then why take a chance.. Stick with DW1....Its not like you change your fluid every 3000 wiles...
Honda DW-1 Alternative
- Thread starter noslofivoh
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If they keep changing the formula that tells me that they are correcting issues with it. If you feel OK then use it... I would stick to OEM Honda fluid for a tranny...CVT and dual pump fluid and coolant...Thats me. I wont take the chance...Good luck with your choice...
As I'm not due for d&f yet, have not used in for my own vehicles, yet. But, as noted have used it in neighbor's 04 Civic about 6 months ago now. When time for d&f plan to use ML, same as I have. Same as kschachn. No worries for me. Separately, have used the Valvoline dedicated CVT fluid in a Nissan.
Have a citing and/or link to the "changed significantly" add pack? Afaik, no VOA showing that add pack has been posted here or on the spreadsheet pinned at the top of this subforum. Be interested in seeing the :"significantly" changed add pack you mention.
As accurately noted, all the aftermarket for Honda DW1/Z1 pinned at top have different add packs. Even the ones that promote single use Honda application. None are identical to DW1 or each other, but used by members here.
I've gone round and round in my head on this one, but IIRC absolutely nothing has a composition based on test reports that compares to DW-1. Maybe that's why DW-1 sucks...because yes its life span is generally terrible. But, when I can do a drain and fill every 25k for around $40, which for me means every 3 years or so, it's not worth experimenting with something else.
Pretty much what I've done using MLFSMV on my Hondas since joining this site. And saved lots of money, first in place of the poorly regarded Honda OEM Z-1, later DW1. Tells me, perhaps the key is more doing regular d&fs of the trans, than using the OEM fluid.
The irony is, so many people spout off "oil is cheap, engines are not" or "it's cheap insurance" but save $10-20 by using non-OEM fluid ? Go for it !
yup....The irony is, so many people spout off "oil is cheap, engines are not" or "it's cheap insurance" but save $10-20 by using non-OEM fluid ? Go for it !
I have been yes. I have used OEM fluid once or twice in the Honda but never in any of my other vehicles including my old BMW and several other vehicles I help maintain.The irony is, so many people spout off "oil is cheap, engines are not" or "it's cheap insurance" but save $10-20 by using non-OEM fluid ? Go for it !
Perhaps I’ll see some of these supposed dire consequences in the next million miles or so.
I’m the other guy on this forum who experienced Honda AT degradation after going to maxlife. It’s been a while, but the unit had 60k on it and shifted great. 10-12k into the maxlife it had developed a “sticking gear” problem where it wouldn’t come out of 2nd, and when it finally did it was a traumatically hard shift. When it got to that point I did 2-3 drain/fills with OE fluid. The transmission got somewhat better, never back to proper behavior but was more or less driveable. It stopped getting worse.
Pretty good indication that ML wasn’t good in that vehicle. What I don’t know is what was in before it - it was a 3-year used CRV when we bought it, so there’s a chance it may have been touched previously.
So, I won’t touch ML for a Honda. Amsoil, however, absolutely without question. Have used it in *many.* no issues ever, great stuff.
Pretty good indication that ML wasn’t good in that vehicle. What I don’t know is what was in before it - it was a 3-year used CRV when we bought it, so there’s a chance it may have been touched previously.
So, I won’t touch ML for a Honda. Amsoil, however, absolutely without question. Have used it in *many.* no issues ever, great stuff.
No it’s not. Nowhere close to anything like that. One has no idea what may have caused one isolated “incident” even if the person is being truthful about their experience.
That’s drawing a universal conclusion on an outlier which is about as useless as it gets.
I have 'gone for it' using MaxLife FSMV. Couple+ 100 thousand miles later, no regrets, no issues. And, the saving added up over time, been a nice bonus on top of it.
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I don't have any recommendations for others' transmissions but will add my experience just as a data point.
My '12 Odyssey (5 spd trans) had the original DW1 for the first few years of life, at which point I realized the shifts were getting sloppy. This was not entirely surprising given that I frequently towed a boat. I then did 3X drain/fill with DW1 which performed well for about a year. I then dug into the available info and decided to switch to full synthetic. Since then, I have used Pennzoil, Maxlife, Amalie, Castrol, and BITOG's favorite whipping boy, Lucas (all in the LV flavor), based on sale price and availability. All of these performed pretty much the same as DW1 but lasted longer with towing. Now, at 160k miles, the trans still shifts like new. So, I doubt any of the multi vehicle formulas directly caused problems in a Honda trans as long as the manufacturer recommends it for DW1 applications; if mine implodes at some point I will eat crow.
That said, no one should ever use a fluid - whether ATF, gear oil, motor oil, etc. - unless they have full confidence in the product. Life gives us enough important things to worry about, and lube choices should not be one of them.
My '12 Odyssey (5 spd trans) had the original DW1 for the first few years of life, at which point I realized the shifts were getting sloppy. This was not entirely surprising given that I frequently towed a boat. I then did 3X drain/fill with DW1 which performed well for about a year. I then dug into the available info and decided to switch to full synthetic. Since then, I have used Pennzoil, Maxlife, Amalie, Castrol, and BITOG's favorite whipping boy, Lucas (all in the LV flavor), based on sale price and availability. All of these performed pretty much the same as DW1 but lasted longer with towing. Now, at 160k miles, the trans still shifts like new. So, I doubt any of the multi vehicle formulas directly caused problems in a Honda trans as long as the manufacturer recommends it for DW1 applications; if mine implodes at some point I will eat crow.
That said, no one should ever use a fluid - whether ATF, gear oil, motor oil, etc. - unless they have full confidence in the product. Life gives us enough important things to worry about, and lube choices should not be one of them.
While I follow the above advice, to clarify except for a Honda dealer service at 62K miles, I have never used Honda branded DW-1 fluid. In my Ridgeline, I have used Aisin DW-1, Idemitsu Type H and Eneos DW-1 for the last three drain and fills. Each one has worked nicely without a hiccup. My case of 12 Eneos quarts was a special bargain because I bought it just after Eneos changed its packaging and paid only $3.50 a quart with free shipping. My D&F is now less than $14. If these brands are engineered to meet or exceed DW-1 specs compared to a multi-vehicle product, it gives me confidence to use them.
I use only Honda Brand DW-1, ps fluid, and dual pump II fluid, I have never taken a chance in a Honda. The cost is more from the dealer, sure, but cheap insurance for me. I have used Maxlife ATF in GM's, Volvo, and Older Mercedes several times w/o issues. Mobil 1 ATF is now in my Ford spec Mercon V works great.
Can't go wrong with DW-1 anyways
Can't go wrong with DW-1 anyways
Sure it is.
A. Vehicle is fine
B. A change is made. Vehicle begins getting worse.
C. The change is reversed. Vehicle is improved.
While I stated that the prior history is unknown and there could be other factors, the ABC here does indeed provide a data point, even if the point is just singular. Calling it “as useless as it gets” seems pretty short-sighted.
I always thought this was enough proof, but not on BITOG. I'm not smart enough to understand why it's not enough evidence.
Because we are discussing complex systems. A few examples are anecdotes, many examples are evidence... Unless it happens to me, then it's iron clad proof
So, I mean, statistically speaking he’s probably correct, the low rate of a couple of outliers is, well very low. But calling it useless also means he doesn’t understand the problem, it just writes off an area that doesn’t fit into that line of thinking, whether statistically important or not.
If I’m a chemist at maxlife, it’s very useful information because it demonstrates a potential costly problem with their product, or disclaimer issues such as mixing with someone else’s fluid. Perhaps another lubricant was used in mine before-hand, which didn’t work well with ML. I don’t know. But the experience is factual, and had I not flushed it out was going to be a personal statistic of $4500.
If I’m a chemist at maxlife, it’s very useful information because it demonstrates a potential costly problem with their product, or disclaimer issues such as mixing with someone else’s fluid. Perhaps another lubricant was used in mine before-hand, which didn’t work well with ML. I don’t know. But the experience is factual, and had I not flushed it out was going to be a personal statistic of $4500.
No arguments from me. If your transmission didn't work correctly with it, then changing it was absolutely the right thing to do.
My only experience with Maxlife ended in a blown transmission. but I'm 100% confident that the problem was existing wear and a teenage driver, not the fluid.
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