UOA Castrol Euro (mix 0w30 & 0w40) in 2007 Subaru EJ25 after ~4770 miles

[Impatient]

UOA of the (roughly) 50-50% mix of Castrol 0w30 and 0w40. I will ask them to do a GC fuel dilution test, like I specifically asked for originally. Oil Analysers comments are crap, but I like that they do nitration, oxidation, and usually do GC fuel. But I don’t think they did the GC fuel this time, possibly because visc was “up to snuff” (sounds like Blackstone in a way), but they show the oil as 0w30, ignoring my comments it was a mix so “virgin visc“ was higher. It did lose a little visc: down to 11.9 .

Spoiler alert, single digit wear metals again (dang!!!), no surprises. No failure or real anomaly vs straight 0w-30. I will have to explain the Sodium anomaly from the previous UOA which I did not upload at the time. (I think I know why that happened). Prior to previous interval, I replaced an oil filter/oil cooler sleeve o-ring, and did a “test“ fill to check for leaks, the test fill was a very old Valvoline conventional; drained and refilled with Castrol Euro again after the test (I don’t remember if that was straight 0w30 or a mix 30 with 40). After getting the shocking UOA result, I researched and found some evidence old Valvoline of SM (?) vintage was very high in Sodium. I’m hoping that was the cause. Wish pb were zero, but hasn’t been for quite some time. 2ppm ain’t a catastrophe though.

but why in the Hades can’t OA get it through their heads that Castrol Edge includes Titanium, and it’s not a wear metal. And they mislabeled sample as (straight) 0w30, there was maybe 1/2 qt make-up, not 1 qt, and the sump is 4.25-4.5, not 4. hmmm, what else is wrong?

dang I wish my Ford Ecoboost had similar results. At 1/2 the mileage, the Ecoboost UOA results absolutely suck compared to the Subaru’s.

 

[himemsys]

They have canned settings for the oil, so a 50-50 mix isn't an option. Also, for sump capacity, they only let you input whole numbers, so I had to do the same thing on my most recent UOA. Capacity is 3.7, but I chose 4 qts since that was the nearest whole number.

What's weird is in my UOA, I picked the my oil (M1 ESP 5W30) in the Equipment Management section for my car, and that seemed to keep them from flagging my oxidation as high. This oil starts at 30 oxidation, and my result was 32, and they didn't flag it as high. I took that to mean they knew the starting oxidation based on my oil setting in the Equipment Management. I guess if I were in your shoes, I'd pick one of the two oils in Equipment Management prior to sending your sample and see if that gets them to not complain about the Titanium.

 

[fantastic]

UOA of the (roughly) 50-50% mix of Castrol 0w30 and 0w40. I will ask them to do a GC fuel dilution test, like I specifically asked for originally. Oil Analysers comments are crap, but I like that they do nitration, oxidation, and usually do GC fuel. But I don’t think they did the GC fuel this time, possibly because visc was “up to snuff” (sounds like Blackstone in a way), but they show the oil as 0w30, ignoring my comments it was a mix so “virgin visc“ was higher. It did lose a little visc: down to 11.9 .

Spoiler alert, single digit wear metals again (dang!!!), no surprises. No failure or real anomaly vs straight 0w-30. I will have to explain the Sodium anomaly from the previous UOA which I did not upload at the time. (I think I know why that happened). Prior to previous interval, I replaced an oil filter/oil cooler sleeve o-ring, and did a “test“ fill to check for leaks, the test fill was a very old Valvoline conventional; drained and refilled with Castrol Euro again after the test (I don’t remember if that was straight 0w30 or a mix 30 with 40). After getting the shocking UOA result, I researched and found some evidence old Valvoline of SM (?) vintage was very high in Sodium. I’m hoping that was the cause. Wish pb were zero, but hasn’t been for quite some time. 2ppm ain’t a catastrophe though.

but why in the Hades can’t OA get it through their heads that Castrol Edge includes Titanium, and it’s not a wear metal. And they mislabeled sample as (straight) 0w30, there was maybe 1/2 qt make-up, not 1 qt, and the sump is 4.25-4.5, not 4. hmmm, what else is wrong?

dang I wish my Ford Ecoboost had similar results. At 1/2 the mileage, the Ecoboost UOA results absolutely suck compared to the Subaru’s.

Bringing this over from your duplicate post...

Everything looks really good here & the oil is doing it's job well. You're incorrect about the Titanium though. It is also a wear metal but I do understand your frustration. They are showing it as a Mult-Wear metal which is correct. They should know Castrol's amounts & flag it more appropriately. Keep it up! Thanks

 

[Impatient]

They have canned settings for the oil, so a 50-50 mix isn't an option. Also, for sump capacity, they only let you input whole numbers, so I had to do the same thing on my most recent UOA. Capacity is 3.7, but I chose 4 qts since that was the nearest whole number.

What's weird is in my UOA, I picked the my oil (M1 ESP 5W30) in the Equipment Management section for my car, and that seemed to keep them from flagging my oxidation as high. This oil starts at 30 oxidation, and my result was 32, and they didn't flag it as high. I took that to mean they knew the starting oxidation based on my oil setting in the Equipment Management. I guess if I were in your shoes, I'd pick one of the two oils in Equipment Management prior to sending your sample and see if that gets them to not complain about the Titanium.

Well, I learned something…that they had these canned options, if you can submit electronically, and that their website doesn’t like iPads…or maybe it’s finicky for everyone. This is a laudable effort, but probably futile. Oil co’s are bringing out new “models” faster than anyone can keep up with. For instance, both my oils mixed were 0w-x0 A3/B4 Euro (the 0w30 is SL, and the 0w40 is SN). I checked Castrol’s pds’s and “Euro Car” is a new C3, SP variant. it’s hard to find the 0w40 SN PDS, only an Australian PDS, which could be the same….or not. There is now a 0w40 PA, which is different (and I think SP). Now, if everyone religiously paid double to get a VOA and UOA, maybe they could keep up. Again laudable, but probably futile.

I did want to prove (to myself) that mixing these 2 Euro oils wouldn’t cause an issue, though i mixed more because of supply chain issues than anything else. Of course, a UOA might not reveal everything, but these 2 were “kissing cousins.”

 

[Impatient]

Well, maybe I’m wrong about “Euro Car” being SP & C3. Wrong again. Though apparently there is an C3 version. Again, so many flavors.

 

[himemsys]

Well, maybe I’m wrong about “Euro Car” being SP & C3. Wrong again. Though apparently there is an C3 version. Again, so many flavors.

Their 5W-30 K Euro Car is SP and C3.

https://www.castrol.com/en_us/united-states/home/motor-oil-and-fluids/engine-oils/motor-engine-oil-brands/castrol-edge-brand/castrol-edge-euro-car.html#tab_5W-30%20k

https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/EAAB9E2EA777CACD80258790006131EF/$File/wepp-c8vpqk.pdf

 

[Impatient]

So, let me ask:

1) is there any reason to use a C3 (or any Cx) oil in this turbo Subaru vs an A3/B4 oil? however, I’m convinced (rightly or wrongly) that A3/B4 oils are better for it than A1/B1 or A5/B5, or ILSAC-only oils.
2) is there any reason to use a C3 (or any Cx) oil in my gen1 Ford 3.5 Ecoboost? (Turbo direct injection, IVD, fuel dilution prone, stretchy chain, finicky cam phasers, etc)? Is there any reason to use (or not use) an A3/B4?

I'm conflating C3 with later Mercedes, Porsche, VW specs, but someone put the notion in my head that these are mostly for use with DPF or GPF systems, and might have other compromises vs A3/B4…which were also driven by Mercedes, Porsche, and VW in earlier times. Again, even though a Subaru or Ecoboost is not from one of those 3 manufacturers, and obviously do not have a GPF, perhaps their stringent standards help the lowly Ford or Subaru.

anyone got a link to an article for dummies…to clarify these perceptions / misconceptions? I remember Amsoil tech steered my more towards SS for the Ecoboost, and specifically away from their euro oils, and to some extent, so did Dave from HPL. I didn’t ask either about the Subaru. The Amsoil guy might just have been reading a script though…or maybe there is a real reason. I think Dave was just telling me their “lowly” PCMO was good enough, though after we hung up, I still had the perception their better grades had some advantage in a fuel-diluting environment.

 

[himemsys]

So, let me ask:

1) is there any reason to use a C3 (or any Cx) oil in this turbo Subaru vs an A3/B4 oil? however, I’m convinced (rightly or wrongly) that A3/B4 oils are better for it than A1/B1 or A5/B5, or ILSAC-only oils.
2) is there any reason to use a C3 (or any Cx) oil in my gen1 Ford 3.5 Ecoboost? (Turbo direct injection, IVD, fuel dilution prone, stretchy chain, finicky cam phasers, etc)? Is there any reason to use (or not use) an A3/B4?

I'm conflating C3 with later Mercedes, Porsche, VW specs, but someone put the notion in my head that these are mostly for use with DPF or GPF systems, and might have other compromises vs A3/B4…which were also driven by Mercedes, Porsche, and VW in earlier times. Again, even though a Subaru or Ecoboost is not from one of those 3 manufacturers, and obviously do not have a GPF, perhaps their stringent standards help the lowly Ford or Subaru.

anyone got a link to an article for dummies…to clarify these perceptions / misconceptions? I remember Amsoil tech steered my more towards SS for the Ecoboost, and specifically away from their euro oils, and to some extent, so did Dave from HPL. I didn’t ask either about the Subaru. The Amsoil guy might just have been reading a script though…or maybe there is a real reason. I think Dave was just telling me their “lowly” PCMO was good enough, though after we hung up, I still had the perception their better grades had some advantage in a fuel-diluting environment.

A3/B4 vs. C3:

Both call for HTHS greater than or equal to 3.5.
C3 has more restrictions for exhaust/emissions systems, meaning it has lower sulfated ash.
A3/B4 has higher TBN requirements, so should be able to run for longer intervals.

I think you already know all that, but the bottom line is C3 oil should give similar protection while being safer for your emissions system, at the expense of not having as extended in OCI.

Not sure if you've seen this already, but it might be helpful:

Relative Performance Comparison Tool for Passenger Car Specifications - Engine Oil Additives - The Lubrizol Corporation

online.lubrizol.com

 

[Impatient]

Yes, I’ve seen the Lubrizol tool, but I’m not sure I know how to use it appropriately. I’ve heard it is misused as often as appropriately used. This has probably been hashed over repeatedly. it might be the perfect tool for dummies…and potentially only dummies…or those who understand it’s limitations.

IMHO, as a dummy, it works to compare (as an example) the MB 229.31, .51, .61, .71 to each other. And maybe the .51 to the .52, and the 2016 version of each to the more recent 2019. But one comparison that I believe fails is the 229.71 to the .52. I have a hard time believing the .71 with an HTHS as low as 2.6 has as good wear control as the .52 with HTHS minimum of 3.5…but that is what the chart would have you believe.

similarly would a A5/B5 with an HTHS as low as 2.6, have as good wear control as a A3/B4 with a 3.7 HTHS?

It was fun to play with it again, and maybe I even learned something. But it doesn’t tell me why a C3 oil is better than a A3/B4…unless I have a DPF.

so, I’m looking for something different than the Lubrizol chart…I think…or I need to learn how to better use it.

question: how would the chart depict HPL PCMO? vs the best 229.52? vs the worst 229.52? vs HPL Euro vs HPL NoVII? Or Amsoil SS vs Amsoil Euro. Does the chart even tell us if any A3B4 2021 oils are inferior for wear to to a 229.52? Maybe, maybe not. That said, its totally, totally possible that the best oil meets or exceeds 229.52 or .71.

 

[kschachn]

question: how would the chart depict HPL PCMO? vs the best 229.52? vs the worst 229.52? vs HPL Euro vs HPL NoVII? Or Amsoil SS vs Amsoil Euro. Does the chart even tell us if any A3B4 2021 oils are inferior for wear to to a 229.52? Maybe, maybe not. That said, its totally, totally possible that the best oil meets or exceeds 229.52 or .71.

It doesn't compare oils, it compares approvals and Sequences within each other. And the resulting spider charts aren't specific to a brand nor are they absolute numbers of any sort. They illustrate areas of emphasis only.

 

[Impatient]

It doesn't compare oils, it compares approvals and Sequences within each other. And the resulting spider charts aren't specific to a brand nor are they absolute numbers of any sort. They illustrate areas of emphasis only.s

Right.

but it’s so tempting to interpret that since the MB 229.52 or .71 extend outward on the chart so far, they must be better than an oil, excuse me, a standard, whose chart goes only 1/2 way outward…and god forbid, an SL oil….or check out the chart for CF.

but the questions for me remain, which approval or sequence represents the best approach for an older Subaru Turbo (not DI, but can still gunk up, and probably appreciates higher HTHS…HTHS is not really represented on the chart), which I’m not trying to run extended interval on, by today’s standard, though extended vs factory spec). Does anyone see an advantage of Mobil 1 ESP vs Mobil 1 FS (0w40)? I think that would be the shortcut question.

and perhaps off topic here, but even more confounding for me: my other vehicle, a gen1 Ford Ecoboost with a history of moderate fuel dilution, nitration, timing chain stretch. and some vulnerability to all the usual TGDI issues (like IVD): what standard best addresses it’s many issues. Same certainly Ford‘s gas 5w30 standard, which doesn’t even show up in the drop down, doesn’t represent a very high bar. And I insist on running it for 8k miles over the summer to avoid an oil change while on my extended summer vacation: Same simplistic (surrogate) question: does the C3 Mobil ESP represent any advantage over the A3/B4 FS 0w40? Would the ESP even last 8,000 miles?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

So, let me ask:

1) is there any reason to use a C3 (or any Cx) oil in this turbo Subaru vs an A3/B4 oil? however, I’m convinced (rightly or wrongly) that A3/B4 oils are better for it than A1/B1 or A5/B5, or ILSAC-only oils.
2) is there any reason to use a C3 (or any Cx) oil in my gen1 Ford 3.5 Ecoboost? (Turbo direct injection, IVD, fuel dilution prone, stretchy chain, finicky cam phasers, etc)? Is there any reason to use (or not use) an A3/B4?

I'm conflating C3 with later Mercedes, Porsche, VW specs, but someone put the notion in my head that these are mostly for use with DPF or GPF systems, and might have other compromises vs A3/B4…which were also driven by Mercedes, Porsche, and VW in earlier times. Again, even though a Subaru or Ecoboost is not from one of those 3 manufacturers, and obviously do not have a GPF, perhaps their stringent standards help the lowly Ford or Subaru.

anyone got a link to an article for dummies…to clarify these perceptions / misconceptions? I remember Amsoil tech steered my more towards SS for the Ecoboost, and specifically away from their euro oils, and to some extent, so did Dave from HPL. I didn’t ask either about the Subaru. The Amsoil guy might just have been reading a script though…or maybe there is a real reason. I think Dave was just telling me their “lowly” PCMO was good enough, though after we hung up, I still had the perception their better grades had some advantage in a fuel-diluting environment.

ACEA Cx oils are to be used with low sulphur fuels. The US has had ULSG since 2020 and a couple of automakers have been using ACEA Cx oils prior to that date for 10k mile OCI's.

A3/B4 vs A1/B1 or A5/B5 are essentially the same other than having a higher minimum HTHS.

TBN is less of a thing when using ULSG.

 

[Impatient]

Sorry guys, I seem to keep double posting…more or less. hopefully this isn’t a “senior moment“ thing…hopefully only an Apple iPad (used by a Senior) on BITOG thing.