Quaker State Ultimate Protection is GTL Based! (or might not be; read full thread)

KCJeep said:
What I posted was pertinent to the Ultimate Protection 20k rated oil. With all the naming games that have gone on some are confusing Ultimate Protection with the former Ultimate Durability. Also not the same as the current Full Synthetic.

I don’t know if the others were/are GTL or not. 🤷‍♂️. The Euro is though.
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Ah, yes. Missed that it was the 20k mi oil you were posting about.
 
Should you also shake it up to mix the sediment- oops, I mean additives like it’s sister oil Pennzoil?
 
PontiacHO said:
Should you also shake it up to mix the sediment- oops, I mean additives like it’s sister oil Pennzoil?
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To be safe it would be a wise move. Like not revving Pontiacs with cast iron crankshafts and connecting rods past 5000 RPM .
 
kschachn said:
Today. But they may have done so in the past and they may do so in the future, just like yellow bottle Pennzoil.
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Isn’t today what matters tho? The future is subject to change. I don’t buy an oil for what it was or might be. I buy an oil for what it’s doing now.
 
Jw95 said:
Quaker state themselves told me they aren’t using gtl base oils.
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They aren't. Except in the Euro 5w40 and the Ultimate Protection lines where it is clearly stated in the SDS they are GTL base. For those the "interchangeable" part that is confusing so many is listed at no more than 10%, with a minimum of 70% GTL.

The Ultimate Durability and Full Synthetic are listed at 90% interchangeable and yes are almost certainly non-GTL Grp III. Although the interchangeable part allows Shell to dump GTL in there when they want to.... which they have done before.

This thread is off the rails, has been edited/modified under my name by third parties and I'm done with it. No good deed goes unpunished on here anymore.
 
KCJeep said:
They aren't. Except in the Euro 5w40 and the Ultimate Protection lines where it is clearly stated in the SDS they are GTL base. For those the "interchangeable" part that is confusing so many is listed at no more than 10%, with a minimum of 70% GTL.

The Ultimate Durability and Full Synthetic are listed at 90% interchangeable and yes are almost certainly non-GTL Grp III. Although the interchangeable part allows Shell to dump GTL in there when they want to.... which they have done before.

This thread is off the rails, has been edited/modified under my name by third parties and I'm done with it. No good deed goes unpunished on here anymore.
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Which is true for that SDS only. SDS are not recipes for formulation and as long as the flammability and toxicity is unchanged those values may or may not be exactly correct. API Annex E is the controlling entity for Group stock interchange and it’s not constrained by the SDS.

That’s the part that seems to be lacking here. It’s backwards to think an SDS dictates formulation. It’s the other way around, and in fact an SDS may not be accurate in this particlar distinction.

As someone who wrote SDS (then MSDS) for a living I think it’s a pretty unreliable means of reading this type of tea leaf.
 
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kschachn said:
Which is true for that SDS only. SDS are not recipes for formulation and as long as the flammability and toxicity is unchanged those values may or may not be exactly correct. API Annex E is the controlling entity for Group stock interchange and it’s not constrained by the SDS.

That’s the part that seems to be lacking here. It’s backwards to think an SDS dictates formulation. It’s the other way around, and in fact an SDS may not be accurate in this particlar distinction.

As someone who wrote SDS (then MSDS) for a living I think it’s a pretty unreliable means of reading this type of tea leaf.
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It's mind boggling how many think that the MSDS is the recipe for the oil.
 
Sandstorm said:
It's mind boggling how many think that the MSDS is the recipe for the oil.
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As @kschachn noted, in this particular instance, for this particular SDS, at the time it was prepared, the product was using GTL (Fischer-Tropsch) base oil. But, the caveat, as I think he's aptly explained, is that because GTL is just a Group III base oil, there's nothing stopping Shell from using any other Group III base in its stead even if it was the next day. Is that likely? No, but it's certainly possible.

As you note, an SDS isn't a recipe, and neither is a VOA for that matter. These sources can be of interest for someone who wants a bit more of a glimpse into what may be in the bottle, but it is important to understand their limitations as well as things like the API BO interchange guide that allows flexibility and means that formulation is not necessarily static.
 
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greg_J35 said:
Thank you KC. I plan to use QSUP after my stash of Total is depleted.
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The formula and SDS will almost certainly change by the time any “stash” is gone. If there’s anything we’ve learned over the years, especially in the lower-priced tiers of SOPUS offerings, is that not only does the documentation change frequently, but sometimes by the time you can find it it’s already obsolete.

I’m not exactly sure why there’s such fascination/fanfare over GTL; as has been mentioned at least 3 times in this thread alone is that since they are interchangeable with other III/III+ base oils tells you that there is no measurable change in performance of the finished oil regardless if it’s GTL or not.

Nobody’s arguing that QSUP isn’t good; it’s just as good as any other oil that carries all of the same certifications and approvals. If it fits your budget and your fancy (and engine recommendations) it will perform just fine.
 
I really hate dipping my head into the PCEO section here. However…


As others noted, GTL can be exchanged with other group III’s without much of a problem.


Other things to consider:

There’s going to be different formulations at different times around the U.S. for products like Quaker State. It’s considered shell’s fighting brand (outside Shell’s “Formula Shell”)

So the blend can and will change region to region. It can also change pretty much without announcement. (And will!)

How much base oils change depends alot on the time. Right now there’s a huge glut of base oils in the U.S. So it’s very realistic that Shell is shoving their GTL oils into everything.

If the GTL dries up for whatever reason, it would make perfect sense that QS gets aramcoULTRA shoved into it. Again, fighting brand. This is what happens.

These deals happen all the time. It’s the reality of the oil industry. It might not be economical at the time for Shell to get GTL over to Gordon terminal. So they’ll use something more economical to that region. Or maybe it is economical and suddenly they’ll be shoving it into everything. Including Rotella. (Rotella gas truck oil anyone?!)

The more you know about oil and the industry. The more you eye roll at things. Just my .02. Yeah, I’m the typical bad news bear. But hey, just the truth.
 
Foxtrot08 said:
I really hate dipping my head into the PCEO section here. However…


As others noted, GTL can be exchanged with other group III’s without much of a problem.


Other things to consider:

There’s going to be different formulations at different times around the U.S. for products like Quaker State. It’s considered shell’s fighting brand (outside Shell’s “Formula Shell”)

So the blend can and will change region to region. It can also change pretty much without announcement. (And will!)

How much base oils change depends alot on the time. Right now there’s a huge glut of base oils in the U.S. So it’s very realistic that Shell is shoving their GTL oils into everything.

If the GTL dries up for whatever reason, it would make perfect sense that QS gets aramcoULTRA shoved into it. Again, fighting brand. This is what happens.

These deals happen all the time. It’s the reality of the oil industry. It might not be economical at the time for Shell to get GTL over to Gordon terminal. So they’ll use something more economical to that region. Or maybe it is economical and suddenly they’ll be shoving it into everything. Including Rotella. (Rotella gas truck oil anyone?!)

The more you know about oil and the industry. The more you eye roll at things. Just my .02. Yeah, I’m the typical bad news bear. But hey, just the truth.
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Same with the 2 dozen EHC buyers - why can’t they slip a small percentage in across thousands of gallons and still call it a synthetic … pretty loose standards for “synthetic” …
 
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