2010 Accord VTC Issues

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History: Car had VTC Actuator replaced with Non-Improved part by Honda Dealer back in 2014/2015. Start up rattle showed up again in a few months. Start up rattle occurs about 20% of starts. Honda won't fix it again. I "bump" the starter, build up oil pressure in the VTC system, and this eliminates almost all the start-up rattle instances. Last week my car was stumbling when I tried to start it. CEL came on, so did traction control. Threw P1009 code. Started fine a few minutes later. Yesterday, the car gave the typical VTC Actuator grind when I started it (it usually only does it about 10-20% of the time) but this time, it was a longer than usual noise. Going down the highway, CEL and traction control lights on again. Come to stop light, and car is running rough at low speeds. I arrive at destination without too much trouble. Start car 1.5 hours later, and this time, the actuator noise begins AND DOESN'T STOP. Car is stumbling again. I immediately turn off because grinding sound is INSANE. I tried starting it several times, same thing keeps happening: VTC Rattle won't stop. 10 minutes later, I start it and it's running run. No high idle, no weird noises, no stumbling. I go straight home and haven't touched it since. What do you think?? My local car mechanic says that he's going to check the oil pressure next week and if it turns out within spec, he'd consider fixing it. He also says the journal near the actuator can wear out and regular oil pressure and VTC oil pressure can mix and cause crazy problems as well (things he's seen in Non-Honda vehicles). He suggest that I buy VTC Actuator, VTC solenoid, timing chain, and tensioners and he'll install but no guarantee it will fix my problem. Any suggestions or insights??
 
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I had this issue on a toyota year ago and people said I was full of it. smile Maybe you can get a regular cam pulley or a welded/ or bolt locked VCT Other than that IDK if honda have an actuator oil feed screen like they do on the VTEC oil feed. - behind the solenoid. Maybe thats gunked up (as would be typical after a few years) I assume here its a wet system. Some designs ( very few) employ a dry system.
 
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CA
Assuming the oil is clean and full, check the VTC strainer to confirm that it is also clean. Test the VTC solenoid for functionality. If those items check out, you need to remove the valve cover and verify mechanical timing. My gut feeling is that you have a stretched timing chain.
 
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I wouldn't let him throw all those parts at it unless you just simply want them all replaced. It's 15 min to check timing. That should be covered in his diagnosis fee, give him a valve cover gasket and tube seals so he can put it back together if timing isn't off but it likely is. If the chain stretched you'd need a seal or two for the front cover, chain, tensioner, guides.
 
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Originally Posted by t1snwrbrdr12
I wouldn't let him throw all those parts at it unless you just simply want them all replaced. It's 15 min to check timing. That should be covered in his diagnosis fee, give him a valve cover gasket and tube seals so he can put it back together if timing isn't off but it likely is. If the chain stretched you'd need a seal or two for the front cover, chain, tensioner, guides.
I'm pretty convinced it's a stretched chain and it's out of time. VTC actuator needs replaced anyhow, because it's been rattling for a few years. VTC solenoid is just another $80, but as well replace that since he's right there. But you are right, I'lln have him check oil pressure and timing before we order parts
 
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if possible its time to dump that ride!! lots of deals these days + Kia-Hyundai are a good buy with loooong warranties!!
 
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It's not necessarily time to dump it. Is it an oil burner? Some K24's drink like cheap wino's, some barely touch it like it's poison. If you aren't having any oil issues, I say throw timing components at it. It's not a huge job, and all components have been updated. At least you caught it before a valve got damage.
 
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Originally Posted by 14Accent
It's not necessarily time to dump it. Is it an oil burner? Some K24's drink like cheap wino's, some barely touch it like it's poison. If you aren't having any oil issues, I say throw timing components at it. It's not a huge job, and all components have been updated. At least you caught it before a valve got damage.
It consumes 0.5--0.75 quart in 7-9k mile OCI. Really nothing. I'll think to fix the car. It's been maintained to a high level. I'm not willing to throw in the towel yet.
 
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Here's what I ordered yesterday: Part Number Part Name 14210-PNA-000 Sprocket, Cam Chain Driven (46T) 14310-R5A-305 Actuator, Vtc (46T) 14510-R40-A01 Tensioner, Cam Chain 90032-PNA-000 Bolt, Flange (12X47) 90042-PNA-003 Bolt, Flange (10X32) 14401-R40-A01 Chain (176L) (Daido) 14520-RAH-H01 Arm, Cam Chain Tensioner 14530-RZA-A01 Guide, Cam Chain 14540-RAA-A02 Guide B, Cam Chain 15811-R40-A01 Valve Sub-Assembly, Spool 15811-R41-L01 Valve Sub-Assembly, Spool 15830-R5A-A01 Valve Assembly, Vtc Oil Control Almost $900 in parts. All OEM Honda. This should fix any start up rattle and now P1009 codes and get my engine running back in time.
 
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You'll need at least one o-ring / seal behind the timing cover and a valve cover gasket and spark plug tube seal kit. I didn't replace the cam gears when I did my personal k24 timing chain job. I can understand why, but one of them is ridiculously expensive which I'm sure you found out.
 
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Originally Posted by t1snwrbrdr12
You'll need at least one o-ring / seal behind the timing cover and a valve cover gasket and spark plug tube seal kit. I didn't replace the cam gears when I did my personal k24 timing chain job. I can understand why, but one of them is ridiculously expensive which I'm sure you found out.
What year was your car?? The expensive cam gear is the VTC Actuator that "rattles" on cold starts. It's notorious on these engines. I think the Actuator was approximately $150, and the exhaust sprocket was like $80. Thanks for reminding me about the gaskets.... I'll order tomorrow.
 
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Why are you replacing the VTEC spool valve assembly?.....BTW, You have 2 listed......You only need one of them, Look at the back of the engine on the passenger side & identify which one you have. That is IF you decide to replace it? VCT Phaser rattle & P1009 isn't a good reason in my opinion! 15811-R40-A01 is the single Pressure Switch, Spool, Solenoid. 15811-R41-L01 is the dual Pressure switches, Spools, & Solenoids [Linked Image from i.imgur.com] [Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
 
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Originally Posted by Phishin
Originally Posted by t1snwrbrdr12
You'll need at least one o-ring / seal behind the timing cover and a valve cover gasket and spark plug tube seal kit. I didn't replace the cam gears when I did my personal k24 timing chain job. I can understand why, but one of them is ridiculously expensive which I'm sure you found out.
What year was your car?? The expensive cam gear is the VTC Actuator that "rattles" on cold starts. It's notorious on these engines. I think the Actuator was approximately $150, and the exhaust sprocket was like $80. Thanks for reminding me about the gaskets.... I'll order tomorrow.
I had an 03. Never had raffles but stretched the timing chain.
 
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Originally Posted by clinebarger
Why are you replacing the VTEC spool valve assembly?.....BTW, You have 2 listed......You only need one of them, Look at the back of the engine on the passenger side & identify which one you have. That is IF you decide to replace it? VCT Phaser rattle & P1009 isn't a good reason in my opinion! 15811-R40-A01 is the single Pressure Switch, Spool, Solenoid. 15811-R41-L01 is the dual Pressure switches, Spools, & Solenoids [Linked Image from i.imgur.com] [Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Why? Because I heard that the spool's oil control valve is responsible for "leaking" and causing pressure in the actuator to "leak down" causing the start up rattle. Is that not the case? Also, a highly respected member here, who wrenches on cars himself, highly suggested replacing the spool valve. I ordered both of them because I'm not 100% sure which valve I have (I needed to order right away and the mechanic had the car locked up in his garage). So I'll just send back the valve (or both) that I didn't use.
 
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This is why I recommend swapping it out. That and the fact you can buy the whole assy for not much more from an online dealer than the individual parts sourced at retail locally. If this part was improved they may have replaced the original one that failed with the same part, which would have the same effect for example as replacing a Gen I ecotec chain tensioner with another Gen I tensioner or LIM on a 3800 with another of the original design. Both were bad right off the hop Was that really the problem back then or is that the root cause of the problem today? I have no idea.
Quote
History: Car had VTC Actuator replaced with Non-Improved part by Honda Dealer back in 2014/2015. Start up rattle showed up again in a few months.
 
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Originally Posted by Trav
If this part was improved they may have replaced the original one that failed with the same part
Quote
History: Car had VTC Actuator replaced with Non-Improved part by Honda Dealer back in 2014/2015. Start up rattle showed up again in a few months.
Honda did replace the VTC Actuator once....but it was before the "Improved" part was released. I was able to prevent 90% of my start-up rattle issues with "bumping" my starting a few times (to build up oil pressure, I assume) before I actually started the car. So, I assume that there really is a faulty valve somewhere. For $100, it's a cheap insurance. I don't want to do this again.
 
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[/quote] I was able to prevent 90% of my start-up rattle issues with "bumping" my starting a few times (to build up oil pressure, I assume) before I actually started the car. [/quote] You might need a new starter if you keep bumping...
 
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