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#2384379 - 09/21/11 11:12 PM VOA Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w20 C-P Made
gpshumway Offline


Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 410
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Here's a VOA of the new Conoco-Phillips made Honda Ultimate Full synthetic 0w20. I asked for a VI measurement, but Blackstone had already used up the sample in the flashpoint measurement, so we don't have VI frown . That said this oil is definitely different from the Honda Genuine 0w20 made by Idemitsu which BruceT did a VOA of HERE .

-The KV100 is lower
-The Moly content is lower frown

It also seems to be different from C-P's own 0w20 which claims to have substantial Titanium. PDS HERE .

I put this oil in my new 2011 Civic EX for the first oil change, but I will probably switch to either the Toyota 0w20 or M1 AFE 0w20 with my next change.

At any rate, here's the VOA for what it's worth.

_________________________
2007 Subaru WRX
2011 Honda Civic EX

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#2384396 - 09/21/11 11:24 PM Re: VOA Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w20 C-P Made [Re: gpshumway]
chubbs1 Offline


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4574
Loc: Merritt Island FL, USA
Well too bad the VI didn't come through, that could have been the deal maker. Looks like a good oil but much like the formulation of MotorCraft. Which probably would be your best bet if you wanted a good oil that is solidly proven in Honda's. Boy...they sure changed it's formula though. Thanks for the heads up. I am sure it is a great oil, the cost probably can't justify itself though.
_________________________
'12 Charger SXT
QSUD 5w30 OEM filter

'12 Charger SXT
Edge FST EP 5w30 OEM (Mine;)

'11 Hyundai Sonata GLS
QSUD 5w20 OEM Filter


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#2384423 - 09/21/11 11:45 PM Re: VOA Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w20 C-P Made [Re: gpshumway]
Brons2 Offline


Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 2484
Loc: Austin, Texas
7.9 cSt? Wow that's the lowest I have ever seen, even on an Xw20.
_________________________
Mine: 2007 Kia Rondo LX 2.4 I4 5 pass, MC5K 5w20, OEM filter
Hers: 2010 Rav4 Sport 2.5 I4, M1 5w20, OEM filter

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#2384470 - 09/22/11 01:44 AM Re: VOA Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w20 C-P Made [Re: Brons2]
chubbs1 Offline


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4574
Loc: Merritt Island FL, USA
Originally Posted By: Brons2
7.9 cSt? Wow that's the lowest I have ever seen, even on an Xw20.


True and I would put money Honda will be the first major OEM to use 0w15 or 0w10. I know they are working on it, just ironing out the HTHS and (possible) long term elevated wear issues.
_________________________
'12 Charger SXT
QSUD 5w30 OEM filter

'12 Charger SXT
Edge FST EP 5w30 OEM (Mine;)

'11 Hyundai Sonata GLS
QSUD 5w20 OEM Filter


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#2384517 - 09/22/11 06:13 AM Re: VOA Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w20 C-P Made [Re: gpshumway]
Cup of Joe Offline


Registered: 01/16/06
Posts: 1797
Loc: United We Stand
It appears fairly similar to C-P produced Motorcraft once you correct for lab variation.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2195626

Quote:
ALUMINUM 1
CHROMIUM 0
IRON 1
COPPER 1
LEAD 0
TIN 0
MOLYBDENUM 79
NICKEL 0
MANGANESE 0
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 1
POTASSIUM 5
BORON 234
SILICON 5
SODIUM 1
CALCIUM 2135
MAGNESIUM 10
PHOSPHORUS 740
ZINC 858
BARIUM 0


TBN TOTAL BASE 7.32
VIS 100C CS 8.5
OX 7
NIT 9

_________________________
2011 Ford Ranger 75K dealer installed Motorcraft 5W-20, M1 ATF in the manual trans, M1 Gear lube.

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#2384603 - 09/22/11 08:43 AM Re: VOA Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w20 C-P Made [Re: gpshumway]
Scarface Offline


Registered: 05/04/10
Posts: 19
Loc: Caucasus
this motorcraft analysis for the Synthetic blend oil, not full Synthetic


Edited by Scarface (09/22/11 08:44 AM)
_________________________
Sorry for my English

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#2385197 - 09/22/11 09:08 PM Re: VOA Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w20 C-P Made [Re: gpshumway]
Patman Offline



Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 19275
Loc: Oakville, Ontario
Why would they even bother putting such a small amount of magnesium into this formula? Is 6ppm really going to do anything at all? Might as well be 0ppm, and save them the trouble of adding it in there!
_________________________
2005 Corvette (M1 5w30 & Fram Ultra)
2006 Civic EX Coupe (M1 0w20 & Fram Ultra)
2010 BMW 328i X-Drive (M1 0w40 & Mann filter)

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#2389317 - 09/27/11 11:46 AM Re: VOA Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w20 C-P Made [Re: chubbs1]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9362
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: chubbs1
Originally Posted By: Brons2
7.9 cSt? Wow that's the lowest I have ever seen, even on an Xw20.

True and I would put money Honda will be the first major OEM to use 0w15 or 0w10. I know they are working on it, just ironing out the HTHS and (possible) long term elevated wear issues.

The low KV100 of 7.9cSt doesn't necessarily mean this is a light oil as the HTHSV must still be at least 2.6cP to be labelled a 20wt oil. In fact the low KV100 can simply mean that not a lot of VIIs are used which tend to artificially boost the KV100 spec'.
By comparison the QS syn blend 5W-20 has a KV100 of only 8.0cSt and not surprisingly has a lowish 149 VI; HTHSV is 2.6cP.
The lightest oil on the market is the Toyota Brand 0W-20 and it has a KV100 of 8.8cSt due undoubtedly to it's high VII level.
The Idemitsu made Honda 0W-20 has a KV100 of 8.5cSt but it's actually about 10% heavier at 100C and 25% heavier at 20C than the Nippon Oil made Toyota 0W-20. (That's from first hand experience as I've run and track tested both those oils.)

Member BruceT has also had a VOA done on the COP oil (hasn't posted it) and IIRC the VI is about 172, similar to M1 and Valvoline.
If you want to go with a high VI, high moly oil, the two main choices States side are the Toyota Brand 0W-20 and the Idemitsu made Subaru OW-20.

Oh and gpshumway, thanks for posting this.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

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#2392228 - 09/30/11 11:00 AM Re: VOA Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w20 C-P Made [Re: CATERHAM]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9362
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Correction the VI is 177 so it is still higher than most other OTC 0W-20 oils except the Toyota 0W-20 and the Idemitsu made 0W-20s.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

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#2399660 - 10/08/11 12:30 AM Re: VOA Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w20 C-P Made [Re: CATERHAM]
gpshumway Offline


Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 410
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Member BruceT has also had a VOA done on the COP oil (hasn't posted it) and IIRC the VI is about 172, similar to M1 and Valvoline.
If you want to go with a high VI, high moly oil, the two main choices States side are the Toyota Brand 0W-20 and the Idemitsu made Subaru OW-20.

Oh and gpshumway, thanks for posting this.


Sorry to be away, I was vacationing in an internet wasteland. It was wonderful smile

Bummer to hear the VI is no longer in the 200 range (though 177 isn't bad)

Where did you get the info on the Subaru Oil? If its a bit thicker than the Toyota version it might be my next fill. Given it's made by Idemitsu, maybe it's very similar to the old Honda formulation.

I find it interesting that the Subaru oil is different than the Toyota oil given that Toyota has a substantial stake in Subaru and they have a co-development agreement.
_________________________
2007 Subaru WRX
2011 Honda Civic EX

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#2402999 - 10/11/11 01:40 PM Re: VOA Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w20 C-P Made [Re: gpshumway]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9362
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: gpshumway
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Where did you get the info on the Subaru Oil? If its a bit thicker than the Toyota version it might be my next fill. Given it's made by Idemitsu, maybe it's very similar to the old Honda formulation.

I'm pretty sure the Subaru 0W-20 made by Idemitsu is the same as the Honda 0W-20. One thing we have learned is that the moly level for the SN GF-5 version has been reduced and this info' is from Subaru. So if you can still get the SM oil I'd stock up now.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

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#2403849 - 10/12/11 11:17 AM Re: VOA Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w20 C-P Made [Re: CATERHAM]
gpshumway Offline


Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 410
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Interesting. Got a link to the info from Subaru or a link to a forum where someone contacted Subaru? I've been poking around subaruforester.org to no avail.

Do we know why the SN version of so many oils seems to be a step back from the SM version? Have they now found that moly poisons catcons? Is there something in the SN spec which affects VI? This is not an isolated case.

Edit: Just read the new thread in the PCMO forum. Deposit control = reduced moly. Well, it looks like I'm still searching from my Civic oil.


Edited by gpshumway (10/12/11 11:30 AM)
_________________________
2007 Subaru WRX
2011 Honda Civic EX

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#2448786 - 11/29/11 10:07 PM Re: VOA Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w20 C-P Made [Re: gpshumway]
odie Offline


Registered: 04/27/10
Posts: 1654
Loc: New York
About 3 weeks called Kendall about their full synthetics with titanium and was told by the tech something like , " titanium is less abrasive ( finer ) than moly and that's why we use titanium in our oils " . Maybe others should call CoP about their oils that contain titanium to see if they get a similar answer . Maybe this too is the partial reason for drop in moly levels and the change to titanium for some manufacturers shrug .


Edited by odie (11/29/11 10:10 PM)

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#2451243 - 12/02/11 04:00 PM Re: VOA Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w20 C-P Made [Re: odie]
CATERHAM Offline


Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9362
Loc: Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: odie
" titanium is less abrasive ( finer ) than moly and that's why we use titanium in our oils " Maybe this too is the partial reason for drop in moly levels and the change to titanium for some manufacturers

That's nonsense and Ti has been discussed at length in other specific threads. The consensus is that it is simply a cheaper moly substitute.
Having said that, there is no Ti on the CoP made Honda oil.
_________________________
74 Lotus Europa 5W-50
86 Porsche 928S TGMO 0W-20 25%/M1 0W-40
96 BMW 328i Idemitsu/TGMO 0W-20 70%/M1 0W-40
94 Caterham 7 Sustina 0W-20 80%/0W-50

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#2451630 - 12/02/11 11:28 PM Re: VOA Honda Ultimate Full Synthetic 0w20 C-P Made [Re: gpshumway]
odie Offline


Registered: 04/27/10
Posts: 1654
Loc: New York
Just passing on what I was told by a tech for CoP .

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