Amsoil 100:1 in Lawn Boy Mower

[FLATTRACKER]

All this talk about corrosion with redline got me worried since thats all i have run for the last five years. so i went out to the shed and got my homelite two stroke water pump which is five years old and has never run on anything but allsport. I use this pump to irrigate pasture and pump rain water out of the pool in the winter. Homelite is about the bottom of the food chain for two strokes but this pump has set in the shed for eight months unused so i thought it would be a good canidate for corrosion. The cylinder fins were white with oxidation and the sparkplug was rusty obviously it had had condensation exsposure.
pulled the bottom end cover off everything inside looked new with a coat of red oil on it no corrosion at all sorry for the lenghth of this post.

 

[ben walker]

Thats good to hear flatracker. maybe allsport is not ester based, most general app two cycle oils are not.

[ November 28, 2002, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: ben walker ]

 

[Pablo]

The correct ester balance is the key. Not too high ignition temp, combined with the high lubricity. Indeed that is the benefit and why esters are used in racing oils. I wouldn't store lawn/yard/etc 2-stroke equipment with the Series 2000 2 cycle RACING Oil (TCR) as premix even though it does contain some corosion inhibitors. Again this stuff is esters with little inhibitors, drying agents/cosolvents, Amsoil has enough wins under their belt at the national level to prove this stuff works.

That said the ATC regular 2 stroke oil is blend of synthetic oils and contains several anti-rust agents - I store my chainsaw, weedwhacker, grandma's wheel chair (just kidding, she gets the Series 2000

) etc with this premix - I don't get real precise with my measurements - 80:1, 90:1? close enough - the crap runs, doesn't smog the skeeters, nor foul the plugs!

 

[ben walker]

What wins are you talking about?

 

[Pablo]

Mike LaRocco in Supercross (250), Travis Preston (125) (2000 and 2002)

Snocross (Justin Tate/DJ Eckstrom) and various other snowmobile racing events...

 

[Bror Jace]

Well, this is a great little discussion. Lots of neats bits of info and experiences being hashed out.

I have to admit that when I first saw that Red Line, a known user of polyol esters and supplier to sports car racers, had a line of 2-stroke oils, it didn't seem to "fit."

Like ben, I wonder why something like polyol, which resists high temps, would make a clean burning 2-stroke oil.

But then again, I don't know everything about combustion chemistry.

--- Bror Jace

 

[ben walker]

Pablo, Just because someone is sponsored by amsoil does not mean the use amsoil oil. Larocco uses what Honda HRC tells the team to run in his HRC motor. Preston and the sled guys might actually use it, but in reality that has no bearing on real life as a 125cc supercorss engine is rebuilt every race and pro 440 sled motor about the same.

 

[Pablo]

Ben - I know what you are saying about sponors and products, but I have it from a couple sources that they actually use the product. Here's my problem with sponors and products - who's to say that product helped them win the race (or not)....but at least with these pre-mix oils - folks would know if you were fouling plugs!

 

[FLATTRACKER]

BEN you are having corrosion trouble with so many differnt oils makes me wonder if your gas may contain alcohol . we do a test on our gas in the ultralight community called the olive jar test.it doesnt have to be an olive jar any straight sided glass jar will work. put about an inch of water in the bottom and draw a line on the side with a marker even with the top of the water finish filling with gas put the lid on and shake. the water will mix with the alcohol in the gas if any is present and settle to bottom if the water line is above the mark after it settles the gas contains alcohol.

 

[ben walker]

MI does not have RFG and I do not use fuel with alky in it. Very bad idea for a two stroke.

 

[ben walker]

Anyone that fouls a plug with todays two cycle oils can only blame themselves. I have used the same plug in my dirt bike for the whole season this year. provided the carb is tuned properly and the heat range is correct there is no reason to foul plugs.

 

[Bror Jace]

FLATTRACKER, what kind of ultralight do you have? It wouldn't take much prodding for me to pick one up. I am seriously thinking of taking trike lessons at the Schenectady, NY airport. Maybe I will as soon as the weather clears in the spring.

Yes, if I was owning and maintaining a 'light, I'd want to use the absolute best 2-cycle oil available, cost no object. These engines are run at constant, high RPMs for up to an hour at a time ... maybe even more. And I can't imagine that they are cheap to rebuild properly. Remember, we're not talkin' your average sled, here. So, if Amsoil, Red Line or Synergen builds a better (liquid) mouse trap, I'd be willing to pay $5 for 12 ounces ... perhaps even double that. In the scheme of things, that premium is insignificant.

Ben Wa pointed out that he uses Phillips Injex which he can buy for something like $10 per gallon. Even at 32:1 it runs clean and he has no problem with fouling. For his business and the volume of oil (in 2-stroke fuel) he goes through, his choice might make infinite sense. Correct any or all of those statements as needed, if you like.

However, for specialized applications (and even some rather mundane ones), "good enough" is not merely good enough. This site is dedicated for those willing to go that extra mile to pursue the "ultimate" oil for each application ... engine, tranny and 2-stroke.

So, I'd ask others to bear with those of us who are looking for that "Lost Lube of the Covenant" ... and are not so easily dissuaded from one exotic elixir or another.

--- Bror Jace

 

[FLATTRACKER]

BROR I have an Quicksilver MXL CLIPPED WING SPORT.
If your gonna fly dont skimp on the training it could save your life. Back to oil the allsport has given me really good service and really isnt very expensive if you buy it by the gallon. I get it for 18 dollars a gallon by the case.I got started on it by a guy who cuts powerline right of way with a helicopter with a 503 rotax powered cutter suspended from the copter. these 503's run at wide open throttle and their service life went from approximately 200hrs to over 1000 hrs when they switched from a petrolium product to redline.

 

[ben walker]

Bror, we use injex at the factory reccomended 50:1 ratio in our outboards. I use Mobil Mx2T in all my other aircooled and liquid cooled non boat motors. I have found very few oils that will burn as clean, and protect as well at any cost. Add to that the fcat that it only cost about 3.50 a pint and it is a no brainer in my mind.
BTW your ultralight application is not nearly as hard on a oil as some other uses I can think of. Constant, relativley low rpm from a not highly tuned rotax motor is not to otugh on a oil. Heck, I even seen something on a nother website where the ultrlite guys where using penzoil tc aircooled dino oil.

 

[ben walker]

I should also add that I get the same or less amount of wear with mx2t as I got when I used redline two cycle racing oil. Mx2t is also cleaner burning when not ran to the max.

 

[Bror Jace]

FLATTRACKER, I did a quick search. Your 'light looks nice. I poke around in a few ultralight aircraft magazines about every other year and last I looked, a good trike seemed like the place to start ... for me. Maybe I'll take some lessons and it'll help me better focus on a more defined path. Gotch'ya on the training. I'm no foolhearty yahoo.

"... service life went from approximately 200hrs to over 1000hrs when they switched from a petroleum product to Red Line."

Care to name names on that petroleum? We like to be specific in these here parts. Nearly ever major company is represented here on this forum and as long as everyone's relatively polite, no one gets their feathers too ruffled.

ben wa: "I use Mobil Mx2T in all my other aircooled and liquid cooled non boat motors. I have found very few oils that will burn as clean, and protect as well at any cost. Add to that the fcat that it only cost about $3.50 a pint and it is a no brainer in my mind."

OK, but the last time I bought some Red Line All-Sport it was a mere $3.29 per pint (16oz bottle) ... and that was the price delivered at my door. No tax, shipping included. I suppose I could go to one of the local cycle/outdoor suppliers in this area like Seymour's but I doubt I would get MX2T any cheaper there. Currently, I know of no other source for this stuff. Many of the pure cycle shops here are big on Golden Spectro and I've heard too many bad things about that stuff to seriously consider it for anything I own.

"I should also add that I get the same or less amount of wear with MX2T as I got when I used Red Line two cycle racing oil. MX2T is also cleaner burning when not ran to the max."

I'd still like to see a straight comparison of these other oils against All-Sport and not merely their racing oil which is a somewhat finicky, special-purpose oil. If you lived closer, I'd buy you a bottle.

--- Bror Jace

 

[ben walker]

Bror, I am very confident that mx2t will surpass allsport in all areas. keep in mind that all sport is redlines bargain oil. You can get MX2t shipped to your door by www.avlube.com for under $3.50 per pint or buy it at any Autozone in the country for $3.50.
Your right on the golden spectro stuff. Very dirty although there newest lubbes are better than the old black bottle stuff.

 

[Bror Jace]

"I am very confident that MX2T will surpass All Sport in all areas. keep in mind that all sport is Red Line's bargain oil."

Bargain oil?

I see that they have a few which cost more, their Racing and Karting oil ($5.50 per pint/$39 per gallon), but the All-Sport, Snowmobile and Watercraft oils are all the same price. And that price ($3.29 per pint/$24 per gallon) seems middle of the road.

Red Line's "bargain" oil seems like it would be their Smokeless oil ... at $2.69 per pint. Since I'm not hyper-sensitive to smoke and don't operate any 2-cycle engines indoors, I'd never use this stuff.

"You can get MX2t shipped to your door by www.avlube.com for under $3.50 per pint or buy it at any Autozone in the country for $3.50."

Most of the Autozones in this area have closed down due to strong regional competition but I know where there is one still open. I'll have to scope it out. Because I have so few 2-stroke applications, I usually don't shop for the stuff.

"You're right on the Golden Spectro stuff. Very dirty although their newest lubes are better than the old black bottle stuff."

I wasn't speaking only about their 2 cycle oils ... but also their crankcase oils, etc ... I know a father & son motocross team (my brother's inlaws) who got tired of burning up their bike and switched to Motul ... with apparently glowing results.

Even if Golden Spectro is improving their oils now ... it's LONG overdue.

And I have raised holding a grudge against underperforming companies to an art form.

--- Bror Jace

 

[ben walker]

Motul makes very good oils. They are abit spendy though.

 

[FLATTRACKER]

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHO MAKES STIHL'S 2STROKE OILS AND WHETHER THERE HT OIL IS PETROLEUM OR A BLEND.
THANKS