I would have to take Fram's word that they are working as intended unless, I have grounds to dispute their claims.
Any FRAM users here?
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Originally Posted By: GSCJR
I would have to take Fram's word that they are working as intended unless, I have grounds to dispute their claims.
The only way to "have grounds" is to cut them open and look inside. If you never do, then you will never know one way or the other ... it will always be a mystery.
I would have to take Fram's word that they are working as intended unless, I have grounds to dispute their claims.
The only way to "have grounds" is to cut them open and look inside. If you never do, then you will never know one way or the other ... it will always be a mystery.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Oh, I followed, but since you commented on a FRAM thread.... and specifically on a particular post that was somewhat positive towards, I decided to see if I could reboot your objectivity program ( : < )
I am objective. If I saw multiple posts about failed Mobil 1 filters, then I guess myself (and probably others) would think that Mobil 1 filters have some kind of built/quality issues. In fact, if I had more than one occurrence of a Purolator Classic having torn media, I'd stop using them completely. If I saw that many members reported failed Purolator Classics, then I'd also probably steer away from them based on others experiences. That's how people try to avoid a problem without "learning the hard way". A product's quality naturally builds its own reputation based on consumer's experiences with that product. It's no different with oil filters.
All that's true, BUT you have to factor "group think" piling on, bovine scatology and lack of objectivity in people outside you and me. Mostly, this was just my feeble attempt at humor.
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Oh, I followed, but since you commented on a FRAM thread.... and specifically on a particular post that was somewhat positive towards, I decided to see if I could reboot your objectivity program ( : < )
I am objective. If I saw multiple posts about failed Mobil 1 filters, then I guess myself (and probably others) would think that Mobil 1 filters have some kind of built/quality issues. In fact, if I had more than one occurrence of a Purolator Classic having torn media, I'd stop using them completely. If I saw that many members reported failed Purolator Classics, then I'd also probably steer away from them based on others experiences. That's how people try to avoid a problem without "learning the hard way". A product's quality naturally builds its own reputation based on consumer's experiences with that product. It's no different with oil filters.
All that's true, BUT you have to factor "group think" piling on, bovine scatology and lack of objectivity in people outside you and me. Mostly, this was just my feeble attempt at humor.
I have no intention of opening a filter or anything else for that matter to verify its operation. Sometimes you need to have some trust in the human race.
Originally Posted By: GSCJR
I have no intention of opening a filter or anything else for that matter to verify its operation. Sometimes you need to have some trust in the human race.
I open them because it's FUN!
I have no intention of opening a filter or anything else for that matter to verify its operation. Sometimes you need to have some trust in the human race.
I open them because it's FUN!
Originally Posted By: GSCJR
I would have to take Fram's word that they are working as intended unless, I have grounds to dispute their claims.
Like I said, I never had a problem in almost a quarter of a million miles. However, the manual of my new Ford did say that certain oil filters could cause clatter on start up and that if you didn't like it to change to a different filter. They didn't exactly use the term "OCOD" in their owner's manual, and they were careful to be neutral on whether this valve clatter was good or bad, but hey, I can take a hint. I'm going to go all out and spend the extra 75 cents for a Motorcraft filter.
I would have to take Fram's word that they are working as intended unless, I have grounds to dispute their claims.
Like I said, I never had a problem in almost a quarter of a million miles. However, the manual of my new Ford did say that certain oil filters could cause clatter on start up and that if you didn't like it to change to a different filter. They didn't exactly use the term "OCOD" in their owner's manual, and they were careful to be neutral on whether this valve clatter was good or bad, but hey, I can take a hint. I'm going to go all out and spend the extra 75 cents for a Motorcraft filter.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: GSCJR
I have no intention of opening a filter or anything else for that matter to verify its operation. Sometimes you need to have some trust in the human race.
I open them because it's FUN!
I open them because I like to know whats going on in my engine. You may think you stuff is squeaky clean and then run a synthetic and find a bunch of crud in your filter.
+ its fun.
Originally Posted By: GSCJR
I have no intention of opening a filter or anything else for that matter to verify its operation. Sometimes you need to have some trust in the human race.
I open them because it's FUN!
I open them because I like to know whats going on in my engine. You may think you stuff is squeaky clean and then run a synthetic and find a bunch of crud in your filter.
+ its fun.
Originally Posted By: GSCJR
I have no intention of opening a filter or anything else for that matter to verify its operation. Sometimes you need to have some trust in the human race.
Never give full trust to the human race, because it causes flaws all the time.
I have no intention of opening a filter or anything else for that matter to verify its operation. Sometimes you need to have some trust in the human race.
Never give full trust to the human race, because it causes flaws all the time.
I can live with that...that's why I said SOME.
Some can mean 1% or 99%, depending on who's defining "some" in their head.
How's the saying go ... "out of sight, out of mind". So if you never cut open an oil filter you will always think they are perfectly fine, even though they may not be.
How's the saying go ... "out of sight, out of mind". So if you never cut open an oil filter you will always think they are perfectly fine, even though they may not be.
Originally Posted By: k1rod
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I see KevGuy found a "FRAM Buddy".
ZeeOSix I agree with you. I am sick of these gratuitous "FRAM OCOD's are great" posts. I'm an engineer and I don't see it at all. From my perspective, it is a mediocre, although functional product, priced higher than it should be. (I am entirely excluding Fram Ultra from this. I believe it is a very good product and very good value.) So all you OCOD lovers... Tell us why you think the Orange can is the best value for your money. Go ahead. Make well thought out, reasonable points and everyone here will acknowledge them (or at least not trash them). Regurgitate "pie in the sky platitudes" and we will eviscerate them. This is your chance. Put up or shut up.
I love you, man.
I couldn't agree more. Even if I DID think it was worth saving $5 per oil change (its not... that has to be less than .001% total cost of ownership of a vehicle), I'd pick one of the many other low-cost filters out there, based on nothing more than visual inspection of the innards of the filter. Is it adequate? Probably. But WHY?!?? This is what my group of engineers likes to call "grabbing the low-hanging fruit." Finding the VEEEEERRRRRRY best filter on the market is hard and takes a lot of effort. But picking, say, a Purolator classic because it has a visibly better formed filter media than the Fram ExtraGuard is so EASY! Its like picking the apples you can reach from the ground. Just pick 'em already.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I see KevGuy found a "FRAM Buddy".
ZeeOSix I agree with you. I am sick of these gratuitous "FRAM OCOD's are great" posts. I'm an engineer and I don't see it at all. From my perspective, it is a mediocre, although functional product, priced higher than it should be. (I am entirely excluding Fram Ultra from this. I believe it is a very good product and very good value.) So all you OCOD lovers... Tell us why you think the Orange can is the best value for your money. Go ahead. Make well thought out, reasonable points and everyone here will acknowledge them (or at least not trash them). Regurgitate "pie in the sky platitudes" and we will eviscerate them. This is your chance. Put up or shut up.
I love you, man.
Originally Posted By: GSCJR
I have no intention of opening a filter or anything else for that matter to verify its operation. Sometimes you need to have some trust in the human race.
I trust the human race (to an extent
).
But all joking aside now, I'm an engineer. I don't trust ANY manufactured machine to be 100% reliable or any mass-produced items to be 100% identical and consistent. I cut open most of my used oil filters to keep tabs on how the brand I use is working. I send in periodic oil samples. I change my transmission fluid and look at the goo in the bottom of the pan for abnormalities. I look at my magnetic drain plugs.
I also let my doctor take X-rays and CT scans, because I want to KNOW if something's going wrong before it causes a big problem.
The logic of your post, humor intended or otherwise, might as well lead to the conclusion, "I don't intend to open the hood of my car to verify its operation by checking the oil level."
I have no intention of opening a filter or anything else for that matter to verify its operation. Sometimes you need to have some trust in the human race.
I trust the human race (to an extent
But all joking aside now, I'm an engineer. I don't trust ANY manufactured machine to be 100% reliable or any mass-produced items to be 100% identical and consistent. I cut open most of my used oil filters to keep tabs on how the brand I use is working. I send in periodic oil samples. I change my transmission fluid and look at the goo in the bottom of the pan for abnormalities. I look at my magnetic drain plugs.
I also let my doctor take X-rays and CT scans, because I want to KNOW if something's going wrong before it causes a big problem.
The logic of your post, humor intended or otherwise, might as well lead to the conclusion, "I don't intend to open the hood of my car to verify its operation by checking the oil level."
I used a Fram extra guard (orange can) for a 5k OCI that was repeated driving up and down the San Bernardino Mountains (elevation change 6,000 ft. over 13 miles), hot desert heat, and a cross country trip.
Filter came out fine with no issues.
There are better filters at more competitive pricing - but this filter will provide the protection you need at 5k OCI.
Filter came out fine with no issues.
There are better filters at more competitive pricing - but this filter will provide the protection you need at 5k OCI.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Some can mean 1% or 99%, depending on who's defining "some" in their head.
How's the saying go ... "out of sight, out of mind". So if you never cut open an oil filter you will always think they are perfectly fine, even though they may not be.
Exactly. The amount of filters cut open are a miniscule amount considering all of the filters in service. And look at how many defects across many diferent brands have been discovered just here at BITOG! I find that amazing.
Some can mean 1% or 99%, depending on who's defining "some" in their head.
How's the saying go ... "out of sight, out of mind". So if you never cut open an oil filter you will always think they are perfectly fine, even though they may not be.
Exactly. The amount of filters cut open are a miniscule amount considering all of the filters in service. And look at how many defects across many diferent brands have been discovered just here at BITOG! I find that amazing.
Over 20 years ago I purchased a new car, it was the only NEW car I have ever owned. The vehicle was dealer serviced (GM) until the warranty expired at 60,000 KMS. From that point on I did all the maintenance (Fram fuel, air, oil and PCV's used) and all repairs on that vehicle until last year. With only 185,000 kms. I decided to take the car off the road, the body is falling apart. All I can say is that in those 20+ years Fram never let me down. They served their purpose, they kept me on the road. Over 20 years is good enough for me. I never implied that Fram is the best.
Times must be changing at Fram looked for oil filter for my wife Cruse & lo and behold the Fram filter look like the HENGST I got from the dealer made in the USA .No chinese junk this time.
Of course it's hard to be sure that the filter you purchased is Made in the USA.
I was reading over my girlfriend's new PureOne filter, and the box says, "Filter's Country of Origin may vary." There was no Made in the USA stamped on the filter, so I cannot be sure that even this filter is domestically produced.
I study public policy, and definitely advise to purchase USA whenever possible (for all intensive purposes, it is good for the economy). At least I can say that my Motorcraft filter says, "Made in USA."
I was reading over my girlfriend's new PureOne filter, and the box says, "Filter's Country of Origin may vary." There was no Made in the USA stamped on the filter, so I cannot be sure that even this filter is domestically produced.
I study public policy, and definitely advise to purchase USA whenever possible (for all intensive purposes, it is good for the economy). At least I can say that my Motorcraft filter says, "Made in USA."
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My silver XG is made in the USA :^)
Originally Posted By: Hyde244
I was reading over my girlfriend's new PureOne filter, and the box says, "Filter's Country of Origin may vary." There was no Made in the USA stamped on the filter, so I cannot be sure that even this filter is domestically produced.
Cartridge or spin-on filter?
I was reading over my girlfriend's new PureOne filter, and the box says, "Filter's Country of Origin may vary." There was no Made in the USA stamped on the filter, so I cannot be sure that even this filter is domestically produced.
Cartridge or spin-on filter?
I'm at 13,450 on the Ultra re-use. No ticking or any strange startup noises. Its been 0F a few times. Another couple of weeks and its out about at approx 14,500. Will cut it open.
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