Pennzoil 5-30w SL dino in Taurus

[Bill in Utah]

Hi, First post on the board.

I've been reading the posts and decided to have the oil checked in my well run 1999 Ford Taurus wagon. It's got the 3.0 l v-6 12 valve motor and driven 50 miles one way non stop on the freeway and oil changed every 3000 miles (never make the 3 months).

Terry emailed me the following; (Hopefully it lines up ok)

Dyson Analysis

Oil Brand/Weight : Pennzoil 5w-30 SL Type
Equipment : Ford Taurus Miles/Hours on oil : 3100 Total Miles/Hours : 62600

Results ppm/% Comments (blank=normal)
Wear
Copper 2
Iron 6
Chromium 0
Lead 4
Aluminum 2
Silicon 7
Tin 1

Additives
Molybdenum 71 Unusually high, everybody is using now
Sodium 61 glycol residue
Magnesium 12
Zinc 868
Potassium 2 possible glycol residue
Phosphorus 697
Calcium 1740

Physical Properties
Water negative
Fuel negative
Antifreeze POSITIVE Contamination,repair possible head leak
Soot 0
Oxidation 18 low ,good 9%
Nitration 32 low ,good 16.50%
Sulfur 10 fuel sulfur,low
TBN 5 average,beginning to deplete due to gly
Vis@100 C 14.6 40w,glycol antifreeze is thickening the oil
Final Comments : Alert ! coolant leak, get checked for internal head leak. If checks out OK then sample was contaminated with antifreeze or
glycol. Wear #'s are good, oil is beginning to thicken because of contamination.Should be in 9.3 to 12.5 cSt range to be 30w.
Oil will not hold up much longer before gelling. Contact me with results of leak test and ask any
questions.
Terry

Am in Contact with Ford and my Local Ford dealer to see what they think. They are going to run a test to see if the coolant has any gases in it.

Ford has had some serious headgasket leaks on their 3.8l and I thought that the 3.0l V-6 was not a problem child. Looks like it is.

I've had a few people wonder why I'd spend $25 to check out the oil change that cost under $10.

Above is the reason... I may have caught something before it does some serious damage.

Thanks for the help and any comments.

Excellent board!

Bill

 

[Patman]

Here is yet another oil analysis report which will possibly save the user a ton of money, due to finding out potential engine problems well in advance! Good stuff!

Despite the contamination, the wear numbers are excellent! Makes me even more eager to try out Pennzoil in my wife's car now.

By the way, once you get that coolant leak fixed, you should easily be able to extend the oil change intervals well beyond 3k with the highway driving you are doing.

[ November 12, 2002, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[Pablo]

Wow what a catch! Bummer - but this indeed is a huge beni of analysis. Glad you caught it prior to the bottom end getting all torn up.

 

[Bror Jace]

Utah Bill, I'm the other guy on the board who had traces of glycol in his oil ... 'cept my lead and bottom wear was significantly greater than yours. Consider yourself very lucky because your wear numbers are actually quite good ... consistent with a highway driven car and 3,000 mile oil drain intervals. I think the newest Pennzoil formulation (with 80ppms of moly) helped a good deal as well.

Unfortunately, my Honda Civic hasn't been the same since my head gasket work

and I'm having it looked at by the shop which did the work next week. I'm hoping it's merely a valve and/or timing adjustment.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Patman]

This Pennzoil does look like a very good oil, and it gives me a lot of hope, as I have definitely decided to run Pennzoil 5w20 in my wife's Honda for a few intervals, then Pennzoil 10w30, then Pennzoil 5w30 (to compare wear numbers between viscosities of the same oil)

If Royal Purple sends me that oil it'll go in my mom's Probe GT instead (which was going to be the SuperSyn test bed originally, since it's run nothing but Mobil 1 since new)

 

[TomL]

Hi Bill. Before you took it to $dealership$ did you just try to resample again to see if what Terry said "If checks out OK then sample was contaminated with antifreeze or
glycol." might be the case? After being at tauruscarclub.com for over 3 years I can't specifically recall one incident, in the repair forum, where somebody had a head gasket issue on the 3.0 Vulcan. On the 3.8, that's another story. My '97 Taurus with the Vulcan is still goin strong with 127k miles (knock on wood) and even the tranny (knock harder).

I'm just wondering if you rechecked it because although I haven't had a TON of dealer experiences, most of the ones I've had (at different dealerships) weren't very pleasant. Needless to say I really wouldn't trust ANYTHING a dealer says because I doubt very many hang out at places like this. Good luck, and hopefully that $1100, and rising, isn't putting TOO much of a dent on your pocketbook cuz it certainly would for us!

 

[Bill in Utah]

Tom,

We did check the coolant and it did show positive for a head leak of somekind.

I can't afford $100 into this car much less $1100! I bought it 2 years ago with 21k and it's been a pretty good car. I did tell the dealer when I bought it that I smelled oil/coolant in the engine bay and they just did the "no problem found" deal.

I'm convinced that it's had a head gasket leak (I know the 3.8 ltr is a problem child, looking like the 3.0 is too

) was there since I bought the car. But I am really disapointed with the dealer. They charge $65 per hour and FORGET TO CHECK for leaks and Big brackets to be mounted.

Tomarrow am, I'm going to the dealer and some managers and I are going to have a little talk....

about how to do things.

Thanks, Bill
PS: Wish I could afford to sell off the car and get something else.. We love the car, but now are very concerned with the dependable Car we used to have.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Hi Guys...

Update. Took Car to Ford Dealer that I bought it from and they ran the test and found that something was getting into the coolant.

So, After calling Ford Care

and speaking to 3 different people (One good, one who did not know anything and one who should hope to never meet me ) they said that the car needs to be further torn down and see what is wrong before they can say if they will help me.

So, The dealer tears apart the car, Can't see anything wrong with the gaskets. Had the heads checked and nothing wrong. So they put remanafactured heads on it and put back together.

The cost was little over $1100.

Then I go to pick up and start the car. Squealing from the belt area and I lift open the hood and the front bank left side freeze plus has Coolant dripping out of it.

Dealer says let them keep it and they will fix it.

Get it back a day later and they replaced the freeze plug, (I'm wondering how long these parts are going to last) and Belt. They sprayed something thick on the freeze plug area and it's not sticky. Car looks and sounds good so I take it home.

Drive it to work (54 miles one way) and get to work and look under the hood and the right side of the front bank is dripping coolant from behind the power steering bracket (can't see that freeze plug) and look under the car and you can see a trail of coolant all along the frame rail towards the back. Very little leak but you can see it.

So, Bring it home and change the oil (got to get the oil with coolant out asap) and will take to the dealer for more help....

I'm really concerned with the "fix" and how long with the car go before it had a major problem due to the repairs.

Oh, Forgot to note. While changing the oil, They have a 10" bracket that goes from the water pump to the Bracket that holds the Alternator bracket is swing down missing the crank pulley by 1/2 inch...

Anyone want a referance to a good Ford Dealer?

Sorry if this is

...

Take care all and thanks for the replies.

Bill

 

[Bill in Utah]

Going to keep this in the same thread...

As I stated before, I got the Car fixed and got most of the problems fixed with the dealer. Real poor dealer!

Once I got the car back,I drove it 100 miles and drained the oil that had about 2000 miles since the last oil change that Terry caught the anti-freeze leak.

Then went 1250 miles on Pennzoil 5w-30 sl dino and changed it. My plan was to take a sample and send it off to Schaeffers for a test, See how that looks and if that test comes back ok, Drain at 3000 miles and have Terry run a Analysis. ( I have a unused kit and hopefully it is still good?)

The info is below.

65,750 on unit.
Ford 3.0 Ltr V-6
1,250 miles on oil (Pennzoil 5w-30 SL Dino)
Motorcraft filter

Copper - 1
Iron - 13
Chromium 0
Aluminum 2
Lead - 2

Moly -87
Phosphorus 1124
Zinc -1104
Magnesuim 62
Calcium-2279
Sodium -Blank
Boron - Blank

%Antifreeze .0

Fuel Dilution None
%H2o - .0
Silicon - 86 (They flagged this... Guess its due to top end of car being taken apart? )

Viscosity - 9.26
SAE - 30wt
Sulfer - 24
Oxidation - 0
Nitration - 0


So, I'm about 500 miles from having 3000 miles since this last test. Should I?

A. Keep the oil in till 4000 miles and have Terry Test it?

B. Change at 3000 miles and have Terry test it?

C. Trade it on a GM Product?

Car is Running well. Puffs a little smoke when being started for the first in the AM. Temps in the garage is 40 degrees. Has used about 1/4 of a quart maybe in the 2700 miles since the oil change. Driven 80% highway (incl a 350 mile 75 mph jaunt to Las Vegas and return the next day) and Fuel Milage is lower than normal (about 3 mpg less)

Still waiting for Ford to tell me that Quality is Job #1 and they stand behind their cars...

(because everyone knows a car should not require a top end overhaul at 61k miles)

Thanks in advance for any comments!

Bill

 

[Patman]

The thing that concerns me is that despite what the lab says, this is no longer 5w30 oil, it's thinned to a 5w20 now. Pretty scary for just 1250 miles. It's got a lot of moly in it though.

I'd change it at 3k this time just to double check to make sure it hasn't thinned out a LOT.

[ January 15, 2003, 05:23 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[Bill in Utah]

Patman,


Thanks for the reply. I'm wondering if the lab may be in error?

Your correct that if the oil is thinning out to 20 wt in only 1,250 miles... What is 3k going to look like?

I'll get it out at 3000 miles and send for a test. Hopefully the turnaround will be quicker than the 4 weeks it took.

Thanks again! Looks like we got the Head Leak fixed?

Bill

 

[Chris]

Why not try some 10-30 instead of the 5-30?

 

[Bill in Utah]

It gets cold here some times (WELL below zero) with the car sitting outside for 10 hours at a time and with my better half who gets in the car and if it sees 30 secs of idle before she takes off the car is luckly.

It's less than a mile to the freeway and then 75mph for 20 mins for her and she is at work.

I figure that the 5w-30 is doing a good job protecting looking at the 2 previous Test results with wear numbers.


This year durning the summer, I will go to 10-30 for the first time as it does stay in the 90s most of June, July and Aug.

Thanks, Bill

 

[Patman]

If it's getting below 0F I sure wouldn't be comfortable running a conventional 5w30 in there. You might want to consider going with something that has better cold weather performance (such as a full synthetic or blend)

 

[bluedevils]

patman, what negatives do you see running a conventional 5W30 in 0F or below? Is it increased wear at startup, or just plain difficulty in turning the engine over because the oil's not flowing well enough, or what? I saw a post from you yesterday in a different thread that said any oil, even conventional, that has moly will protect on startup (I'm paraphrasing here). My thought would be a conventional 5W30, maybe even a 10W30, with moly should be a sufficient choice in cold weather.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

How many places in the lower 48 get below zero degrees Fahrenheit? I think that synthetic oil is just made for our friends way up north (like Patman) and they want us to use it so the demand remains constant and supplies won't dry up!

 

[Patman]

In the area that I live, just outside of Toronto, it rarely does go below 0F however north of here it can get quite colder.

The problem with most conventional 5w30s is that their pour point is usually only about -25 to -30F, which means their borderline pumping temperature is just a little below zero. So during this time you'll have a harder time cranking and I would assume a lot more wear as well due to the thicker oil.


It's true, an oil with moly will definitely help reduce the cold start wear, however the wear would be reduced even further with an oil that has both moly and flows better in cold.

One thing that did it for me was when I did a backyard test a few years ago where I put out a few different oils in extreme cold (it was about -10F outside if I remember correctly) overnight, and then in the morning I poured them out of their bottles to see how they flowed. The 5w30 and 10w30 conventionals (I can't recall for sure which brands) were very thick, pouring like molasses, while the 5w30 and 10w30 synthetics (Mobil 1 in this case) flowed very easily.

I know it's not the most scientific test but I think you guys in colder weather might want to try this test with the oils you are using, and a few other oils, just for comparison. It can be a real eye opener.

It's going to get very cold up here over the next week so I may just try this test out again.

 

[Bill in Utah]

I work till 2am and the car sits outside in the parking lot.

Never had a problem with the car turning over.
True it's not below zero every night, but it's in the low teens for 2-3 months at night and can get single digits for a month at a time.

I've seen 20+ below for a solid week at nights... (And those days the car did start up pretty well, But I will admit the Mobil 1 5w-30 in the V-8 in my Silverado liked that weather better)

Luckly it warmed up to zero durning the day!

And with this Ford, I would not spend the money for Full synthetic oil in it. Does not make sense since it's looking that I'll have to put $1200 (or more) in it every 60k miles like I have had too so far.

(--- My Taurus at 120k (hopefully it makes it that far) and (because I will not put another $ in it if it coughs..)

thanks guys. Bill

 

[Patman]

Bill, if you're not having problems starting, then continue what you're doing now.

Even though you probably would see better results with synthetic, if I take a step back and review your results again, the wear numbers look very good, so it's not as if your engine is getting harmed with what you are doing.

As much as I prefer synthetics myself, I'm also the first to admit that there are some incredible oil analysis results out there with conventional oils too. Thanks again for sharing yours with us! The more data we get the better we learn.

 

[JonS]

Pennzoil, Havoline, Citgo, Chevron all have pour points of -45fand borderline pumping at -35f. that is very good. Here in MN now we have lows of -10f at night with highs of 10f. Next week will be our coldest of the year with highs around -5f. I feel very comfortable using my Havoline with a borderline pumping of -35f. Many synthetics (Quaker State, Pennz ect)are at the same specs as conventional. The all have to meet the same specs to be a 5w-xx. It doesn't matter if its syn or dino. There are not different specs for both. Is there?