fdcg27 Both of the guys I know said:
The morality of riding a bike married with kids
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Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: Silk
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Both of the guys I know, the one who died and the one who remains in ICU would tell you the same thing.
No, they would tell me they stuffed up and missed something, it was their fault. If they don't tell me that, then they are not thinking like I do.
Let's say you're right. That in no way changes the practical outcome of death or life-altering injuries.
To me, a 26x greater risk of death per mile traveled makes a mode of transportation unviable, but then I recognized sometime in my early twenties that I'm neither omniscient, immortal nor infallible.
I'm sure there is a 26 times higher death rate driving to work than staying at home on the couch. Or almost any leisure activity is 4000% as risky as staying in bed all day...
It's fine if you draw your risk line somewhere around mini golf, but just because people like to do things that are more interesting/risky than that in an intelligent way, doesn't make them immoral or stupid.
Sure some bikers are dumb, and pay a big price, but that's true with many things.
Just be careful you don't end up old and uninjured, but wishing you could've done more things when you were young.
Originally Posted By: Silk
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Both of the guys I know, the one who died and the one who remains in ICU would tell you the same thing.
No, they would tell me they stuffed up and missed something, it was their fault. If they don't tell me that, then they are not thinking like I do.
Let's say you're right. That in no way changes the practical outcome of death or life-altering injuries.
To me, a 26x greater risk of death per mile traveled makes a mode of transportation unviable, but then I recognized sometime in my early twenties that I'm neither omniscient, immortal nor infallible.
I'm sure there is a 26 times higher death rate driving to work than staying at home on the couch. Or almost any leisure activity is 4000% as risky as staying in bed all day...
It's fine if you draw your risk line somewhere around mini golf, but just because people like to do things that are more interesting/risky than that in an intelligent way, doesn't make them immoral or stupid.
Sure some bikers are dumb, and pay a big price, but that's true with many things.
Just be careful you don't end up old and uninjured, but wishing you could've done more things when you were young.
A bike is a mode of transportation. It's a lot of fun to ride one, as I know from personal experience.
I don't own modes of transportation for recreational use. I own them to use for commuting, shopping and the like.
If I can't use a bike as transportation without accepting what I regard as an excessive amount of marginal risk then there's no point in my having one.
What I really dislike about the risks inherent in riding a bike is that there are so many that you can't manage.
There are many other potentially risky activities that one can enjoy in which the level of risk is under one's own control. Sailing, flying light singles, kayaking and scuba are examples of activities where one can control the risks by his selection of equipment, venue and weather conditions.
On a bike, you're relying upon all of the other drivers around you not to do anything stupid enough to put you in harms way with no exit.
Maybe I'm a control freak, but I don't like the idea of exposing myself to serious risks that I can't control.
My everyday exposure to traffic and observation of it makes me very reluctant to rely upon the skills, judgment and attention levels of other road users.
I don't own modes of transportation for recreational use. I own them to use for commuting, shopping and the like.
If I can't use a bike as transportation without accepting what I regard as an excessive amount of marginal risk then there's no point in my having one.
What I really dislike about the risks inherent in riding a bike is that there are so many that you can't manage.
There are many other potentially risky activities that one can enjoy in which the level of risk is under one's own control. Sailing, flying light singles, kayaking and scuba are examples of activities where one can control the risks by his selection of equipment, venue and weather conditions.
On a bike, you're relying upon all of the other drivers around you not to do anything stupid enough to put you in harms way with no exit.
Maybe I'm a control freak, but I don't like the idea of exposing myself to serious risks that I can't control.
My everyday exposure to traffic and observation of it makes me very reluctant to rely upon the skills, judgment and attention levels of other road users.
fdcg27 said in part: "My everyday exposure to traffic and observation of it makes me very reluctant to rely upon the skills, judgment and attention levels of other road users."
Who wouldn't agree? Trouble is trouble comes your way when you drive anything.....just more so on a motorcycle. Kira
Who wouldn't agree? Trouble is trouble comes your way when you drive anything.....just more so on a motorcycle. Kira
Originally Posted By: Kira
fdcg27 said in part: "My everyday exposure to traffic and observation of it makes me very reluctant to rely upon the skills, judgment and attention levels of other road users."
Who wouldn't agree? Trouble is trouble comes your way when you drive anything.....just more so on a motorcycle. Kira
Yeah, and an accident that you'd open the driver's door and walk away from in a car might very well be your last experience in this life on a bike.
There is a reason that EMS and ER people call them donorcycles in the vein of dark humor.
fdcg27 said in part: "My everyday exposure to traffic and observation of it makes me very reluctant to rely upon the skills, judgment and attention levels of other road users."
Who wouldn't agree? Trouble is trouble comes your way when you drive anything.....just more so on a motorcycle. Kira
Yeah, and an accident that you'd open the driver's door and walk away from in a car might very well be your last experience in this life on a bike.
There is a reason that EMS and ER people call them donorcycles in the vein of dark humor.
I have no interest in motorcycles but this whole deal is a slippery slope. Dogooders start enacting laws. Then they come for my old cars without airbags. Before you know it Google will have control of all our cars. There are millennial numbskulls here who think that's a great idea.
A couple hundred more years pass and human existence is merely to breed and work. No extracurricular activities allowed.
A couple hundred more years pass and human existence is merely to breed and work. No extracurricular activities allowed.
Today is the 4th of July. I'm out enjoying the Freedom I have, to do whatever I want. Right now my Motorcycle is parked in a pullout on a Mountain road, and I'm enjoying the spectacular view, while waiting for friends to arrive on their bikes.
So I log in to Bitog for a minute, and low and behold there's still somebody that thinks they have the right to tell me and others, what activities are acceptable. On THE day when we celebrate our nations Freedom. The irony is inescapable.
So I log in to Bitog for a minute, and low and behold there's still somebody that thinks they have the right to tell me and others, what activities are acceptable. On THE day when we celebrate our nations Freedom. The irony is inescapable.
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There is no irony to escape.
I have never in this thread written that anyone should be prohibited from riding a bike if they wish to do so.
I did write that the right to choose is the essence of personal freedom.
There is only you making a decision to engage in an activity I'd avoid. This is your right and I've never claimed otherwise. Foolish maybe, but we all have the right to make foolish decisions.
You can and should do as you please, but you should also read a little more carefully before posting any reply.
I do kind of doubt that bike riding is what those who fought the British had in mind, though.
Anyone who wants the last word is welcomed to it. I'll not post again in this thread.
I have never in this thread written that anyone should be prohibited from riding a bike if they wish to do so.
I did write that the right to choose is the essence of personal freedom.
There is only you making a decision to engage in an activity I'd avoid. This is your right and I've never claimed otherwise. Foolish maybe, but we all have the right to make foolish decisions.
You can and should do as you please, but you should also read a little more carefully before posting any reply.
I do kind of doubt that bike riding is what those who fought the British had in mind, though.
Anyone who wants the last word is welcomed to it. I'll not post again in this thread.
Last motorcycle I was on is
a Ninja 1000 back in 1990.
Bikes are fun but very unsafe with all the idiots in vehicles texting.
a Ninja 1000 back in 1990.
Bikes are fun but very unsafe with all the idiots in vehicles texting.
Originally Posted By: crinkles
My doctor was an avid biker. He had an accident riding his bike and can no longer work.
I live in the country, narrow roads, poor sight distances, big trucks. I don't understand how a bicyclist would want to risk their life doing it. Kids or not.
I like to bike for stress and exercise. I stick to "safe" roads though. I suspect that if I lived closer to a city I'd bike less, as the roads would be "less" safe; ironically I'd probably feel more safe as density goes up. Some of the larger cities put in bike lanes and have enough bikes on the roads that drivers are more aware; but more importantly, inside the city speed differences between vehicles start to become less.
Besides, bicycles are one of the coolest inventions ever. Get going down a nice flat road with a tailwind, and it's as if the gods were smiling down on you. [Then again, pedal up a slight incline with a headwind, and you'll wonder if peeved off the gods.]
My doctor was an avid biker. He had an accident riding his bike and can no longer work.
I live in the country, narrow roads, poor sight distances, big trucks. I don't understand how a bicyclist would want to risk their life doing it. Kids or not.
I like to bike for stress and exercise. I stick to "safe" roads though. I suspect that if I lived closer to a city I'd bike less, as the roads would be "less" safe; ironically I'd probably feel more safe as density goes up. Some of the larger cities put in bike lanes and have enough bikes on the roads that drivers are more aware; but more importantly, inside the city speed differences between vehicles start to become less.
Besides, bicycles are one of the coolest inventions ever. Get going down a nice flat road with a tailwind, and it's as if the gods were smiling down on you. [Then again, pedal up a slight incline with a headwind, and you'll wonder if peeved off the gods.]
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I have no interest in motorcycles but this whole deal is a slippery slope. Dogooders start enacting laws. Then they come for my old cars without airbags. Before you know it Google will have control of all our cars. There are millennial numbskulls here who think that's a great idea.
A couple hundred more years pass and human existence is merely to breed and work. No extracurricular activities allowed.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
-C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
I have no interest in motorcycles but this whole deal is a slippery slope. Dogooders start enacting laws. Then they come for my old cars without airbags. Before you know it Google will have control of all our cars. There are millennial numbskulls here who think that's a great idea.
A couple hundred more years pass and human existence is merely to breed and work. No extracurricular activities allowed.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
-C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology)
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Ever since my mc vs. deer accident in December (end of mating season, they are on the move a lot) that totaled out my prior Duc, I am still gun shy when riding through wooded areas, the kind where you have no line of sight on the easements to either side of the road to see if anything is there, nothing but a treeline up close to the road and they can dart out before you ever catch a glimpse of them. My wreck in dec wasn't even that though. I'd just come out of a s-curve that was tree lined as described and was just starting to accelerate in a clearing area of homes with deep front yards and bam-- five of them appear on the road climbed up from a dished down yard. Lucky for me it was the runt of the herd that I hit. Can't emphasize enough how fast it happened. I still ride though, and now have a new bike which I hope stays intact.
That's two accidents in as many years for me. 2014 on the prior bike I dumped it off-road and did a grade 2 separation to the acrio-clavicular (AC) joint in my right shoulder, out in the boonies away from any nearby civilization (national forest, public land area). Was able to get home, but it was a painful ride. Drove self in car to ER once home. Gift from that one is some nerve damage that causes periodic mild tingling and a pins/needles sensation intermittently down inner area of right forearm and wrist as well as a tendency for my throttle hand to get numb from time to time, and periodic shoulder pain.
That's two accidents in as many years for me. 2014 on the prior bike I dumped it off-road and did a grade 2 separation to the acrio-clavicular (AC) joint in my right shoulder, out in the boonies away from any nearby civilization (national forest, public land area). Was able to get home, but it was a painful ride. Drove self in car to ER once home. Gift from that one is some nerve damage that causes periodic mild tingling and a pins/needles sensation intermittently down inner area of right forearm and wrist as well as a tendency for my throttle hand to get numb from time to time, and periodic shoulder pain.
Well let's see - I been riding motorcycles (and bicycles) in traffic for 55+ years now. I have laid the bikes down a time or two, but that was me going to fast in the dirt. On the street I'm pretty cautious...
There are lots of Harley riders with 100,000 mile pins (accident free miles). There are a bunch with 200,000 and 500,000 mile pins, and a goodly number with 1,000,000 mile pins. Same for Gold Wing riders, and others... So it can be done.
You can have a fatality in a mini-van. It's up to you. Have I ever had a completely unavoidable accident that came out of nowhere - yes. It did not happen on a bike. Could it have - maybe... I ride differently than I drive, always have.
And just so you think my driving is iffy - I've held a Class A with tank endorsement (petroleum hauler, back in the day) for over 40 years. Have not been in the cab for about 4 years now (even part time), but I guess I've been down that road some...
Met my wife on a bike - she on hers, me on mine. Neither of us have ever had a serious situation on a bike on the road. Taught all the kids to ride and made sure they knew how. Will for the grand kids too... It just depends on how you ride...
There are lots of Harley riders with 100,000 mile pins (accident free miles). There are a bunch with 200,000 and 500,000 mile pins, and a goodly number with 1,000,000 mile pins. Same for Gold Wing riders, and others... So it can be done.
You can have a fatality in a mini-van. It's up to you. Have I ever had a completely unavoidable accident that came out of nowhere - yes. It did not happen on a bike. Could it have - maybe... I ride differently than I drive, always have.
And just so you think my driving is iffy - I've held a Class A with tank endorsement (petroleum hauler, back in the day) for over 40 years. Have not been in the cab for about 4 years now (even part time), but I guess I've been down that road some...
Met my wife on a bike - she on hers, me on mine. Neither of us have ever had a serious situation on a bike on the road. Taught all the kids to ride and made sure they knew how. Will for the grand kids too... It just depends on how you ride...
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