0W-20 for Texas winters/summers good?

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: nap
So how thick do you have to be to not realise that the first article talks about conductivity and the second one about altering convection parameters? And how brazen do you need to be in order to defame a respected scientist just because you wanted to start an argument with forum member Nap?

Insults fly in again.

This has sunk below the lowest intellectual levels witnessed on the Internet. There is no reasoning with you. You turn perfectly valid logical arguments upside down. The concept of logic is nonexistent with you. When there is no logic, all bets are off. I feel like I'm trying to futilely explain things to a five-year-old with behavior problems -- it's hopeless for the logic to prevail.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
This has sunk below the lowest intellectual levels witnessed on the Internet. There is no reasoning with you. You turn perfectly valid logical arguments upside down. The concept of logic is nonexistent with you. When there is no logic, all bets are off. I feel like I'm trying to futilely explain things to a five-year-old with behavior problems -- it's hopeless for the logic to prevail.


OK, but if we are attempting to frame ourselves as the bastion of logic, civility and reason then one needs to also consider the exchange, which appears to have started (and I went back through the whole thread) by this relatively harmless comment by nap:

Originally Posted By: nap
Some interesting stuff about humid air. One would expect that humidity improves air's cooling capabilities as now it contains water which has a higher thermal capacity. Well, not really:

https://www.electronics-cooling.com/2003/11/the-thermal-conductivity-of-moist-air/


Which then triggered your first post in this thread which started with this gem:

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The guy who wrote this article doesn't understand heat at all.


Now, did you or did you not actually read the linked article before making this comment?

Because that resulted in nap, responding to your condemnation of the author as incompetent:

Originally Posted By: nap
Yeah right, have you even bothered to google for the author’s credentials? He retired as Principal Scientist at Philips after a career focused on thermal management of electronic systems.


Which doesn't strike me as out of line

To which you replied:
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
It's good for him. In that case we are talking about your lack of understanding. The fact remains that the effects of air's heat conductivity are insignificant, as the air convection and heat radiation are the primary mechanisms in electronic cooling and air conduction hardly plays a role. You need to understand that part first before you imagine the insignificant effects as being significant.


Immediately deflecting from your questioning of the authors credentials to implying that nap is cognitively hindered and you erroneously what, ascribed the article's contents to nap? Because honestly, his single line and link to the article didn't really leave much in the way of content to be interpreted, which it would seem, was expected to be derived from the body of the linked article, which it seemed initially, is what you condemned.

Things went downhill quickly at that point.

But key here:

You initiated this negative exchange. You could have responded very differently to him, you were not active in this thread before tossing his contribution into a brush fire and slagging the author. When questioned on that you tossed nap into the brush fire instead. If we are going to pretend to be preaching from some moral high ground I think it needs to be said that you were the one that steered this one into the weeds, not nap, regardless of how previous exchanges have panned out between you two.

 

[Gokhan]

It doesn't matter how it progressed. With him no matter how kind I put it, if I try to contribute anything into a real understanding of the subject, he will hit back with insults and trolling and turn the logic upside down.

It's hopeless. When someone posts something misleading, such as the air conductivity having a significant effect on electronics cooling, I have two choices: (1) Post nothing and let the misleading information remain. (2) Explain it and then be trolled and insulted by nap with an 80% chance.

You really don't know his history and are judging falsely by looking at only a couple of pots.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
It doesn't matter how it progressed. With him no matter how kind I put it, if I try to contribute anything into a real understanding of the subject, he will hit back with insults and trolling and turn the logic upside down.

It's hopeless. When someone posts something misleading, such as the air conductivity having a significant effect on electronics cooling, I have two choices: (1) Post nothing and let the misleading information remain. (2) Explain it and then be trolled and insulted by nap with an 80% chance.

You really don't know his history and are judging falsely by looking at only a couple of pots.


How do you think I have the post count I do

Come on, I'm on here regularly, i see the posts, I just see them differently than you do because I'm not "in the thick of it"; I'm outside of that interaction.

What would I have done? Well, for starters, I would have read the article, which I don't believe you did initially, hence what you stated about the author. It wasn't until nap got incensed by your remarks that you bothered to go back and actually read it.

If you had read the article you could have then chosen a few quotes that supported your position, presented them in a manner that didn't come off as a personal slam and there you go. You've refuted what you disagreed with using the reference, which seems to be your primary concern, and you didn't engage in the back-in-forth that was perhaps being sought at that juncture based on historical relations.

You are invested in this negative relationship at this point just as much as he is. You choose to engage him just as he chooses to engage you. Yes there's a history, yes it isn't pleasant, yes, he's started with you before. But in this thread, that wasn't the case and there was certainly a different road that could have been taken.

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
... The fact remains that the effects of air's heat conductivity are insignificant, ...
No, they're not. Convection heat transfer, whether natural or forced, could not take place if the conductivity of air was zero.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: CR94
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
... The fact remains that the effects of air's heat conductivity are insignificant, ...

No, they're not. Convection heat transfer, whether natural or forced, could not take place if the conductivity of air was zero.

Of course, that's true. When the medium has zero heat conductivity (such as vacuum), there can't be convection either.

However, when the medium is a very poor heat conductor such as air, the dominating effect is the convection by far.

Heat conductivity of air goes lower with humidity but its heat capacity goes higher. Since the convection is the dominating factor, the net result is that the heat transfer increases substantially with the humidity. That was the whole point of my post, as the original post explicitly claimed that the heat-transfer capability of moist air is less. This was false and I merely corrected it so that people aren't mislead.

Interestingly, the conference paper I linked references the article in the original post.

Nevertheless, it's also interesting that the heat conductivity decreases with the humidity, even though this is not the dominating effect in heat transfer by air.

 

[edhackett]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: nap
Some interesting stuff about humid air. One would expect that humidity improves air's cooling capabilities as now it contains water which has a higher thermal capacity. Well, not really:

https://www.electronics-cooling.com/2003/11/the-thermal-conductivity-of-moist-air/

The guy who wrote this article doesn't understand heat at all. There are three methods of heat transfer: conduction, convection, and radiation.

Air is practically a thermal insulator or notoriously bad thermal conductor. Having a double wall with an air gap practically provides full insulation because air practically does not conduct heat. Double wall prevents convection and air virtually doesn't conduct heat and you have nearly full insulation as a result. So, it's a moot issue what the humidity contributes to air's negligible heat conductivity.


That's exactly what the author of the article concluded. Quoting from the article:
Quote:
However, people regularly ask: “What exactly is the influence of humidity?” And my standard answer has always been: “Nothing to worry about.”

After explaining the science behind the effect of humidity on air's thermal conductivity and why it is different than you might expect:
Quote:
Luckily for me, my standard answer still holds: Nothing to worry about, except when you are after maximum accuracy and all other sources of uncertainty are being addressed at the same time.


There was not a single word in that article that addressed the role of thermal conductivity in cooling electronics, let alone calling it significant. Those were your words, not nap's or the author's. You need to stop trying to read people's minds and putting words in their mouths.

Oh, and people might take you a bit more seriously if you stop claiming those who agree with you don't know anything.

Ed

 

[crazy_raccoon]

So upon returning from Afghanistan and seeing the communities postings have entertained me while I was away, I'm going to send off a UOA for the Accord tomorrow. Both cars (CHECK MY [censored] SIG!) are originally spec'd for 5W-20 but Honda back spec'd the '07 Accord to 0W-20 and the '07 TC was spec'd for both due to which climate the car was in. I haven't done an oil change yet on the TC because only about 600 miles was driven in the past 7 months with Valvoline FS w/ML 0W-20 D1G2. Should I change the oil anyways? Also debating if I should just go ahead and go back to 5W-20.

My wife did notice a huge jump in MPG during long highway road trips of over 200+ miles one way when I switched to 0W-20 and I didn't even tell her I put that oil weight in. I also notice in both cars that the oil evaporates or burns off quicker in 0W-20 in both combine driving (city/highway) and even more so on long highway commutes. I have to top off oil more often in 0W-20. Not sure if the oil is shearing down with this crazy heatwave or if 5W-20 provides better protection? Regardless none of the engines are leaking oil anywhere and obviously these are not newer vehicles that have higher tolerances for lighter oils. Just giving the BITOG community a heads up.

We were driving the Accord for a couple of trips of 2+ hrs with ambient temps over 100 degrees but I also attribute the oil loss due to long commute in constant vacuum. Anyways, just trying to figure which good oils that are worth the money, in my driving conditions and for our older desiged engines.