Usefullnes of Max Performance Summer Tire ?

[HTSS_TR]

In a warmer months a summer tire is useful for both wet and dry surface, especially on country/mountain winding roads when there is no slow traffic that keep you 10-15 MPG below speed limit.

The problem is more than 98-99% of the time there is no traffic that you can use more than 50-60% of the capacity of the Max Performance Summer Tire.

Let take a look of two set of tires: Michelin Pilot Super Sport(Max Performance Summer) and Kumho 4X (Ultra High Performance All Season).

My S2000 has Kumho 4X and I have no problem get it to 100+ MPH on empty highway, the car is very stable without any hind of loosing control, as long as I have correct pressure on front and rear tires.

On winding mountain road I could easily do 65-70 MPG on 55 MPH stretch and 55-60 MPH on 35-40 MPH section, when there is no vehicle on front. The problem is most of the times I was behind some other vehicles, and they were usually go 5-15 MPH below speed limit, sometimes 20-25 MPH below.

With second tier all-season tires(Kumho 4X) I already use less than 20-30% its potential more than 95-98% of the times I drove on mountain road. What good is it if I have max performance summer tire such as Michelin Pilot Super Sport ? If I track my S2000 then it is useful on the track, but for driving on public roads it is more or less a waste because I can't use it more than 1% of my driving conditions.

The most wasteful was when a Porsche Panamera S with Michelin Pilot Super Sport accelerates from 0 to 50 MPH in more than 40-45 seconds, way slower than Prius which slowly accelerate as normal in less than 25-30 seconds.

 

[raytseng]

well you can take that logic and apply it to the rest of the car too, not just the tires.

Why do people pay for cars and engines and so on to go faster than legal speed limit, when they can get by with a "regular" car that goes 90% of the time.

It's not a logic decision, people like to like things and spend money on them despite logic

 

[Olas]

Think of it this way:

Even if you only use 5% of the tyres ability on a daily basis, it's nice to know you have a lot in reserve when a little kid runs out in front of you and you need to avoid killing him.

Braking and turning performance is dependant on good tyres, and your safety is worth more than all the tyres in the world.

 

[SteveSRT8]

If you have ever used the new gen Michelin PSS's you know they also RIDE better than almost any other performance tire including all seasons.

In my car, with steamroller 275/35/20 sizing, they are quieter also.

Less tread noise, remarkable traction, long long life (30k miles guaranteed). My car has never gone more than 20k miles on any brand I've run...

 

[d00df00d]

AS Olas said, you just have no idea what's going to happen no matter how fast you're going.

Therefore:

1. You can never have a short enough stopping distance.
2. You can never have enough wet grip.

Whatever tire gets you the best stopping distance and wet grip is the best choice, regardless of how fast you drive.

The Michelin Pilot Super Sport is on another level though, as SteveSRT8 started to say. Class-leading dry and wet grip, AND excellent behavior and response, AND amazing ride quality, AND decent rolling resistance, AND probably the longest usable tread life of anything remotely comparable (because it keeps performing until bald, unlike other tires that are no good below half tread depth). There are a few tires that narrowly beat it in one or two categories, but they always lose horribly in others. There's essentially no reason to buy anything else.

...Actually I've come up with five reasons, but I'm pretty sure none of them applies to this discussion.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: raytseng
well you can take that logic and apply it to the rest of the car too, not just the tires.

Why do people pay for cars and engines and so on to go faster than legal speed limit, when they can get by with a "regular" car that goes 90% of the time.

It's not a logic decision, people like to like things and spend money on them despite logic

What's the "legal" speed limit? Texas has 80 mph on some roads. Should I NOT be able to buy a European car which can go faster than that on the Autobahn? Why not keep your nose out of MY business.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
AS Olas said, you just have no idea what's going to happen no matter how fast you're going.

Therefore:

1. You can never have a short enough stopping distance.
2. You can never have enough wet grip.

Whatever tire gets you the best stopping distance and wet grip is the best choice, regardless of how fast you drive.

The Michelin Pilot Super Sport is on another level though, as SteveSRT8 started to say. Class-leading dry and wet grip, AND excellent behavior and response, AND amazing ride quality, AND decent rolling resistance, AND probably the longest usable tread life of anything remotely comparable (because it keeps performing until bald, unlike other tires that are no good below half tread depth). There are a few tires that narrowly beat it in one or two categories, but they always lose horribly in others. There's essentially no reason to buy anything else.

...Actually I've come up with five reasons, but I'm pretty sure none of them applies to this discussion.

Bravo

You've summed it up quite nicely.

The OP may not have the problem I had, but with a "lesser" tire it was very easy to break traction just doing a spirited pass. I had to "roll into it" in order to not break free and even then if I let the tach sweep north of 5K it was a possibility that she'd light them up and engage the DSC.

The PSS's stick like epoxy, and they do it when it is WET OUT, that's what blows my mind the most. They have the best wet traction I've ever experienced.

They also seem to be wearing incredibly well, which surprised me.

 

[spackard]

Wet traction is a useless attribute for southern California.
If you do what everyone does here, which is drive 10 slower in the rain, then you're good with any summer tire. Commuting in the rain only happens about 5 driving days a year, at best. Most of the rain falls after you get home and before you leave for work.

 

[d00df00d]

In that case, all the emphasis would be on stopping distances in the dry.

As far as tire choice, that'd mean you'd compare the Michelin Pilot Super Sport against more dry-focused performance tires (e.g. Bridgestone Potenza RE-11A) and streetable track tires (e.g. Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2).

 

[supton]

I'm going to be contrary here, if I may.

One year I decided to run a dedicated summer tire, as I was running dedicated winters. Great idea I thought. Problem was, I wanted to get the winters on before it snowed, so mid-Nov I think. Then because I could not take off the winters until I was sure winter was over, I ran well into April. About five months I reckon on winters. Being true winter they were loud; being true summer tires they had no snow grip.

I suppose I could have tried three sets of tires, a "moderate" tire being an all season like an rt43, But that seems to border on ridiculous. I could just run the snows for six months, that is true; a wiser selection of tire might have yielded a more quiet tire.

I guess my summary is that climate has a big impact on this. I do not see the hot pavement you southern guys get, so real summer tires do nit serve my needs.

 

[Scum_Frog]

If we all just did what was logical then we might as well all just be communists and all drive a Prius. No Thanks!!!!!! I like being able to buy what I want with the hard earned money I make, no matter how illogical young think it is. My choice to earn, save or spend as I see fit.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: supton
I'm going to be contrary here, if I may.

One year I decided to run a dedicated summer tire, as I was running dedicated winters. Great idea I thought. Problem was, I wanted to get the winters on before it snowed, so mid-Nov I think. Then because I could not take off the winters until I was sure winter was over, I ran well into April. About five months I reckon on winters. Being true winter they were loud; being true summer tires they had no snow grip.

I suppose I could have tried three sets of tires, a "moderate" tire being an all season like an rt43, But that seems to border on ridiculous. I could just run the snows for six months, that is true; a wiser selection of tire might have yielded a more quiet tire.

I guess my summary is that climate has a big impact on this. I do not see the hot pavement you southern guys get, so real summer tires do nit serve my needs.


I ran the PSS's last year until the snow started to fly, which was when I put the car away. I brought the car out in March. Now, it doesn't get Texas-hot in Ontario most of the summer, but there is a VERY significant difference in performance in my application between a mediocre summer tire and a top-shelf offering like the PSS.

It of course depends on what you drive too of course.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

The PSS's stick like epoxy, and they do it when it is WET OUT, that's what blows my mind the most. They have the best wet traction I've ever experienced.

They also seem to be wearing incredibly well, which surprised me.


Aren't they amazing? I can easily believe the performance, but LONGEVITY was never a word used with Pilots in the old daze...

 

[splinter]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
..If I track my S2000 then it is useful on the track, but for driving on public roads it is more or less a waste because I can't use it more than 1% of my driving conditions..


A well-engineered and delightfully dynamic chassis such as your S2000 deserves the ‘best’ tires which can be fitted imho.
An enthusiast can never have too much adhesion and directional stability even if he’s exploiting that circle of traction 1% of his distance traveled.

I can legitimately rationalize good tires with the accounting department (Mrs. splinter) as a worthwhile contributor to our motoring safety, too.
PSS on her AMG and RE-11A on the Miata without any regrets. Buy the best and cry once.

Join us for an EL Toro MCAS autocross sometime and you’ll really enjoy the benefits of sticky rubber.

 

[HTSS_TR]

In a rare downpour 5-6 months ago when the Kumho 4X on the rear had less than 4/32" tread left I was able to drive up to 80-85 MPH without any hind of loosing control, the braking distance is fairly short even on wet road.

The car is very stable on any road condition with second tier all-season tire at sane speed. My frustration was when I went to Lake Elsinore on mountain road CA-74, this 25 miles drive is beautiful with a lot hard turns, my S2000 with not so good tire can easily do 65-70 MPH on 55 MPH section and 45-50 MPH on 30-35 MPH stretch if no other vehicle on front. But I never had a chance to do it because it was always some slow vehicles for almost the whole drive. Most of the times they were as slow as 40 MPH on 55 MPH stretch and 25 MPH on 35 MPH section. At that time I thought that with all 4 compact spares on the S2000 it can do better than 35 MPH.

In So Cal we can use summer tire all year, we rarely have any temperature below 55F during the day, it may drop to mid 40's late at night after 1-2 AM. But traffic on all highways are busy everyday includes weekend from 5-6 AM to midnight. Best summer tire can be utilized at no more than 1-2% of daily driving on any road.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: supton
I suppose I could have tried three sets of tires, a "moderate" tire being an all season like an rt43, But that seems to border on ridiculous. I could just run the snows for six months, that is true; a wiser selection of tire might have yielded a more quiet tire.


At one point I was doing just that, except for upping the performance level all around; Summer; semi-R compound Toyo RA-1 road race tires,
late fall-spring; BFG Super Sport all seasons,
winter; Nokian Hakkas.

It DID get to be a little much though, with all of the changing back and forth, but it DID help all three sets last longer, especially the gumball soft Toyos.

 

[edyvw]

Comparing Kumho 4X with Michelin PSS? OMG!!!
In that parallel universe that is possible, IF Kumho's can last more then 10K without developing flat spot, going out of balance etc.

 

[y_p_w]

Everyone has different priorities. I see a lot of high end megabuck cars riding on Nexen or some cheaper no-name tires. Cost is going to be an issue.

I suppose part of the reason why PSS isn't always the choice is that they're expensive. Also - some drivers may have to deal with cool spring or fall temperatures where summer tires will be too hard.

Michelin does have the Pilot Sport A/S 3, which does strike a balance.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Everyone has different priorities. I see a lot of high end megabuck cars riding on Nexen or some cheaper no-name tires. Cost is going to be an issue.

I suppose part of the reason why PSS isn't always the choice is that they're expensive. Also - some drivers may have to deal with cool spring or fall temperatures where summer tires will be too hard.

Michelin does have the Pilot Sport A/S 3, which does strike a balance.


I remarked on their performance in the spring and late fall earlier in the thread, they are actually quite good.

They are also not that expensive; significantly cheaper for my application than the PS2's the car came with OE.

 

[hattaresguy]

It always kills me seeing a very nice car with junk tires. Its like putting on a $5k suite with Walmart shoes.