I'm getting ahead of myself.....
First thing you need to do is check the Forward Drum "Sealing Ring Lands" for damage. Here's a pic.
First thing you need to do is check the Forward Drum "Sealing Ring Lands" for damage. Here's a pic.
4l80e rebuild on a suburban
- Thread starter kawan
- Start date
I don't care for the Trans Go 4th clutch bolts, They round off & get stuck.....The OE bolt is fine if torqued to spec.
I recommend replacing the Center Support & 4th Clutch bolt ANY time they are removed.
You can use the old center support bolt for a nifty tool!
I recommend replacing the Center Support & 4th Clutch bolt ANY time they are removed.
You can use the old center support bolt for a nifty tool!
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what about this ?
"forward piston with a Steel/Bonded '97" - Are the 97 year forward piston come in all steel/bonded only or do they come in aluminum as well? I tried searching for them but they do not mention if it aluminum or steel. I assume they will fit for the 95 4l80e.
"forward piston with a Steel/Bonded '97" - Are the 97 year forward piston come in all steel/bonded only or do they come in aluminum as well? I tried searching for them but they do not mention if it aluminum or steel. I assume they will fit for the 95 4l80e.
Originally Posted By: kawan
what about this ?
"forward piston with a Steel/Bonded '97" - Are the 97 year forward piston come in all steel/bonded only or do they come in aluminum as well? I tried searching for them but they do not mention if it aluminum or steel. I assume they will fit for the 95 4l80e.
Yes, The '97 & up Steel/bonded piston will fit your '95 Forward Drum, Just make sure to get a Forward Piston as it IS different than a Direct piston. There are 2 differences in the pistons........
1. The "counterbore" is a different diameter, This is not a big deal as I usually omit the lip seal in the drum anyway.
2. The Forward piston's work surface is taller than the Direct piston.....This can cause the wave plate to slip under the relief cut in the drum which would prevent the clutch from applying if you were to install a direct piston in your forward drum.
The steel pistons are marked "Forward" & "Direct".
***You can run a aluminum TH400 Forward Piston in your 4L80E, But they are expensive & add little to no benefit to a "static" clutch like the forwards.
what about this ?
"forward piston with a Steel/Bonded '97" - Are the 97 year forward piston come in all steel/bonded only or do they come in aluminum as well? I tried searching for them but they do not mention if it aluminum or steel. I assume they will fit for the 95 4l80e.
Yes, The '97 & up Steel/bonded piston will fit your '95 Forward Drum, Just make sure to get a Forward Piston as it IS different than a Direct piston. There are 2 differences in the pistons........
1. The "counterbore" is a different diameter, This is not a big deal as I usually omit the lip seal in the drum anyway.
2. The Forward piston's work surface is taller than the Direct piston.....This can cause the wave plate to slip under the relief cut in the drum which would prevent the clutch from applying if you were to install a direct piston in your forward drum.
The steel pistons are marked "Forward" & "Direct".
***You can run a aluminum TH400 Forward Piston in your 4L80E, But they are expensive & add little to no benefit to a "static" clutch like the forwards.
Originally Posted By: kawan
so all 97 & up forward pistons will be steel bonded?
If so I can order it without worrying that I will end up getting an aluminum version.
Yes sir!
I doubt the early 4L80E aluminum pistons are being produced new as they are considered a "hard part" as the Lip Seals are serviceable.
The steel pistons are considered a "soft part" as the lip seals are bonded to the piston.
The GM part number for the piston you need is 24204957.
so all 97 & up forward pistons will be steel bonded?
If so I can order it without worrying that I will end up getting an aluminum version.
Yes sir!
I doubt the early 4L80E aluminum pistons are being produced new as they are considered a "hard part" as the Lip Seals are serviceable.
The steel pistons are considered a "soft part" as the lip seals are bonded to the piston.
The GM part number for the piston you need is 24204957.
That part # is a big help!
I will order these parts and resume with the build.
I measured the 2 washers at the rear ( where I am supposed to rollerize) they are 0.080 & 0.060. My rear end play is around 15 thousandths (15 mils). From earlier readings it is mentioned I can tighten this up if i want.
I got this link from a youtube video for rollerizing that has links to parts. But this link has a wide range for the shims (0.010"- 0.095"). I might have to ping the seller for the actual shims he is including.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071VB...c814c1032a2ddb6
I will order these parts and resume with the build.
I measured the 2 washers at the rear ( where I am supposed to rollerize) they are 0.080 & 0.060. My rear end play is around 15 thousandths (15 mils). From earlier readings it is mentioned I can tighten this up if i want.
I got this link from a youtube video for rollerizing that has links to parts. But this link has a wide range for the shims (0.010"- 0.095"). I might have to ping the seller for the actual shims he is including.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071VB...c814c1032a2ddb6
Originally Posted By: kawan
My rear end play is around 15 thousandths (15 mils). From earlier readings it is mentioned I can tighten this up if i want.
I'd not seen this this gearbox neither do I know the rough dimensions of its various components and its specs in manuals.
But 15 thous end play is simply excessive.
My personal preference is to keep it tight at 4-6 thous clearance i.e 0.100-0.150 mm, of course 10 thous should be fine too.
My rear end play is around 15 thousandths (15 mils). From earlier readings it is mentioned I can tighten this up if i want.
I'd not seen this this gearbox neither do I know the rough dimensions of its various components and its specs in manuals.
But 15 thous end play is simply excessive.
My personal preference is to keep it tight at 4-6 thous clearance i.e 0.100-0.150 mm, of course 10 thous should be fine too.
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Couple more questions for you.
I got raybestos frictions when I bought the rebuild kit. Should I just stick with it or replace with borg warner high energy frictions. I cannot seem to find them. there si a link on ebay but it says "Borg Warner 4L80E Friction Module w/High Energy 0.070" Int. (96-Up) 34035KIT" so I am not sure if this will work with with 95 year model. Or do you have a kit #?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Borg-Warner-4L80E-Friction-Module-w-High-Energy-0-070-Int-96-Up-34035KIT/292346611208?hash=item4411374608:g:Fo8AAOSwdjdaGuTh&vxp=mtr
And where can I get the heavy duty intermediate snap ring? Would the following link for a TH400 heavy duty intermediate snap ring work on a 1995 4l80e?
http://www.ckperformance.com/View/TH400-HEAVY-DUTY-INTERMEDIATE-CLUTCH-SNAP-RING
Thanks
I got raybestos frictions when I bought the rebuild kit. Should I just stick with it or replace with borg warner high energy frictions. I cannot seem to find them. there si a link on ebay but it says "Borg Warner 4L80E Friction Module w/High Energy 0.070" Int. (96-Up) 34035KIT" so I am not sure if this will work with with 95 year model. Or do you have a kit #?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Borg-Warner-4L80E-Friction-Module-w-High-Energy-0-070-Int-96-Up-34035KIT/292346611208?hash=item4411374608:g:Fo8AAOSwdjdaGuTh&vxp=mtr
And where can I get the heavy duty intermediate snap ring? Would the following link for a TH400 heavy duty intermediate snap ring work on a 1995 4l80e?
http://www.ckperformance.com/View/TH400-HEAVY-DUTY-INTERMEDIATE-CLUTCH-SNAP-RING
Thanks
Originally Posted By: kawan
GM specs for rear end play is 5 mils to 25 mils. So I am in the middle of the specs. But I will likely tighten my to the low end of the range (if possible with the shims I get)
When you rollerize the Output, The rear unit end-play changes.....I like .003"-.008".
GM specs for rear end play is 5 mils to 25 mils. So I am in the middle of the specs. But I will likely tighten my to the low end of the range (if possible with the shims I get)
When you rollerize the Output, The rear unit end-play changes.....I like .003"-.008".
Originally Posted By: kawan
Couple more questions for you.
I got raybestos frictions when I bought the rebuild kit. Should I just stick with it or replace with borg warner high energy frictions. I cannot seem to find them. there si a link on ebay but it says "Borg Warner 4L80E Friction Module w/High Energy 0.070" Int. (96-Up) 34035KIT" so I am not sure if this will work with with 95 year model. Or do you have a kit #?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Borg-Warner-4L80E-Friction-Module-w-High-Energy-0-070-Int-96-Up-34035KIT/292346611208?hash=item4411374608:g:Fo8AAOSwdjdaGuTh&vxp=mtr
And where can I get the heavy duty intermediate snap ring? Would the following link for a TH400 heavy duty intermediate snap ring work on a 1995 4l80e?
http://www.ckperformance.com/View/TH400-HEAVY-DUTY-INTERMEDIATE-CLUTCH-SNAP-RING
Thanks
The TH400 Intermediate snap ring will fit your unit.
The High Energy Raybestos frictions are fine, If you got a kit with paper Forward/Intermediate/Directs.....Return them & get a High Energy friction module.
Here's a picture of the Borg Warners I use, "WIT" Whatever It Takes has them in stock.
Couple more questions for you.
I got raybestos frictions when I bought the rebuild kit. Should I just stick with it or replace with borg warner high energy frictions. I cannot seem to find them. there si a link on ebay but it says "Borg Warner 4L80E Friction Module w/High Energy 0.070" Int. (96-Up) 34035KIT" so I am not sure if this will work with with 95 year model. Or do you have a kit #?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Borg-Warner-4L80E-Friction-Module-w-High-Energy-0-070-Int-96-Up-34035KIT/292346611208?hash=item4411374608:g:Fo8AAOSwdjdaGuTh&vxp=mtr
And where can I get the heavy duty intermediate snap ring? Would the following link for a TH400 heavy duty intermediate snap ring work on a 1995 4l80e?
http://www.ckperformance.com/View/TH400-HEAVY-DUTY-INTERMEDIATE-CLUTCH-SNAP-RING
Thanks
The TH400 Intermediate snap ring will fit your unit.
The High Energy Raybestos frictions are fine, If you got a kit with paper Forward/Intermediate/Directs.....Return them & get a High Energy friction module.
Here's a picture of the Borg Warners I use, "WIT" Whatever It Takes has them in stock.
This is what I got. The markings on the Raybestos (the 2 on the left are R560720 and R561350). The one of the right was allomatic but they replaced with raybestos, which I don't have the marking numbers on me now. Do they look like paper frictions?
I should have posted before I even tore into this transmission. Oh well, all I can do now is make sure I don't have to tear it up again after rebuilding and installing.
I should have posted before I even tore into this transmission. Oh well, all I can do now is make sure I don't have to tear it up again after rebuilding and installing.
In your pic....
*The 4 Intermediate's on the right are high energy.
*The center ones are the Forward & Direct which are cellulose/paper.
*One the left is the 4th clutch frictions.....They have always been cellulose based which is fine for the 4th clutch.
*I don't see the Overrun frictions? They will be cellulose, Again....That's OK.
Just so you know....Raybestos & Allomatic are under the same corporate umbrella.
What worries me the most is......It looks like they have sit around a while, Not good on a cellulose based friction
if they have been exposed to high humidity.
Where did you purchase these? I have bought a few auction lots with transmission parts/tools & Always throw loose
friction plates away because I have NO way to know how they were stored, It kinda looks like you got sold Auction Lot trash?
The last thing you want is a friction/s to un-bond & come apart in your fresh unit!!!
If you have a Transtar near you?, You can pick up a Borg Warner friction module from them. Order it for a '97 & up unit or just use the above part number.
*The 4 Intermediate's on the right are high energy.
*The center ones are the Forward & Direct which are cellulose/paper.
*One the left is the 4th clutch frictions.....They have always been cellulose based which is fine for the 4th clutch.
*I don't see the Overrun frictions? They will be cellulose, Again....That's OK.
Just so you know....Raybestos & Allomatic are under the same corporate umbrella.
What worries me the most is......It looks like they have sit around a while, Not good on a cellulose based friction
if they have been exposed to high humidity.
Where did you purchase these? I have bought a few auction lots with transmission parts/tools & Always throw loose
friction plates away because I have NO way to know how they were stored, It kinda looks like you got sold Auction Lot trash?
The last thing you want is a friction/s to un-bond & come apart in your fresh unit!!!
If you have a Transtar near you?, You can pick up a Borg Warner friction module from them. Order it for a '97 & up unit or just use the above part number.
I got all of these from amazon .. a seller called WellingtonPartsCorp
Not sure why the overrun frictions are not pictured. I took the picture to show them that not were raybestos.
I do have a transtar here in Phoenix. I called them today and asked for 1995 high energy borg warner frictions. he looked it up and said he did not carry them. Maybe the 95 year threw him off. I will check again tomorrow and ask for 97 and up.
Thanks for the feedback on the frictions. I will toss them out! I paid about $300 for "4L80E Master Overhaul Rebuild Kit & transgo SK4L80E. and I have get extra things. I should have just gone for "https://www.700r4l60e.com/store/product.php?productid=215&cat=78&page=1" for $500. Poor decisions!
On a side note , do you know the thickness of the pump bearing. Since my 2 washers at the rear add up to about 0.145, I can estimate what thickness shim I need to get to ".003-.008". I am assuming that if I get the pump bearing and the shim to add up to 0.140/0.145, I will get the back teh same end play as I have today (0.015). I read in some thread that the most common shim that goes with the bearing is 0.02. Just try to estimate the range of shims sizes I need so I get them at transtar if I drive up there.
Not sure why the overrun frictions are not pictured. I took the picture to show them that not were raybestos.
I do have a transtar here in Phoenix. I called them today and asked for 1995 high energy borg warner frictions. he looked it up and said he did not carry them. Maybe the 95 year threw him off. I will check again tomorrow and ask for 97 and up.
Thanks for the feedback on the frictions. I will toss them out! I paid about $300 for "4L80E Master Overhaul Rebuild Kit & transgo SK4L80E. and I have get extra things. I should have just gone for "https://www.700r4l60e.com/store/product.php?productid=215&cat=78&page=1" for $500. Poor decisions!
On a side note , do you know the thickness of the pump bearing. Since my 2 washers at the rear add up to about 0.145, I can estimate what thickness shim I need to get to ".003-.008". I am assuming that if I get the pump bearing and the shim to add up to 0.140/0.145, I will get the back teh same end play as I have today (0.015). I read in some thread that the most common shim that goes with the bearing is 0.02. Just try to estimate the range of shims sizes I need so I get them at transtar if I drive up there.
A new Koyo TH350 pump bearing is measuring .140" at my house with my dial caliper, LOL. You want your rear unit endplay close! If your old Selectable & Thrust is measuring .145" with .015" endplay.......I would start with a .015" shim/s & .140" bearing that in theory should yield .005" rear unit endplay.
You do know about the Case Bushing modification to rollerize?
I bought some Borg Warner 700R4/4L60E Input Sprags from Wellington once for a good price, Took forever to get & they where at least 5 years old. They sell old dusty products at a discount. Which is fine for hard parts. See if you can get your money back as you got sold loose unpackaged product.
Dana @ ProBuilt is good people!
You do know about the Case Bushing modification to rollerize?
I bought some Borg Warner 700R4/4L60E Input Sprags from Wellington once for a good price, Took forever to get & they where at least 5 years old. They sell old dusty products at a discount. Which is fine for hard parts. See if you can get your money back as you got sold loose unpackaged product.
Dana @ ProBuilt is good people!
Yes, that makes sense to start with 0.015 shim and see what end play I get. I have the ACDelco 9436851 Bearing on order , not the koyo. Hopefully it is the same. But they are cheap so if koyo is much better let me know. (and the koyo part#)
Yes I do know about the case bushing. I am going to use the TH400 case bushing. I read somewhere that you prefer the 4l80e pump bushing as it is wider for use as the case bushing, but someone else pointed out the oil groves in the Th400 case bushing. But that takes me to another question. Here is a picture of the case showing 2 weep holes. They were never plugged so I take it that because it a 4 wheel drive, my transfer case adaptor block seal provides sealing to contain the fluid? Just want to make sure that I should not be plugging that off.
The wellington parts did take a long time and the frictions were loose, not packaged. The return period is over, so I doubt I can get my money back.
Yes I do know about the case bushing. I am going to use the TH400 case bushing. I read somewhere that you prefer the 4l80e pump bushing as it is wider for use as the case bushing, but someone else pointed out the oil groves in the Th400 case bushing. But that takes me to another question. Here is a picture of the case showing 2 weep holes. They were never plugged so I take it that because it a 4 wheel drive, my transfer case adaptor block seal provides sealing to contain the fluid? Just want to make sure that I should not be plugging that off.
The wellington parts did take a long time and the frictions were loose, not packaged. The return period is over, so I doubt I can get my money back.
