Please post your data to support this
ARX made my lifters noisy?
- Thread starter kilou
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Originally Posted By: dbdeland
c3po,
Perhaps this will answer questions in regards o ARX and engine noise.
When proper lubrication fails to occur, uneven hot spots are created underneath contamination deposits.
Nope, when lubrication fails you get metal to metal contact.
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It's inevitable: engine sludge and contamination build-up are working together this very second with the sole objective of killing your engine.
I doubt that engine sludge is intelligent enough to have an objective in life. All this emotional language, impedes rational thought.
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As you start to get oil on metal that has been starved for lubrication there will be noises. By the Rinse Mode they are gone and won’t come back.
This makes no sense, a lubricated surface should not be noisy because there are no vibrations/noise caused by slip-stick friction (aka metal to metal contact).
c3po,
Perhaps this will answer questions in regards o ARX and engine noise.
When proper lubrication fails to occur, uneven hot spots are created underneath contamination deposits.
Nope, when lubrication fails you get metal to metal contact.
Quote:
It's inevitable: engine sludge and contamination build-up are working together this very second with the sole objective of killing your engine.
I doubt that engine sludge is intelligent enough to have an objective in life. All this emotional language, impedes rational thought.
Quote:
As you start to get oil on metal that has been starved for lubrication there will be noises. By the Rinse Mode they are gone and won’t come back.
This makes no sense, a lubricated surface should not be noisy because there are no vibrations/noise caused by slip-stick friction (aka metal to metal contact).
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Please post your data to support this
Post your data to show that ARX is not causing brand new noises at startup due to interfering with the oils chemistry.
Perhaps ARX contains "soluble noise" and these new noises after adding ARX are the result of the sounds in the ARX coming out of solution as they react with engine sludge and varnish. By the time you start the rinse phase the noises have fully evaporated, which is why you don't hear them anymore.
Please post your data to support this
Post your data to show that ARX is not causing brand new noises at startup due to interfering with the oils chemistry.
Perhaps ARX contains "soluble noise" and these new noises after adding ARX are the result of the sounds in the ARX coming out of solution as they react with engine sludge and varnish. By the time you start the rinse phase the noises have fully evaporated, which is why you don't hear them anymore.
Oh dear another noob who knows more than trhe rest of us put together. Maybe we can install a noob filter here to keep it as it used to be?
Originally Posted By: ionbeam22
Easy, ARX is causing dry starts. Probably, because ARX is interfering with the residual oil film and/or cold cranking abilities of the oil.
Is this a good thing to be doing? Probably not.
I had my VC off this summer to update a seal in my variable valve timing gear. I had ARX in a dino HDEO (XD-3 15W40) at a heavy maint dose (5oz) at the time.
While not the same as a full cleaning dose, I can confirm that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the oil film on the valve gear. Everything was coated in a thin, slippery and evenly distributed layer even 1.5-2 days after the last start. I've never had a problem with oil reaching my HLAs immediately on startup.
ionbeam: that's a pretty bold conclusion based on a "probably". There's nothing wrong with the oil film. Also, with all the different oils in use and climate conditions out there, the cold start viscosity of oil in members' vehicles has ENORMOUS variation. How could a couple of ounces of ARX outdo the differences caused by the variation of climate even just within the US combined with oil choices from synthetic 0W20 through dino 20W50 being used?
Some people just love to hate... Others probably use MMO on pancakes.
Easy, ARX is causing dry starts. Probably, because ARX is interfering with the residual oil film and/or cold cranking abilities of the oil.
Is this a good thing to be doing? Probably not.
I had my VC off this summer to update a seal in my variable valve timing gear. I had ARX in a dino HDEO (XD-3 15W40) at a heavy maint dose (5oz) at the time.
While not the same as a full cleaning dose, I can confirm that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the oil film on the valve gear. Everything was coated in a thin, slippery and evenly distributed layer even 1.5-2 days after the last start. I've never had a problem with oil reaching my HLAs immediately on startup.
ionbeam: that's a pretty bold conclusion based on a "probably". There's nothing wrong with the oil film. Also, with all the different oils in use and climate conditions out there, the cold start viscosity of oil in members' vehicles has ENORMOUS variation. How could a couple of ounces of ARX outdo the differences caused by the variation of climate even just within the US combined with oil choices from synthetic 0W20 through dino 20W50 being used?
Some people just love to hate... Others probably use MMO on pancakes.
Originally Posted By: ADFD1
Originally Posted By: dbdeland
c3po,
As you start to get oil on metal that has been starved for lubrication there will be noises. By the Rinse Mode they are gone and won’t come back.
Wouldn't metal that was starved for lubrication make noise, because it is starved? Once the lubrication reaches that starved metal the noise would stop. Sounds like you might have it backwards, or I should have slept a little later this morning.
I don't use MMO on pancakes but do like it as an oil and gas additive. AD was correct in what he said. Areas that were starved for oil don't start making noise when they are hit with oil, they make noise because they were starved for oil. Seems some people are confused on the fact that starved parts make noise and oiled parts that are functioning properly don't make noise. The sooner oil reaches a part the better!
Originally Posted By: dbdeland
c3po,
As you start to get oil on metal that has been starved for lubrication there will be noises. By the Rinse Mode they are gone and won’t come back.
Wouldn't metal that was starved for lubrication make noise, because it is starved? Once the lubrication reaches that starved metal the noise would stop. Sounds like you might have it backwards, or I should have slept a little later this morning.
I don't use MMO on pancakes but do like it as an oil and gas additive. AD was correct in what he said. Areas that were starved for oil don't start making noise when they are hit with oil, they make noise because they were starved for oil. Seems some people are confused on the fact that starved parts make noise and oiled parts that are functioning properly don't make noise. The sooner oil reaches a part the better!
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I don't use MMO on pancakes but do like it as an oil and gas additive. AD was correct in what he said. Areas that were starved for oil don't start making noise when they are hit with oil, they make noise because they were starved for oil. Seems some people are confused on the fact that starved parts make noise and oiled parts that are functioning properly don't make noise. The sooner oil reaches a part the better!
So if ARX causes formerly silent contact surfaces to become noisy, what does that imply?
I don't use MMO on pancakes but do like it as an oil and gas additive. AD was correct in what he said. Areas that were starved for oil don't start making noise when they are hit with oil, they make noise because they were starved for oil. Seems some people are confused on the fact that starved parts make noise and oiled parts that are functioning properly don't make noise. The sooner oil reaches a part the better!
So if ARX causes formerly silent contact surfaces to become noisy, what does that imply?
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
It seems thick, yet does not affect viscosity of the host oil... The Tao cares not for the physics of men.
It is thick until it dissolves in the oil, then it becomes ONE with the oil. That's the Tao of oil chemistry.
Many additives we use are over 250 cSt yet dissolve in the host base oil without thickening.
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Easy, ARX is causing dry starts. Probably, because ARX is interfering with the residual oil film and/or cold cranking abilities of the oil.
Most likely the lifters have drained down over night and are pumping up from a cold start.
I have seen cleaners remove crud that had kept the lifters from pumping down.
Maybe now the lifters are clean, they may need readjustment, at least this is the situation I have found with SB chevy's.
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Post your data to show that ARX is not causing brand new noises at startup due to interfering with the oils chemistry.
It is not intrferring with the oil's chemistry. The only thing you're adding to the oil with ARX is a set of cleaning esters.
It seems thick, yet does not affect viscosity of the host oil... The Tao cares not for the physics of men.
It is thick until it dissolves in the oil, then it becomes ONE with the oil. That's the Tao of oil chemistry.
Many additives we use are over 250 cSt yet dissolve in the host base oil without thickening.
Quote:
Easy, ARX is causing dry starts. Probably, because ARX is interfering with the residual oil film and/or cold cranking abilities of the oil.
Most likely the lifters have drained down over night and are pumping up from a cold start.
I have seen cleaners remove crud that had kept the lifters from pumping down.
Maybe now the lifters are clean, they may need readjustment, at least this is the situation I have found with SB chevy's.
Quote:
Post your data to show that ARX is not causing brand new noises at startup due to interfering with the oils chemistry.
It is not intrferring with the oil's chemistry. The only thing you're adding to the oil with ARX is a set of cleaning esters.
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'kule you better explain your background.
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
So if ARX causes formerly silent contact surfaces to become noisy, what does that imply?
You need to read my explanation just below your post; cause and effect realationships my friend.
Quote:
'kule you better explain your background.
Tribologist and Aerospace Engineer, grandpa, grease monkey/backyard-mechanic, lubricants formulator, consultant, grandpa, SB (especially dirt track
) racing enthusiast, grandpa (Whoops, said that already)!
So if ARX causes formerly silent contact surfaces to become noisy, what does that imply?
You need to read my explanation just below your post; cause and effect realationships my friend.
Quote:
'kule you better explain your background.
Tribologist and Aerospace Engineer, grandpa, grease monkey/backyard-mechanic, lubricants formulator, consultant, grandpa, SB (especially dirt track
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I'm still going with the theory that ARX is adding "liquid noise", which explains the high price of this product compared to alternatives (MMO/Rislone).
Originally Posted By: ionbeam22
I'm still going with the theory that ARX is adding "liquid noise", which explains the high price of this product compared to alternatives (MMO/Rislone).
"Liquid Noise" Are you kidding me? Listen to Mola... I am un aware of ball bearings in arx....
I'm still going with the theory that ARX is adding "liquid noise", which explains the high price of this product compared to alternatives (MMO/Rislone).
"Liquid Noise" Are you kidding me? Listen to Mola... I am un aware of ball bearings in arx....
Liquid noise is the sonic embodiment of the Tao made manifest in your eardrums.
Green, Ive seen you be coherent in other threads so I know you are capable...
The additive section is the realm of the Tao.
The coherence of men has no place here.
The coherence of men has no place here.
ARX Treatment Noise
bruce381
Tribologist
Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 3211
Loc: Millbrae, CA quote:
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Originally posted by 97tbird:
if the noise is "clean" metal getting oil for the 1st time, that means: the "dirty" metal, which did NOT get oil earlier, was silent. Why would dirty, NON-lubricated metal withOUT oil be quiet, and clean, LUBRICATED metal noisy?
I didn't know that a non-lubricated engine (or engine parts) can be quieter...
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Agree.. ALL wear areas in an engine are "clean" the constant slideing keeps it clean the area's that could be cleaned to new, are areas that DO NOT have slideing/rubbing areas. The RX may clean everything but any sliding/rubbing bearing etc is already clean due to motion, The RX may open up cause "chunks" of varnish and sludge to move aroung and can clog drian holes and impact seals untill fully cleaned out.
bruce
bruce381
Tribologist
Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 3211
Loc: Millbrae, CA quote:
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Originally posted by 97tbird:
if the noise is "clean" metal getting oil for the 1st time, that means: the "dirty" metal, which did NOT get oil earlier, was silent. Why would dirty, NON-lubricated metal withOUT oil be quiet, and clean, LUBRICATED metal noisy?
I didn't know that a non-lubricated engine (or engine parts) can be quieter...
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Agree.. ALL wear areas in an engine are "clean" the constant slideing keeps it clean the area's that could be cleaned to new, are areas that DO NOT have slideing/rubbing areas. The RX may clean everything but any sliding/rubbing bearing etc is already clean due to motion, The RX may open up cause "chunks" of varnish and sludge to move aroung and can clog drian holes and impact seals untill fully cleaned out.
bruce
I am now 2000km into rinse phase and my lifters are quiet again. In fact the noise was present at the very beginning of the rinse phase but it went away in about 500km after the oil change. I am still running the same 10w40 oil for now and temperatures are way colder outside but tappets remain quiet. So I definitely think the noisy tappets were due to something caused by ARX, whether good (cleaning) or not I don't know.
Anyway I'm happy to recover a quiet engine. I'll have a look at the filter at the end of the rinse phase to see if it trapped something that may have caused the noise before.
Anyway I'm happy to recover a quiet engine. I'll have a look at the filter at the end of the rinse phase to see if it trapped something that may have caused the noise before.
4,400 kms into clean phase, 5,600 to go. The VANOS rattle has totally gone, I'm happy.
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