Another MaxLife vs Honda DW-1 thread

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: RevelationLion
I'm currently running ML with Lubegard Platinum (1oz per qt) and Lubegard Red (1oz per qt) in my Accord; I did the double dose of Lubegard to help with torque converter shudder, which didn't really help, but the shifts are tight and super quick. I am pleased with ML, however, I'm wondering if a higher viscosity fluid, like Redline D4, would be more beneficial to a high mileage transmission?


Amsoil's Universal ATF (similar to D4) was probably the #1 recommended ATF for troublesome Honda ATs of that vintage. So, possible improvement but certainly wouldn't hurt.

 

[RevelationLion]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Originally Posted By: RevelationLion
I'm currently running ML with Lubegard Platinum (1oz per qt) and Lubegard Red (1oz per qt) in my Accord; I did the double dose of Lubegard to help with torque converter shudder, which didn't really help, but the shifts are tight and super quick. I am pleased with ML, however, I'm wondering if a higher viscosity fluid, like Redline D4, would be more beneficial to a high mileage transmission?


Amsoil's Universal ATF (similar to D4) was probably the #1 recommended ATF for troublesome Honda ATs of that vintage. So, possible improvement but certainly wouldn't hurt.


Thanks for the input. When you say that "Amsoil's Universal ATF (similar to D4) was probably the #1 recommended ATF", was it because of the higher viscosity or other reasons? ML is a fine synthetic ATF, but it may be too thin for high mileage transmissions.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: RevelationLion
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Originally Posted By: RevelationLion
I'm currently running ML with Lubegard Platinum (1oz per qt) and Lubegard Red (1oz per qt) in my Accord; I did the double dose of Lubegard to help with torque converter shudder, which didn't really help, but the shifts are tight and super quick. I am pleased with ML, however, I'm wondering if a higher viscosity fluid, like Redline D4, would be more beneficial to a high mileage transmission?


Amsoil's Universal ATF (similar to D4) was probably the #1 recommended ATF for troublesome Honda ATs of that vintage. So, possible improvement but certainly wouldn't hurt.


Thanks for the input. When you say that "Amsoil's Universal ATF (similar to D4) was probably the #1 recommended ATF", was it because of the higher viscosity or other reasons? ML is a fine synthetic ATF, but it may be too thin for high mileage transmissions.


At the time, it was the best option as Honda was having failures even with their fluid. MaxLife is probably fine as a better up front cost. However, IMO, if one wants to keep these Honda's for life may as well spend a little more on Amsoil or Red Line.

I believe there is a TSB indicating Amsoil's ATF was a recommended substitute from Honda itself. Someone else may need to confirm.

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
At the time, it was the best option as Honda was having failures even with their fluid. MaxLife is probably fine as a better up front cost. However, IMO, if one wants to keep these Honda's for life may as well spend a little more on Amsoil or Red Line.

I believe there is a TSB indicating Amsoil's ATF was a recommended substitute from Honda itself. Someone else may need to confirm.


Oh,my. I was not aware that Honda was having transmission problems with their current generation Odysseys. I could not find any Honda TSB recommending the use of aftermarket ATFs, but it does appear that part of the problem is premature break down of the DW-1. Below is a 10 page thread outlining the plight of some Odyssey owners. It seems that the only fix is a software update combined with frequent fluid change (every 15K).

http://www.odyclub.com/forums/54-2011-20...5-odysseys.html

I don't do brand bashing, but this does confirm that many brands do have an Achilles heel or two in their lineup, regardless of perceived reputation.

 

[ltslimjim]

Wasn't aware of more recent problems but it's not surprising. I converted to Amsoil's ATL "DW-1 replacement" in my Fit when I heard about how well their Universal ATF did replacing Z1 filled units that were failing in the late 90s/early 2000s models.

 

[Sayjac]

The linked Odyssey thread is an interesting read. And to see a member on a Honda specific forum say they may go to MaxLife when DW1 used up, oh the humanity.

Don't see that often.

Unlike Canada where DW1 has been labeled as full synthetic, the US version is not. So just speculating here, perhaps DW1 is shearing more quickly. That's what was found with Z1 and confirmed anecdotally on bitog. Perhaps DW1 not that major an upgrade from Z1?

I also noticed that the recommended Amsoil ATF SSFESATF has a starting viscosity very close to MaxLife Full Synthetic viscosity.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: Sayjac
The linked Odyssey thread is an interesting read. And to see a member on a Honda specific forum say they may go to MaxLife when DW1 used up, oh the humanity.

Don't see that often.

Unlike Canada where DW1 has been labeled as full synthetic, the US version is not. So just speculating here, perhaps DW1 is shearing more quickly. That's what was found with Z1 and confirmed anecdotally on bitog. Perhaps DW1 not that major an upgrade from Z1?

I also noticed that the recommended Amsoil ATF SSFESATF has a starting viscosity very close to MaxLife Full Synthetic viscosity.


http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/maxlife_atf.pdf

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g3110.pdf

Good point.

I think Honda may have found since Z1 would shear down to these levels anyway why not make the entire lube a different grade and more shear stable? Enter DW-1. It would be very interesting to find out if there were differences in VOA of the Canadian vs American DW-1. However, I don't think basic VOA can tell semi-syn from full synthetic. Not a bad reason to ditch DW-1 for Full Synthetic MaxLife.

Reading some of the older Odyssey threads before, some guys believed the poorly designed transmissions known to fail of older vintage would prefer the perhaps more shear stable Amsoil Multi-Vehicle ATF. IIRC, they believed the thicker starting fluid would help with torque converter operation. Of course, no one performed UOA to see the grade after service in those threads that I recall.

 

[2K2AcuraTL]

I switched both my Acuras to Petro-Can Duradrive ATF synth at the beginning of the summer.
My 02 TL was previously on Castrol for Asian synth ATF..since early spring and the trans was just screaming....
I did a 3x D&F.... the difference was significant right from the first drop.

My MDX loves it as well..
IF you can get hands on this stuff.. i like it..!!
my 2c
j.

 

[taztheman]

If I'm I only changing the fluid with Valvoline maxlife will it be ok to only do 1 or two changes? The reason I am asking is because I assume the fluid in the transmission is Honda dw1 and the fluid isn't to bad I just want to do some preventive maintenance.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted by taztheman
If I'm I only changing the fluid with Valvoline maxlife will it be ok to only do 1 or two changes? The reason I am asking is because I assume the fluid in the transmission is Honda dw1 and the fluid isn't to bad I just want to do some preventive maintenance.


Yes, that is fine

 

[ctechbob]

Originally Posted by taztheman
If I'm I only changing the fluid with Valvoline maxlife will it be ok to only do 1 or two changes? The reason I am asking is because I assume the fluid in the transmission is Honda dw1 and the fluid isn't to bad I just want to do some preventive maintenance.



Some is better than none. If your CRV hasn't had it changed since new it will be Z1 and not DW1. The DW1 is a more robust fluid over the old Z1, so you might want to think about doing at least the 3 D&F procedure to get most of the Z1 out of it. Even if you do 2 now and one later.

 

[72te27]

Originally Posted by mclasser
So both my Hondas are due for an ATF D&F. I'm usually a Honda ATF only guy but MaxLife has performed so well in my Infiniti that I'm considering using it this time around. DW-1 overall has smooth shifts but the downshifting can sometimes be a little clunky, like when slowing down for a traffic light but then accelerating again. Not sure if that's a Honda A/T characteristic but I've noticed it in both my Hondas.



To the OP; you don't have a downshifting problem or a fluid problem. Most automatic transmissions have "power paths", not gears. Honda auto's, otoh, have actual gear sets, like manual tranny's. Though they have torque converters and automatic shifting, they still downshift through the gears, with the accompanying engine load and a little rpm rise. Thus, the "clunky" downshifting. Kinda of a cool design, actually. Almost an auto shifting manual.

 

[brages]

Originally Posted by 72te27

To the OP; you don't have a downshifting problem or a fluid problem. Most automatic transmissions have "power paths", not gears. Honda auto's, otoh, have actual gear sets, like manual tranny's. Though they have torque converters and automatic shifting, they still downshift through the gears, with the accompanying engine load and a little rpm rise. Thus, the "clunky" downshifting. Kinda of a cool design, actually. Almost an auto shifting manual.


I hear this "automated manual" talk about Honda transmissions periodically, but I believe that the only real difference between Honda (pre-2017) and everyone else is that Honda uses gears on multiple shafts rather than using planetary gears and keeping everything on one axis. But the shifting is still accomplished with hydraulic pressure activating clutch packs. It's not really that much like a manual transmission. There is no reason for flares between shifts or for the shifting to be any more clunky than a planetary automatic.

 

[ctechbob]

Originally Posted by brages
Originally Posted by 72te27

To the OP; you don't have a downshifting problem or a fluid problem. Most automatic transmissions have "power paths", not gears. Honda auto's, otoh, have actual gear sets, like manual tranny's. Though they have torque converters and automatic shifting, they still downshift through the gears, with the accompanying engine load and a little rpm rise. Thus, the "clunky" downshifting. Kinda of a cool design, actually. Almost an auto shifting manual.


I hear this "automated manual" talk about Honda transmissions periodically, but I believe that the only real difference between Honda (pre-2017) and everyone else is that Honda uses gears on multiple shafts rather than using planetary gears and keeping everything on one axis. But the shifting is still accomplished with hydraulic pressure activating clutch packs. It's not really that much like a manual transmission. There is no reason for flares between shifts or for the shifting to be any more clunky than a planetary automatic.


Of course, I can't find the post now, but there are some issues that prevent certain automatics from performing a smooth shift. Things like the gears they are shifting between being on the same shaft, so you have an instance where both gears have to be disengaged for a split second or you end up binding up the transmission, so you walk the fine line between a flare and a jerk. I think it was clinebarger that explained that once, but that's why certain designs can sometimes feel 'not normal' for an automatic trans.