Convince me why I should use a high-quality filter
- Thread starter The Critic
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Javaman, Just because the filter cost more does not mean it is a better filter. Marketing sets the price for a filter not it's production cost or it's true performance!! K&N oil filters are a good example of this. A K&N oil filter does not filter better then a Pureone butit cost 2x as much. Sure the K&N have a nut on the end for easy removal and they have a much higher burst rateing. These two items do not represent a 2X markup but their name and the preception ofit being a better filter does!THe K&N does not even use media as good as the M1.
I hope people are not buying K&N because the high dollar means a better product at filtration. I buy K&N filter for my dad's car because he does 10-15k OCI's and i have no faith in the regular $5 and below filters to last that long. Its more about longevity over filteration for me to choose K&N. If it was filtration, now i would go with PureOne with 7.5k ocis
^ I think everyone buys the K&N for the "nut". Why can't all filters have the "nut" -- or at least the Fram grip? I had a heck of the time removing my first OEM filter. It was very tight, and slippery
Over 20 million air-cooled Volkswagens were built using no oil filter. They went probably billions of miles like this. I have personally driven a VW 150,000 plus miles with complete satisfaction, changing the 2.5 quarts of oil every 2000 miles. Virtually any new car would easily go 200,000 miles with no filter today as they are much cleaner running than any air-cooled VW. Throw away the air filter and see how long it runs....
Joe
My opinion (no analysis to back it up) is that for 3K/3month OCIs, essentially any oil/filter on the market today will be OK. In the interests of saving time and materials, though, I have gone to 15K/1 year OCIs on the 3 cars I maintain, and for those OCIs, I feel better using premium filters and syn oil. I might be wasting some money even at the extended OCI, but I would rather spend a little extra now than regret I didn't in the future. Anyway, I think my total cash outlay is about the same as with 3K/3month OCIs using the cheap stuff, and my time spent changing oil is way less (and I can do all the changes in warm weather). FWIW, I tend to keep my cars a long time, generally to the bitter end.
Save your money and buy a Purolator Premium Plus for $1.50 and spend the money you saved on oil.
Mike,
150 / 20000 = .0075
You know what I am getting at, if that number needs to be more in your favor what do you do ?
We know this will make you feel worse:
150 / 15000 = .01
To put true logic behind these type of ratios, you'd really need a Decision Support System to properly weigh all the various reasons you have thought out and thus come out with a ranking from what means most to you.
My point being, no one on the board can know all the reasons you have in your mind in you wanting one thing vs. another.
It has nothing to do with being cheap either but the very small dollar context easily skews the decision. ( and thus has people willing to PayPal you some funds )
I'll try and find my old DSS from my college days for you, but seriously if you want to feel good about the $150, buy the filters you want and drive on, no need to ask for someone to convince you.
150 / 20000 = .0075
You know what I am getting at, if that number needs to be more in your favor what do you do ?
We know this will make you feel worse:
150 / 15000 = .01
To put true logic behind these type of ratios, you'd really need a Decision Support System to properly weigh all the various reasons you have thought out and thus come out with a ranking from what means most to you.
My point being, no one on the board can know all the reasons you have in your mind in you wanting one thing vs. another.
It has nothing to do with being cheap either but the very small dollar context easily skews the decision. ( and thus has people willing to PayPal you some funds )
I'll try and find my old DSS from my college days for you, but seriously if you want to feel good about the $150, buy the filters you want and drive on, no need to ask for someone to convince you.
I like the PureOne filter cause it has nice metallic blue paint on it. Anyone know where I can find this filter in Canada?
I just bought the top of the line Napa filter for my 78 Ford truck for like $5.60 Canadian the other day and a $3.91 Wix for my 307 Olds V8.
I have a hard time even cheaping out on the engine that doesn't matter to me much, next year the Caprice's 307 is either being swapped for a 350, or the car is being sold. On the other hand I might keep the car for my girlfriend who gets her license next summer. I want her to have something safe and reliable and cheap and easy to maintain.
I just bought the top of the line Napa filter for my 78 Ford truck for like $5.60 Canadian the other day and a $3.91 Wix for my 307 Olds V8.
I have a hard time even cheaping out on the engine that doesn't matter to me much, next year the Caprice's 307 is either being swapped for a 350, or the car is being sold. On the other hand I might keep the car for my girlfriend who gets her license next summer. I want her to have something safe and reliable and cheap and easy to maintain.
Just personal choice I guess. I like a well constructed and high filtering oil filter for my warm fuzzy feeling. "You get what you pay for" sticks in my head. I coose to use Amsoil products, since I believe (or want to believe) they produce honest and well design products.
I've never used a high quality filter. always frams then when I found this site went to supertech oil filters mixed in with free after rebate oil filters (bosch) then havoline discount oil filters. 10 years of oil changing and never a problem so far (knock on wood)
Quote:
Unless we can quantify what's so "premium" or "good" about one filter over another, maybe we're just buying a warm fuzzy feeling inside with our few extra bucks.
Well, I don't know about you, but a warm fuzzy feeling about my car for a full 6 mo. OCI is sure worth a few extra bucks to me!
john and lazy are correct. filters are there to make you feel better. vw's didn't have filters nor did the old cars. like I said, how much trash do you put in your oil? using uoa's I found that it made no difference using oil filters. I would use the cheapest oil filter that is recommended for that engine as it wouldn't save that engine any longer. flow is more important than a clean oil(that is what you want to accomplish with a high end restrictive filter) now for oil, thats another story. the cheaper the oil, the more wear you'll get. I'm also with john about the diesel oil and the soot it has. I can see where it would make a difference if the filter will protect against soot, but in gas engines it isn't so.
hi to Auto-Union
hi to Auto-Union
Because of this place, I now run my Wix filters to 10k along with my syn oil. I change both at that time, which for me only takes about 4-5 months on my Civic.
I use Motorcraft filters on my Fords and AC Delco filters on my GM products.
I also run Royal Purple 5W20 or 5W30 synthetic oil in my vehicles, except in the "beater" which gets TropArtic semi-synthetic 5W30.
*shrug*
I guess I look at my choices as a cost:benefit "sweet spot" with my vehicles. I think I get the best of both worlds - reasonably priced filters that seem to be very well constructed and do a good job, and high-quality oil at reasonable prices (I pay less than $4 a quart for Royal Purple and $1.68 a quart for TropArtic).
I also run Royal Purple 5W20 or 5W30 synthetic oil in my vehicles, except in the "beater" which gets TropArtic semi-synthetic 5W30.
*shrug*
I guess I look at my choices as a cost:benefit "sweet spot" with my vehicles. I think I get the best of both worlds - reasonably priced filters that seem to be very well constructed and do a good job, and high-quality oil at reasonable prices (I pay less than $4 a quart for Royal Purple and $1.68 a quart for TropArtic).
Bob, good to see you post Brother!
I am going to disagree with you. In the time since your testing without a oil filter we have a media technology called "nanofiber", it is seriously different.
A good high quality FF filter is going to provide mostly insurance and some minor "stripping" of dispersed insolubles.
You must have a mechanism that provides some safety net for the oil and the protected moving parts or anything that dislodges or is introduced over time will needlessly damage. I do agree that if a car is very clean and well maintained,running a superior lube or combination of chems to disperse as long as nothing large enters the stream all is OK.
I will also agree that until recently most FF filters were capable of very little except insurance.
With the Donaldson media development that Amsoil is the flagship seller called, EaO things changed. This filter is indeed capable of high flow rates, high efficiency,low restriction ( not tripping into bypass frequently like most high efficiency full flows), long life, and good construction to last more than 2 normal drain intervals.
I am still studying the effect but the filters seems capable of trapping a significant (50+%) of larger particles ( 10um +) and holding them. Maybe better than many bypass systems in the automotive sump ( small) while moving unrestricted oil for good flow, cooling ,and filtering.
If I am right and these units can be used for 10-15,000 miles they are a great value.
Terry
I am going to disagree with you. In the time since your testing without a oil filter we have a media technology called "nanofiber", it is seriously different.
A good high quality FF filter is going to provide mostly insurance and some minor "stripping" of dispersed insolubles.
You must have a mechanism that provides some safety net for the oil and the protected moving parts or anything that dislodges or is introduced over time will needlessly damage. I do agree that if a car is very clean and well maintained,running a superior lube or combination of chems to disperse as long as nothing large enters the stream all is OK.
I will also agree that until recently most FF filters were capable of very little except insurance.
With the Donaldson media development that Amsoil is the flagship seller called, EaO things changed. This filter is indeed capable of high flow rates, high efficiency,low restriction ( not tripping into bypass frequently like most high efficiency full flows), long life, and good construction to last more than 2 normal drain intervals.
I am still studying the effect but the filters seems capable of trapping a significant (50+%) of larger particles ( 10um +) and holding them. Maybe better than many bypass systems in the automotive sump ( small) while moving unrestricted oil for good flow, cooling ,and filtering.
If I am right and these units can be used for 10-15,000 miles they are a great value.
Terry
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