2017 Ford F-150 2.7 Ecoboost

[bigj_16]

Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
While fuel dilution is discussed here with great enthusiasm there is nothing to indicate that it affects engine life materially.

Since everyone else is off topic here's my bit on early changes. There was a time when they seemed like a good idea. Still do to many. Yet our LS based truck engines, both 6.0 and 5.3 can run to half a million miles and do thousands of hours of stationary operation, hauling a 9000+ pound load in Florida climate with the oil changed strictly by the OLM.

Maybe those fords have a bad OLM or it needs reprogramming. GM had issues with engines needing shorter intervals.

I think Ford is looking to the new GF-6 oil to "remedy" thier oil issues. Nothing to back this up. Just a guess.
Steve, if this were the Coyote motor or another NA port injected engine, I would totally agree with you. These TGDI engines, are almost a whole new ball game. 10 years from now, we will probably be laughing at this, but right now there are some real issues to address, such as LSPI and shearing/dilution.
And since I started this thread, feel free to hijack it

Agree. The oil world has gotten pretty boring and predictable except for fuel dilution and LSPI, which seem to be THE issues now. As you point out this may be just a new normal and harmless. But absent any comforting comments from OEMs, we're just left to speculate.

On the other hand, Ford bumping up viscosity requirements for some EcoBoost engines, GM shortening OCIs for a good part of its DI fleet and Mazda seemingly resolving the issue suggest this phenomenon may not be altogether benign. And it makes one really wonder about makers that seemingly have done nothing, like Hyundai, Kia and Honda. Guess time will tell...
Couldn't have said it better....

 

[dblshock]

...last w/e did my first draw of one qt. and replaced that with .5 qt. VO...had gone 1/8" or so over the full mark already in the cooler weather here....and 4k on this OCI.

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
Timing chain ? Isn't that sort of mature technology ?

How long have timing chains been used on engines ?

Wonder if a bean counter mandated reducing cost on a perfectly goof part / system that worked . And ended up causing problems ? I just wonder ?

Best wishes ,


A mature technology that was confounded by the very small particulate matter that winds up in the sump of DI engines. But why this wasn't discovered during testing is an excellent and sobering question.

 

[bigj_16]

Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
Timing chain ? Isn't that sort of mature technology ?

How long have timing chains been used on engines ?

Wonder if a bean counter mandated reducing cost on a perfectly goof part / system that worked . And ended up causing problems ? I just wonder ?

Best wishes ,


A mature technology that was confounded by the very small particulate matter that winds up in the sump of DI engines. But why this wasn't discovered during testing is an excellent and sobering question.
Do you have a link for any studies on this? I'd like to read them if possible.

 

[WyrTwister]

[/quote]

A mature technology that was confounded by the very small particulate matter that winds up in the sump of DI engines. But why this wasn't discovered during testing is an excellent and sobering question. [/quote]


Interesting . What sort of particles ? Soot ? Ash ?

How does particle size relate to wear of other components ?

Does this happen at a rate that the oil filter can not " keep up " ?

Testing , hmmmmm .....

Makes one wonder if the thing was rushed into production & the consumer is doing the beta testing ?

Thanks ,

 

[bigj_16]

The 2017 has copper at a higher level at the roughly the same miles as the 2016. This is what I really need to keep an eye, as per the TSB.

 

[WyrTwister]

I am guessing lead comes from the Babbitt in the bearings ? Where does copper come from ? Think I remember there being copper ( or brass ) being beneath the Babbitt ?

Thanks ,

 

[Whimsey]

Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Whimsey
I am paying attention to your UOA's!

The difference is that your engine is obviously not exactly the same. What is interesting, is that yours shows viscosity drop with a quality oil, although over a longer stretch of miles, and it is still in grade. I am going to be using M1 5W-30, hopefully the new Dexos Gen. 2.


Keep in mind you sampled your oil early on and I did mine after removing the ff at 2,000 miles and the dealer's replacement oil after 3,200 miles of use. My UOA was after 7,000 miles on the 2nd replacement oil fill. Maybe the earlier oil changes before the UOA oil change helped with the UOA results. I will do an UOA with a 5,000 mile UOA with the Motorcraft 5W-30. I put it in because I had it and it's Ford's oil recommendation. But as I said I'll do no more than 5,000 miles with it. Then I'm back to Mobil 1 5w-30 as I've been able to keep accumulating that oil with their rebates.

Whimsey
Are you going to do a UOA on the MC?


Yes I am, it should be around late January. Then the dealer will put in their last(2nd) "complimentary" oil change with their conventional oil. That'll only stay in until April when the weather gets better, warmer, than I'll change it back to Mobil 1 5W-30 myself. I'm too old to crawl on the freezing ground to change oil in the winter anymore. I've done that for decades but no more, my bones are too old

.

Whimsey

 

[delasueno]

 

[bigj_16]

Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Originally Posted By: bigj_16
Whimsey
I am paying attention to your UOA's!

The difference is that your engine is obviously not exactly the same. What is interesting, is that yours shows viscosity drop with a quality oil, although over a longer stretch of miles, and it is still in grade. I am going to be using M1 5W-30, hopefully the new Dexos Gen. 2.


Keep in mind you sampled your oil early on and I did mine after removing the ff at 2,000 miles and the dealer's replacement oil after 3,200 miles of use. My UOA was after 7,000 miles on the 2nd replacement oil fill. Maybe the earlier oil changes before the UOA oil change helped with the UOA results. I will do an UOA with a 5,000 mile UOA with the Motorcraft 5W-30. I put it in because I had it and it's Ford's oil recommendation. But as I said I'll do no more than 5,000 miles with it. Then I'm back to Mobil 1 5w-30 as I've been able to keep accumulating that oil with their rebates.

Whimsey
Are you going to do a UOA on the MC?


Yes I am, it should be around late January. Then the dealer will put in their last(2nd) "complimentary" oil change with their conventional oil. That'll only stay in until April when the weather gets better, warmer, than I'll change it back to Mobil 1 5W-30 myself. I'm too old to crawl on the freezing ground to change oil in the winter anymore. I've done that for decades but no more, my bones are too old

.

Whimsey
I hear you, brother.
Just make sure they put in the 30, not the 20

 

[bigj_16]

Originally Posted By: delasueno

Thanx, mate!

 

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
[/quote]

A mature technology that was confounded by the very small particulate matter that winds up in the sump of DI engines. But why this wasn't discovered during testing is an excellent and sobering question.



Interesting . What sort of particles ? Soot ? Ash ?

How does particle size relate to wear of other components ?

Does this happen at a rate that the oil filter can not " keep up " ?

Testing , hmmmmm .....

Makes one wonder if the thing was rushed into production & the consumer is doing the beta testing ?

Thanks , [/quote]

Basically soot. DI engines do produce a lot more soot than MPI engines, so much so that there has been talk about requiring installing particulate filters like on diesels. You can see the result on sooty exhaust tips of many DI engines. While most of these particles exit via exhaust a very small amount work their way past the rings and into the sump, where they stay: too small to be filtered, but big and hard enough to cause damage on things like timing chains.

As I understand it, this is what caused GM to reporgram oil life monitors on a few model years of its DI V6s.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: Wolf359

While there's merit to both cases, what's the point of spending money to make an engine last 900k when some other part of the car like the transmission or rust will do it in by the 200-400k range.



He doesn't say he had an 2.7 last 900K.........


Right, but he was trying to imply that changing the oil frequently and using a heavier weight will make it last longer. I had a Duratec V6, lasted over 200k, engine was fine and I used the spec 5w20 most of the time except for a few times when I had 5w30 cheap. Engine was still fine when I got rid of the car because the cost of the transmission repair would have exceeded the value of the car. Granted it wasn't DI or a turbo, but I think my point of not spending extra money to make an engine last extra long is still valid as it probably won't yield any dividend for the average owner.

 

[WyrTwister]

[/quote]

Basically soot. DI engines do produce a lot more soot than MPI engines, so much so that there has been talk about requiring installing particulate filters like on diesels. You can see the result on sooty exhaust tips of many DI engines. While most of these particles exit via exhaust a very small amount work their way past the rings and into the sump, where they stay: too small to be filtered, but big and hard enough to cause damage on things like timing chains.

As I understand it, this is what caused GM to reprogram oil life monitors on a few model years of its DI V6s. [/quote]

Again , interesting .........

I guess I am again misinformed . I had read that below a specific particle size ( do not remember the number ) , such particles " polish " , not " wear " . And I had guessed , particles that are small enough to pass through an oil filter would fall into that category ?

Wondering if the wear is with the plastic chain guides / tensioners and not the metal ?

Food for thought .

Thanks ,

 

[WyrTwister]

We recently purchased a 2006 Buick Lacrosse CX 3.8l , with 37,000 + miles .

Kind of makes me glad it is old enough it is not DI & it is NA .

Requires Dexron 6 , but not Dexos . Not driving it a lot , will probably do dino oil on a short OCI .

Thanks ,

 

[WyrTwister]

If they end up putting particulate filters on DI engines , does that end up killing the fuel economy gains over MPI engines ?

Thanks ,

 

[bigj_16]

Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
I am guessing lead comes from the Babbitt in the bearings ? Where does copper come from ? Think I remember there being copper ( or brass ) being beneath the Babbitt ?

Thanks ,
There usually is copper in Babbitt, but it usually is a small amount. Usually if you get down to the copper, you have an old engine or a bad engine

. This, of course, depends on the design. Most likely, the copper in these samples is from valve guides(bronze). Again, depends on design.
Supposedly, Ford put wider, longer main bearings in this engine, due to the start/stop feature.

 

[Colt45ws]

Main and rod bearings on this engine are Aluminium/Silicon. Bearings have not been made of babbit in modern engines for quite awhile.

 

[FZ1]

Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
I suspect that 5W20 was installed in both vehicles that the original poster put up. The second one had a bit of fuel dilute I think, but not enough to be flagged for a concern. (Probably in the neighborhood of 1%)
And that second one was just a bit thinner than the first.
This^^^^. The dealer put a 20 weight oil in the op's truck.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
Timing chain ? Isn't that sort of mature technology ?

How long have timing chains been used on engines ?

Wonder if a bean counter mandated reducing cost on a perfectly goof part / system that worked . And ended up causing problems ? I just wonder ?

Best wishes ,




Timing chains have been around since the beginning. The switch was made to timing belts supposedly to make it quieter. Now the process is coming full circle with the return to chains.

Also, as Colt mentioned previously, babbit hasn't been used for quite some time.