had a superior AWD system.
Good all-season for winter?
Nokian WR G4 (I had the G3 previously)
Vredestein Quatrac 5
Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady.
Good all-season for winter?
Nokian WR G4 (I had the G3 previously)
Vredestein Quatrac 5
Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady.
Originally Posted by painfx
Not any all season tires is good in snow. Hence, I ask is there an all season tires you can recommend? Brand and model? Thanks
I would look at Vredestein Quatrac 5.
Keep in mind, snow capabilities are also size dependent. In your size (235/40/19), I wouldn't expect miracles. To give you an example, wife had Bridgestone RE960 A/S on her Jetta in size 195/65/15. She managed just fine in light snow. I had the same tire model on my BMW in size 235/45/17, and they were downright scary during winter. Undriveable, really, unless the roads were completely dry.
Not any all season tires is good in snow. Hence, I ask is there an all season tires you can recommend? Brand and model? Thanks
I would look at Vredestein Quatrac 5.
Keep in mind, snow capabilities are also size dependent. In your size (235/40/19), I wouldn't expect miracles. To give you an example, wife had Bridgestone RE960 A/S on her Jetta in size 195/65/15. She managed just fine in light snow. I had the same tire model on my BMW in size 235/45/17, and they were downright scary during winter. Undriveable, really, unless the roads were completely dry.
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