Redline and Toyota 3.5L piston slap

[Colt]

Awhile back I posted about my RX's cold weather piston slap and if any oil could quiet the noise down a bit.I tried Amsoil SSO and the piston slap was louder than dino oil.
I tried Redline 5w30 because someone mentioned Redline's ester and/or moly has quieted some engine noise.
Well,I just tried RL and here's my results after a few days.
On start up piston slap noise is the same but after a few seconds quiets down to just about half the noise.Noise pretty much goes away much,much faster than it did with dino.
Very happy with the results of using Redline and will continue to use it in both our cars and the kids vehicles.

 

[Bill in Utah]

The only concern I'd have is since you have a problem that COULD get worst and the vehicle is only a 2009 with a 5 year warranty using Redline will raise flags with Toyota *if* you try to get the engine serviced under warranty.

If you have over 60k miles, never mind.

Under 60k, if it gets worst... You will have problems with Toyota.

Glad to hear its working for you.

Bill

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
The only concern I'd have is since you have a problem that COULD get worst and the vehicle is only a 2009 with a 5 year warranty using Redline will raise flags with Toyota *if* you try to get the engine serviced under warranty.

If you have over 60k miles, never mind.

Under 60k, if it gets worst... You will have problems with Toyota.

Glad to hear its working for you.

Bill


Thanks Bill,I am aware of the warranty issue.I have a standard 4/50 and an extended 7/100.
However,the percentages of having oil related problems are very small and I may have a chance to quickly change the oil if a problem should arise.
I've rolled the dice using Amsoil synthetics during warranty on many vehicles for many years.So far so good.

 

[demarpaint]

2009 and piston slap, I'd be back to Toyota with it, and not looking for an oil to quiet it down. IMO piston slap in a new car is something I would not accept. Sorry. JMO.

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
2009 and piston slap, I'd be back to Toyota with it, and not looking for an oil to quiet it down. IMO piston slap in a new car is something I would not accept. Sorry. JMO.


Did and Toyota/Lexus says it's normal.
I've read here and on Toyota/Lexus forums that the noise doesn't do any damage.It's just there till the engine warms up.Pretty common on 3.5L Toyota engines.
My other car's 3.5L is quiet for now,anyway.

 

[demarpaint]

Seems that is the blanket statement for any automaker. Piston slap is a mechanical issue, and truthfully it should not occur. We have debated it here on Bitog, and it is not something that should occur in any engine, but sometimes it does. Seems Ford, GM, and Toyota have issues with it, but it certainly is not something that is normal.

It would make me nuts with a new car, and I'd probably end up in court with it. Odds are they'd do nothing in terms of fixing the issue, but I would certainly fight to get some kind of warranty extension to protect my investment. Just make sure in the event you have a problem you have Toyota approved oil and filter in that engine. JMO

 

[mechtech2]

Be the 'squeaky wheel' now.
Get complaints verified in writing at the stealership.
They may balk now,
but who knows what the future holds for warranty replacement?
A few years down the line, they may surprise you. It has happened before when a company realizes they have a problem.

I believe it it Redlne's additives that seemed to help, not that it is a synthetic oil. Remember that you had a synthetic oil in there that made it worse.
It's too bad that a very modern engine like yours needs highly modified oil, when common and cheap engines can use regular cheap oil.

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Seems that is the blanket statement for any automaker. Piston slap is a mechanical issue, and truthfully it should not occur. We have debated it here on Bitog, and it is not something that should occur in any engine, but sometimes it does. Seems Ford, GM, and Toyota have issues with it, but it certainly is not something that is normal.

It would make me nuts with a new car, and I'd probably end up in court with it. Odds are they'd do nothing in terms of fixing the issue, but I would certainly fight to get some kind of warranty extension to protect my investment. Just make sure in the event you have a problem you have Toyota approved oil and filter in that engine. JMO


I tried with two Lexus dealers.Something to do with metal expansion when cold to warm.Sound goes away after warm up and RL made it go away faster and lessened the noise.
I have an Lexus Platimum no deductible 7/100 extended warranty that I bought from a guy named Troy Dietrich from Toyota of Greenfield in MA that sells Toyota/Lexus warranties for $100 or $150 over dealer cost.He's well known on Lexus and Toyota forums.

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Be the 'squeaky wheel' now.
Get complaints verified in writing at the stealership.
They may balk now,
but who knows what the future holds for warranty replacement?
A few years down the line, they may surprise you. It has happened before when a company realizes they have a problem.

I believe it it Redlne's additives that seemed to help, not that it is a synthetic oil. Remember that you had a synthetic oil in there that made it worse.
It's too bad that a very modern engine like yours needs highly modified oil, when common and cheap engines can use regular cheap oil.


I have a extended warranty so I'm not going to worry about it.
I only used Redline because of talks about how esters do quiet some engines.Worked for me.
I've used Amsoil synthetics for years.So no matter what vehicle,it had synthetic.

 

[hate2work]

Wow, I would NOT be happy if I paid for a brand new Lexus that had piston slap and the dealer told me it was normal GRRRRR

Do you know what ps really is? It's when the skirt of the piston is sized too small for the cylinder bore and "slaps" against the cylinder wall as the crank turns over TDC. Piston/cylinder wear is almost inevitable, most times it's the piston that disintegrates and ends up in the bottom of the engine, not good!!

Here's a web page I found with some good info about this problem with some of the GM engines...

http://www.pistonslap.com/whatisit.htm

Geez, will the problems with these Toyotas never end?

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: Colt
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
2009 and piston slap, I'd be back to Toyota with it, and not looking for an oil to quiet it down. IMO piston slap in a new car is something I would not accept. Sorry. JMO.


Did and Toyota/Lexus says it's normal.
I've read here and on Toyota/Lexus forums that the noise doesn't do any damage.It's just there till the engine warms up.Pretty common on 3.5L Toyota engines.
My other car's 3.5L is quiet for now,anyway.


Then I'd take the one that does NOT make the noise with you and ask the stealership to make the one with the noise like the one WITHOUT.

Since its "normal". If its "normal" then how come the other one with the SAME engine does not do it?

If it's "normal", then ask them to make the quiet one have the noise. Something is wrong with the quiet one...

Hate it when stealerships come up with the "it's normal" speech. Everytime they have I've taken them to one of the other vehicles on the lot and say "prove it". Make that vehicle do it....

They change their tune right away.

Sorry Colt. Had to vent!

Good luck. Bill

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: hate2work

Wow, I would NOT be happy if I paid for a brand new Lexus that had piston slap and the dealer told me it was normal GRRRRR

Do you know what is really is? It's when the skirt of the piston is sized too small for the cylinder bore and "slaps" against the cylinder wall as the crank turns over TDC. Piston/cylinder wear is almost inevitable, most times it's the piston that disintegrates and ends up in the bottom of the engine, not good!!

Here's a web page I found with some good info about this problem with some of the GM engines...

http://www.pistonslap.com/whatisit.htm

Geez, will the problems with these Toyotas never end?


The 3.5L has had this issue in some of the engines in cold weather climates for years.It's a cold weather start up issue that disappears when engines warms up.It's not continuous.No bad press about any engine problem.
I also have an extended warranty so I'm not worried.

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: Colt
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
2009 and piston slap, I'd be back to Toyota with it, and not looking for an oil to quiet it down. IMO piston slap in a new car is something I would not accept. Sorry. JMO.


Did and Toyota/Lexus says it's normal.
I've read here and on Toyota/Lexus forums that the noise doesn't do any damage.It's just there till the engine warms up.Pretty common on 3.5L Toyota engines.
My other car's 3.5L is quiet for now,anyway.


Then I'd take the one that does NOT make the noise with you and ask the stealership to make the one with the noise like the one WITHOUT.

Since its "normal". If its "normal" then how come the other one with the SAME engine does not do it?

If it's "normal", then ask them to make the quiet one have the noise. Something is wrong with the quiet one...

Hate it when stealerships come up with the "it's normal" speech. Everytime they have I've taken them to one of the other vehicles on the lot and say "prove it". Make that vehicle do it....

They change their tune right away.

Sorry Colt. Had to vent!

Good luck. Bill

Vent Bill,vent!
No big deal to me.Redline helped.
The noise is pretty much muted and doesn't last too long.
Got a warranty in case.I wouldn't mind having new engine or rebuild down the road if something goes wrong.

 

[deven]

Colt, my dad has a 2007 ES350 and you are correct, the piston slap is horrendous at start-up in this engine. My dad's car is garaged so when he starts it up cold the acoustics in the garage makes it sound like a diesel engine. To be fair though that noise subsides considerably in less than 10 seconds.

I change the oil in that car and have tried lots of different oils including Red Line 5w30 but the one that quiets down the slap most has been Quaker State Q Horsepower 5w30 which I believe is now called Ultimate Durability.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: Colt

Vent Bill,vent!
No big deal to me.Redline helped.
The noise is pretty much muted and doesn't last too long.
Got a warranty in case.I wouldn't mind having new engine or rebuild down the road if something goes wrong.


My ONLY concern is *IF* you had to use the warranty the use of a non-API oil *may* mess with it.

But hopefully its a non issue.

Take care, Bill

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: deven
Colt, my dad has a 2007 ES350 and you are correct, the piston slap is horrendous at start-up in this engine. My dad's car is garaged so when he starts it up cold the acoustics in the garage makes it sound like a diesel engine. To be fair though that noise subsides considerably in less than 10 seconds.

I change the oil in that car and have tried lots of different oils including Red Line 5w30 but the one that quiets down the slap most has been Quaker State Q Horsepower 5w30 which I believe is now called Ultimate Durability.


I'm happy with RL and probably will stay with it but then again, I may try QS.Thanks.
My start up noise wasn't bad compared to some engines I saw and heard on youtube.
Some were brutally loud.

 

[Colt]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: Colt

Vent Bill,vent!
No big deal to me.Redline helped.
The noise is pretty much muted and doesn't last too long.
Got a warranty in case.I wouldn't mind having new engine or rebuild down the road if something goes wrong.


My ONLY concern is *IF* you had to use the warranty the use of a non-API oil *may* mess with it.

But hopefully its a non issue.

Take care, Bill

That's true,Bill.
However,chances of an oil related problem are very small.
I'm on record with the start up noise issue.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: hate2work
Geez, will the problems with these Toyotas never end?


WHAT "problems"??!!

As far as the brainwashed U.S. consumerist populace goes, there are NO "problems" with their deity-like, epitome of perfection, Toyotas.

But of course, let some early GM V-6es/LS1 V-8s make some noise at cold start up and it's time to send them out of business.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: deven
I change the oil in that car and have tried lots of different oils including Red Line 5w30 but the one that quiets down the slap most has been Quaker State Q Horsepower 5w30 which I believe is now called Ultimate Durability.


Interesting. The Q Horsepower is the same thing as Q Torque, right? According to my experiments with oilyzer, Q Torque is ester based oil. Thus, esters apparently work for piston slap.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Update: I got 5qt of Ultimate Durability from AA ($4/qt - $20 rebate) and got it tested in my oilyzer. It tested like typical oil with quality additives, but it is not like Q Torque that tested out of scale due to ester base. I'm disappointed a bit. Will use it though.