The morality of riding a bike married with kids

[hpb]

I have been riding on the road for the last 25 years. I have young kids. My wife often rides pillion with me. My eldest son often rides pillion with me. When they're old enough, I'll encourage all my kids to get their bike licence. Everyday is just a roll of the dice for all of us, so I make sure to go through life doing the things I love - riding a motorcycle is one of those things!

As to whether it's moral - give me a break.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
95% of the time down here it's a careless driver that makes a left turn in front of a motorcycle and causes the accident.

I know a nurse that her husband was killed this way.


A lot of my coworkers and buddies ride. Every year or so I hear them talk about riding and I get to thinking about it and ramp up my research on what to start out with, classes to take, etc. Without fail, soon after my interest is reignited, I see someone get smashed or nearly smashed.

Most recently, a young kid in a turning lane made a u-turn right in front of a bike. He ignored his red turning arrow and went based on the straight-lane's green light. We also had a green light, and the bike who was in the lane next to me smashed right into the car. I got out to help the guy, and wrap up his bloody hands and legs (mostly superficial wounds, except for some nasty lacerations on his hands.) As an aside, neither knew what had happened or where to lay blame. Luckily, another lady and I gave a full account of the accident to the cops.

Before then, I saw some numb nut last minute realize that he had to exit to the left. He cut across two lanes and nearly took out a couple of bikers. The male biker was a little behind and reacted more quickly, but the female biker was almost hit, reacting at the last moment to brake hard and get out of the way. At that speed and with the suddenness of the lane change, she would have been dead had that moron hit her.

There are countless other times where people I know talk about lost loved ones, but these were the two most recent times that my ramp up to buy a bike came to a sudden halt.

Now that I have a wife and kid, a bike isn't even a consideration.

My dad, who was smashed between two big rigs before I was born, talks about possibly getting back into biking. His left leg is half the size of his right due his preferential use based on the pain caused by it having been snapped in half way back when. I can justify my desire to want to ride, because I'm ignorant to most of the harsher realities, but he literally only lived because he was wearing his protective gear and got lucky. To want to ride is a strong desire, though I know my dad's desire most likely won't ever actual result in him biking again.

 

[02SE]

I guess I'd better not describe what I did yesterday, and will be doing for the next couple of weeks.

I wouldn't want to be considered 'immoral'.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: Silk
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I ride mostly with groups.


I most certainly do not! I have ridden with groups....someone always crashes, if they don't, other people do really stupid things. Last group I rode with were pretty good, we spaced ourselves about 400 metres apart, often you couldn't see the person in front or behind.


Get better friends.

 

[sm00thpapa]

I'm married with 3 kids and still ride very cautiously. My stunts and speeding days were over years ago. My mom and wife been nagging me forever to get rid of my bike. I plan on riding till the lord brings me home. And if it's on my bike so be it. Ride safe everyone.

 

[Silk]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Get better friends.

I don't have enough friends to make a group. Even when bikes were my social scene, it was always just me and a bike, out on the road all by myself. It's my stress relief....zone out, zen, alpha etc, or the opposite, expressing anger, pushing my limits, getting as much out of the bike and myself as possible. And then, I work on them, rebuild, modify, adapt, chop, change, pull it apart again, and put it together again. Rainy sunday today....welding patches in a JD mower deck, I pulled the back wheel out of the bike and fitted another tyre while waiting for paint to dry.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
motorcycles are hamburger machines. it turns you into hamburger. if you enjoy being transformed into hamburger, buy a motorcycle.


If you spend your life wearing one of these...are you really LIVING?

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Re "moral"

was discussing with a guy at work what's "moral" when it comes to big houses, toys, and debt based financing thereof...and what happens at the end.

We settled where leaving his wife destitute in hopeless debt was immoral, while having enough equity in the assets that while she may not be able to service the debt, she could downsize to a comfortable existance was moral.

I think this is in that continuum.

If it's a toy and a hobby, and you've got enough "stuff" in place that your family could get along OK without you, you're on the moral high ground. If your passing would have them on the street, then it's unfair/immoral...and every person is likely in that gray area between.


This is exactly what I was getting at, although it goes beyond that.
Why should anyone's children grow up without a parent just because he knowingly made a transportation choice with significant marginal risk attached to it?
For that matter, how many people in their child-rearing years have enough equity in any form to provide for their families should they die? Most people don't even bother to do the math and then buy sufficient term life insurance.
It isn't all about me and what I'd like to do.
It's also about those who depend upon me in ways including and beyond earning power.
That this is a moral question seems to escape many.

 

[Mr Nice]

When kids are young you have life insurance to cover those 'what if' situations in life when spouse dies suddenly.

I see your point of view that biker is not thinking about his family to have a motorcycle as a toy when he has a safer means of transportation.

 

[fdcg27]

What also gets me is that there are so many unmanageable risks involved in riding on the street. I've come really close to clocking deer a few times on my drive to work and I often find some fool four feet off my back bumper playing with a phone.
You cannot manage many of the risks inherent to road riding.
I do and have long done certain things that do involve greater risk of death than driving to work, like flying light aircraft and scuba. The difference is that the risks in either are very easily managed by what you decide to do and with what equipment, training and skill level you approach either activity.
I wouldn't contemplate really deep mixed gas deco dives, for example, nor would I fly an uncertified aircraft or launch in anything other than good VFR conditions, which is commensurate with my skill level and experience. You can use good judgment to manage risk in either diving or flying. When the risk involves animals and other drivers, there is nothing you can manage.

 

[Mr Nice]

fdgc27,

How old are you ?
Just wondering...

The older and wiser you get, the less risks you take.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: hpb
I have been riding on the road for the last 25 years. I have young kids. My wife often rides pillion with me. My eldest son often rides pillion with me. When they're old enough, I'll encourage all my kids to get their bike licence. Everyday is just a roll of the dice for all of us, so I make sure to go through life doing the things I love - riding a motorcycle is one of those things!

As to whether it's moral - give me a break.


Agreed; to paraphrase the great Brock Yates, I'm not going to hide behind the curtains in my fireproof pajamas praying I don't get a hangnail...

 

[fdcg27]

I have a dozen years on Shannow, as I indicated earlier in the thread in a reply to him.
It is a bit of a conundrum, though, isn't it?
When we're young, we behave as though we are unbreakable and immortal. I know that I did.
As we get older, we grow more cautious.
In terms of years of life lost, we have much more to lose at twenty than we do at sixty.
Maybe we simply realize later on just how precious each of those remaining years is?

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Odds of dying from various causes

I don't see where motorcyclists have a 26X higher rate of mortality than from an automobile. This graphic shows a motorcyclist having about the same odds as drying. And better survival rates than pedestrians, car occupant, car driver, and falls. It's well down the list.


Given that's the average across the population, it's not hard to see the difference.

300M people are car occupants, and have a 1 in 606 chance of dying in one.

You have a 1 in 948 chance of dying in a motorcycle accident as a citizen of the US, but 90% of citizens don't ride, so you have to reduce the population to those who ride...number that I've got are 1:36 people are motorcyclists in the US.

So the 1:948 becomes 1948/36), which is about 1:26 RIDERS.

1:606 versus 1:26 is 23 times as likely to die as a participant in the activity.


People seem to almost never take into account ratios when they read stats. It's like they just don't think.

And then if you turn to common sense....you'd have to be suffering brain damage (maybe from crashing a motorcycle?) not to realize that riding bikes are far more dangerous than driving a car.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: hpb
I have been riding on the road for the last 25 years. I have young kids. My wife often rides pillion with me. My eldest son often rides pillion with me. When they're old enough, I'll encourage all my kids to get their bike licence. Everyday is just a roll of the dice for all of us, so I make sure to go through life doing the things I love - riding a motorcycle is one of those things!

As to whether it's moral - give me a break.


Agreed; to paraphrase the great Brock Yates, I'm not going to hide behind the curtains in my fireproof pajamas praying I don't get a hangnail...


You sound like a person that knows the risks, but chooses instead to place the enjoyment of riding as more important to you than those risks. Including the lives of your family members. That is fine...you have the perfect right to make those choices and should not be put down or slighted because of those choices.

BUT....because an individual makes other choices and places safety and longevity over motorcycling....is there really a reason to slight them for that choice? I know, like everybody else on the internet, you'll just say that you didn't slight anybody. But c'mon, your quote is insulting. I used to ride for years. I enjoyed it. Sometimes I miss it, but not much. It became far too risky where I live and as I grew older I became more realistic in the idea that the odds would catch up to me someday. Does that mean I hide away not enjoying life? Hardly. I actually enjoy life now more than ever.

 

[SatinSilver]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
fdgc27,

How old are you ?
Just wondering...

The older and wiser you get, the less risks you take.


He is 60.

 

[Al]

I stopped riding when I had kids started back up 15 years ago. I don't know anyone that hasn't laid their bike down (on the road)

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Al
I don't know anyone that hasn't laid their bike down (on the road)

I rode for 5 years, and I never laid it down. But it was likely just a matter of time. I figured I'd quit while I was still ahead.

 

[grampi]

There are 3 rules I live by when it comes to riding motorcycles and it's probably why I'm still alive after more than 45 years of riding.

1) Always assume that none of the other drivers see you.

2) Always have a plan A and a plan B in case something happens. Having only one course of evasive action may not be enough.

3) Know your own limitations.

Failure to adhere to rule #3 gets most young riders. Youth, and the corresponding feeling of invincibility kills a lot of young bikers. If you can get through this stage and live to be a more experienced rider, your chances of surviving greatly increases. Then all you gotta worry about are all the other idiots...

 

[OneEyeJack]

There is one other thing to consider. If you quit riding when you're young, inexperienced and foolish you're hurting the various organ donor programs. They depend on young riders to continue their work.