Amtrak Cascades derailment near Tacoma

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Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Its accidents like this (and bus accidents) the operator has to be put in jail for negligence.


Do you mean Amtrak or the engineer? The investigation and black box data will show what happened. Also, sabotage cannot be ruled out here.


Engineer
 
Approximately 80mph in a 30mph zone according to reports of the black box data.

Not sure what the proper term is for the person who controls the vehicle (train); it is the engineer? Conductor? Other?

Regardless, what was underlying cause(s)?
- did the person fall asleep?
- did the person think he/she was in a different place and not recognize the situation until too late?
- was the person's attention diverted? (cell phone, food, conversation with other?)
- were the person's controls working properly?
- was the appropriate speed control marking (sign) in place? (had vandals removed the signage?)
- was there an equipment failure that either accelerated the train, or prohibited it's slowing?

Time will play most of this out for us; patience is the key.
 
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All kinds of equipment have zone management systems these days … might be time for trains … unlike a car that might need to speed up to avoid a collision … not sure that applies to trains …
 
Reported there's NO positive train control on that section of track-which would have automatically limited the speed before the curve, which was 81.1 MPH (via Amtrak's Track A Train system). A horrible mistake.
 
Here come the lawyers ... but hope they give the families and investigators a bit of time …
 
Yep - black box indicates over 80 mph in a 30 mph section of track. No wonder it went off the rails. It will be interesting what other contributing factors are at play here - such as other distractions in the cab.

Positive Train Control has been repeatedly delayed for years and years. The initial law requiring implementation by 2015 was signed into law in 2008. The deadline was extended to December 31, 2018 in October of 2015.

The fact that a newly inaugurated service in a corridor that was recently improved expressly for this service does not have Positive Train Control is a travesty. While the rulemaking process and retrofitting process has been long, tortuous, and difficult, there is no excuse in my mind for this to happen in this case.
 
My guess is the engineer was distracted, likely by a cell phone. Doesn't seem to matter to people that are running dangerous equipment to keep safety in mind and take their eyes off the dang phone.

In the last month I have seen operators of these machines on the cell phone while at the wheel (besides cars):
-tri-axle dump truck
-snow plow (while plowing the road)
-backhoe at a construction site
-3 truck drivers (all pulling loaded trailers)
-school bus driver texting (friends daughter took video of her bus driver and submitted to bus company)
 
Wow... Holy cow.

My dumb donkey co workers are guilty of this has well... Cell phones= ZERO situational awareness at work. Not remotely good at all.
 
I had a forklift driver who was obsessed with getting into fights with his girlfriend on the phone.

One day he was bringing in a diesel generator, lost his focus, and started rolling backward down the steel ramp that goes up into the warehouse. He panicked, and instead of getting both feet down on the brakes, he tried to accelerate out of it. He BARELY missed dumping the generator as he flew backwards down the ramp.

Needless to say, I have him his walking papers immediately. Forget the liability, forget the lost business, forget the expense of damage. Anyone ever dies on my watch, and I know I'll just shut everything down, pay severance, pay compensation, disappear, and never speak to another human being again.
 
Originally Posted By: cjcride
Maybe passenger trains should have 2 engineers in the cab.


Don't a lot of freight trains have 2? Maybe I'm thinking of something else...
 
Originally Posted By: cjcride
Maybe passenger trains should have 2 engineers in the cab.


Or invest in 21-st century technologies. They claimed at the time that these are state of the art locomotives with safety features to be available in 2018.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Its accidents like this (and bus accidents) the operator has to be put in jail for negligence.


Do you mean Amtrak or the engineer? The investigation and black box data will show what happened. Also, sabotage cannot be ruled out here.


Engineer
If the engineer is in the power unit at the back of the train, he surely needs to rely on his conductor on lookout to relay special conditions if there were any. Perhaps there was mis- or late communication about the appriopirate speed for the curve or track conditions, maybe even panic braking?

Originally Posted By: cjcride
Maybe passenger trains should have 2 engineers in the cab.

In freight we had two-man crews for long hauls, EN and CO. But in that case, a power unit it always at the front, they never 'push' freight on hauls. The passenger GO trains around here push and pull just lik the Amtrak, but at much lower speeds around curves.
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
My guess is the engineer was distracted, likely by a cell phone. Doesn't seem to matter to people that are running dangerous equipment to keep safety in mind and take their eyes off the dang phone.

In the last month I have seen operators of these machines on the cell phone while at the wheel (besides cars):
-tri-axle dump truck
-snow plow (while plowing the road)
-backhoe at a construction site
-3 truck drivers (all pulling loaded trailers)
-school bus driver texting (friends daughter took video of her bus driver and submitted to bus company)

So far, their name hasn't been published nor their phone record. I'm already suspicious though for such a stupid error as this. After all, it's not the first time.

To your second point, I whole-heartily agree. WAAAY to much of this digital OCD going on. I just passed an idiot on the freeway, in the middle lane, young female with the phone in her lap, looking down, driving slower than traffic, and blocking the lane.

People are indeed addicted. They exhibit so little self-control & awareness. Totally self-absorbed. "Mirror, mirror [in my hand]...."

Fakebook? FacePlant.

This is incredibly dangerous and out-of-control.
 
I can't believe the engineer(s) driving this train didn't know about this 30 MPH curve in the rail system. This was a maiden run with paying customers and was all hyped up by Sound Transit, so I'd think the guys driving this train knew exactly the route they were taking. Engineer is thinking: "Let's cruise at 80 MPH and not worry about the upcoming 30 MPH curve." ... wow, people are stupid.

NTSB live update going on right now on TV. The NTSB hasen't interviewed the train engineer(s) yet, but will in the next day or two. That result should be interesting.
 
Such a costly blunder from the lives lost, injuries and ruined equipment. So it was a double-ended DP train and not a one unit pusher. Interviews and investigation should be very interesting. IDK what the deal is with Titanic Syndrome but you'd think a maiden voyage could be taken a bit more seriously in 2017.
 
Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Positive Train Control has been repeatedly delayed for years and years. The initial law requiring implementation by 2015 was signed into law in 2008. The deadline was extended to December 31, 2018 in October of 2015.


Larger crashes within a short timespan helped here, and all significant rail lines were equipped with a PTC system

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jokela_rail_accident
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyv%C3%A4skyl%C3%A4_rail_accident
 
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