Blizzard Car/Tire Choice: '14 Subaru '08 Civic?

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Do not forget guys that you also have to stop, and best AS tire cannot come close to worst winter tire in the snow/ice conditions.
I am seriously wondering why people think going forward is biggest problem, but not stopping once you move forward?


Sorry, I have to disagree with this based on my experience with the LTX M/S 2, which stops better than the dedicated snows I have on the Charger. The LTX's are exceptional on ice, don't ask me why, I'm not Michelin, but it has me re-evaluating my winter tire choice on the Charger. I may go with some X-Ice 3's next year. My sister has them on her 330i and they are absolutely incredible on ice.

I am certain that these are the exception rather than the rule, but they blew my mind last winter in that ice storm we had

IDK, I drive all my life on winter tires and performance tires. In Europe the law in the winter recognizes only dedicated winter tire, so AS tires are hard to even buy.
I had some very bad winter tires (Hankook) but still much better then some best AS I had in the U.S. on the snow (I have on Tiguan Conti DWS for summer and time of the year when it could snow, and they are OK, but nothing like winter tire).
Maybe LTX is just designed more toward colder and snowy weather.
What I heard from my buddies that I ski with (and we ski twice a week on very, very high altitude) is that they are remarkable in ice, packed snow. They are OK in deep fresh snow, but problem is on slush. Not enough spacing between tread block to evacuate slush.
I use Blizzaks for both cars in the winter, no issues at all, except that CC overwhelms LM-60 with brakes very fast.
New Continental winter tire for next season looks promising.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: CrawfishTails
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Do not forget guys that you also have to stop, and best AS tire cannot come close to worst winter tire in the snow/ice conditions.
I am seriously wondering why people think going forward is biggest problem, but not stopping once you move forward?


People are afraid of getting stuck going uphill or too slow from a stoplight.

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Sorry, I have to disagree with this based on my experience with the LTX M/S 2, which stops better than the dedicated snows I have on the Charger. The LTX's are exceptional on ice, don't ask me why, I'm not Michelin, but it has me re-evaluating my winter tire choice on the Charger. I may go with some X-Ice 3's next year. My sister has them on her 330i and they are absolutely incredible on ice.

I am certain that these are the exception rather than the rule, but they blew my mind last winter in that ice storm we had

I've had experience with Micheline Xice3, and they are a breakthrough. They are extremely high speed rated, long wearing, and an ice tire. You could classify them as an all-season really.

Correct! They think hat is an issue. I tell them: well, someone will push you etc. I think it is embarrassment. When you ask them about braking, than they start to think more about what would happen.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Do not forget guys that you also have to stop, and best AS tire cannot come close to worst winter tire in the snow/ice conditions.
I am seriously wondering why people think going forward is biggest problem, but not stopping once you move forward?


Sorry, I have to disagree with this based on my experience with the LTX M/S 2, which stops better than the dedicated snows I have on the Charger. The LTX's are exceptional on ice, don't ask me why, I'm not Michelin, but it has me re-evaluating my winter tire choice on the Charger. I may go with some X-Ice 3's next year. My sister has them on her 330i and they are absolutely incredible on ice.

I am certain that these are the exception rather than the rule, but they blew my mind last winter in that ice storm we had

IDK, I drive all my life on winter tires and performance tires. In Europe the law in the winter recognizes only dedicated winter tire, so AS tires are hard to even buy.
I had some very bad winter tires (Hankook) but still much better then some best AS I had in the U.S. on the snow (I have on Tiguan Conti DWS for summer and time of the year when it could snow, and they are OK, but nothing like winter tire).
Maybe LTX is just designed more toward colder and snowy weather.
What I heard from my buddies that I ski with (and we ski twice a week on very, very high altitude) is that they are remarkable in ice, packed snow. They are OK in deep fresh snow, but problem is on slush. Not enough spacing between tread block to evacuate slush.
I use Blizzaks for both cars in the winter, no issues at all, except that CC overwhelms LM-60 with brakes very fast.
New Continental winter tire for next season looks promising.


Yeah, as I said, I think that the LTX M/S 2's are the exception, rather than the rule. I'm on some Hankook IPike's on the Charger and the Michelins are by far a better tire on ice. The Hankook's may be better in slush though. But the Expedition weighs 2,000lbs more and has 4x4, so that sort of negates that benefit.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Sorry, I have to disagree with this based on my experience with the LTX M/S 2, which stops better than the dedicated snows I have on the Charger.

Unless you put both tires on the same vehicle, I don't see how you can fairly compare them.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Sorry, I have to disagree with this based on my experience with the LTX M/S 2, which stops better than the dedicated snows I have on the Charger.

Unless you put both tires on the same vehicle, I don't see how you can fairly compare them.


Having driven vehicles the same weight as the Expedition, but on a different tire, that's my reference point. We have some vans that are roughly the same weight at work, but on dedicated snows and while they might be a bit better in deep snow, the LTX's are noticeably better on ice.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Do not forget guys that you also have to stop, and best AS tire cannot come close to worst winter tire in the snow/ice conditions.
I am seriously wondering why people think going forward is biggest problem, but not stopping once you move forward?


Sorry, I have to disagree with this based on my experience with the LTX M/S 2, which stops better than the dedicated snows I have on the Charger. The LTX's are exceptional on ice, don't ask me why, I'm not Michelin, but it has me re-evaluating my winter tire choice on the Charger. I may go with some X-Ice 3's next year. My sister has them on her 330i and they are absolutely incredible on ice.

I am certain that these are the exception rather than the rule, but they blew my mind last winter in that ice storm we had

IDK, I drive all my life on winter tires and performance tires. In Europe the law in the winter recognizes only dedicated winter tire, so AS tires are hard to even buy.
I had some very bad winter tires (Hankook) but still much better then some best AS I had in the U.S. on the snow (I have on Tiguan Conti DWS for summer and time of the year when it could snow, and they are OK, but nothing like winter tire).
Maybe LTX is just designed more toward colder and snowy weather.
What I heard from my buddies that I ski with (and we ski twice a week on very, very high altitude) is that they are remarkable in ice, packed snow. They are OK in deep fresh snow, but problem is on slush. Not enough spacing between tread block to evacuate slush.
I use Blizzaks for both cars in the winter, no issues at all, except that CC overwhelms LM-60 with brakes very fast.
New Continental winter tire for next season looks promising.


Yeah, as I said, I think that the LTX M/S 2's are the exception, rather than the rule. I'm on some Hankook IPike's on the Charger and the Michelins are by far a better tire on ice. The Hankook's may be better in slush though. But the Expedition weighs 2,000lbs more and has 4x4, so that sort of negates that benefit.

I had same issue with Hankook 10yrs ago. Bad on ice, packed snow. I think they are still trying to resolve that based on reviews.

 

[OVERKILL]

I had Blizzak's on the M5 (which weighs about the same as the Charger) and they were better on ice too. I give the edge to the Hankook's in snow though. Didn't help that the tires on the M5 were 275's though.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I had Blizzak's on the M5 (which weighs about the same as the Charger) and they were better on ice too. I give the edge to the Hankook's in snow though. Didn't help that the tires on the M5 were 275's though.

Yeah, On CC I have 235's, but it is FWD.
On Tiguan, I downsized for winter from 235/50 R18 to 215/55 R16.
Blizzaks are good on Tiguan (Ws70), but CC is too much for LM-60. I like to push car to the maximum on mountain roads, and I hit their maximum very fast. Hopefully new Conti will come in H or V speed rating. In Europe Continental is on the top for long time, since GY dropped the ball some 10yrs ago. But we do not get those Continentals.
For performance cars I still think Dunlop Wintersport is way to go.

 

[OVERKILL]

I find that whenever I deviate from Michelin I always end up regretting it

Figure I'd have learned by now. The PSS's are by far the best summer rubber I've ever used, the LTX M/S2's are just incredible as an all-around tire on the Expedition for our usage profile and wear like iron. The Pilot A/S's I have on the Charger's summer rims are also excellent, though I think I should have gone PSS there too, given the fact that I run dedicates snows on it. Next time around I guess.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I find that whenever I deviate from Michelin I always end up regretting it

Figure I'd have learned by now. The PSS's are by far the best summer rubber I've ever used, the LTX M/S2's are just incredible as an all-around tire on the Expedition for our usage profile and wear like iron. The Pilot A/S's I have on the Charger's summer rims are also excellent, though I think I should have gone PSS there too, given the fact that I run dedicates snows on it. Next time around I guess.


I have PSS for summer. Not giving up on that!

 

[Rand]

LM-60 is a performance winter tire so its not surprising you hit its limits at a lower speed than a max ice traction winter tire in the ws-70.

FWIW the ws-80 are H rated and even better than the ws-70 in every way except possibly deep snow.. Note: I never had any problems in deep snow with either.

I pulled a trailer with a 700# tractor through my uphill yard in about 6" of frozen slush snow, with 4" of fresh powder on top.. no issues.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Rand
LM-60 is a performance winter tire so its not surprising you hit its limits at a lower speed than a max ice traction winter tire in the ws-70.

FWIW the ws-80 are H rated and even better than the ws-70 in every way except possibly deep snow.. Note: I never had any problems in deep snow with either.

I pulled a trailer with a 700# tractor through my uphill yard in about 6" of frozen slush snow, with 4" of fresh powder on top.. no issues.

Maybe I was not clear. I hit limits on VW CC with LM-60, on Tiguan I have WS-70, no issues what so ever. I do not think it is performance tire on par with Dunlop Wintersport. It is just too soft, which is compromise for good traction. Only thing is Dunlop solved those issues better. On low speeds LM-60 is OK, problems start when I hit higher speeds and I am accelerating hard between two curves, and that involves hard braking too between those curves. I am not implying they are bad. They are I think just not appropriate for what I want from tire. I will see to try Dunlop 4D, or maybe even X-Ice, although I am kind of skeptical based on reviews about slush performance on X-Ice.
Also, BIG ISSUE: This is second season on Blizzaks, and after I reinstall them in November, they became soooooo loud, that my mechanic thought my wheel bearings went bad. I think it is due to aggressive driving style.

 

[jmb3675]

Don't get me wrong, the LTX M/S 2s are the best tires I have ever owned. They are really good in all seasons including snow. My focus with th dedicated snow tires is just better when the roads are slick, but more importantly it stops quicker. I am really impressed with the X-Ice 3s. they completely transformed the cars winter traction. When the temps get over 40 though, they feel pretty soft,

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: jmb3675
Don't get me wrong, the LTX M/S 2s are the best tires I have ever owned. They are really good in all seasons including snow. My focus with th dedicated snow tires is just better when the roads are slick, but more importantly it stops quicker. I am really impressed with the X-Ice 3s. they completely transformed the cars winter traction. When the temps get over 40 though, they feel pretty soft,


I have no problem imagining the X-Ice 3's being better than the LTX's on slick roads. My sister has them on her 330i and they are absolutely incredible on ice. My comparison was to the tires I have on the Charger, which are the iPike's, which don't seem to be as good on ice as the LTX's. But they are better (comparatively acknowledging that they are on two difference vehicles) in slush and certain types of snow.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

Maybe I was not clear. I hit limits on VW CC with LM-60, on Tiguan I have WS-70, no issues what so ever. I do not think it is performance tire on par with Dunlop Wintersport. It is just too soft, which is compromise for good traction. Only thing is Dunlop solved those issues better. On low speeds LM-60 is OK, problems start when I hit higher speeds and I am accelerating hard between two curves, and that involves hard braking too between those curves. I am not implying they are bad. They are I think just not appropriate for what I want from tire. I will see to try Dunlop 4D, or maybe even X-Ice, although I am kind of skeptical based on reviews about slush performance on X-Ice.
Also, BIG ISSUE: This is second season on Blizzaks, and after I reinstall them in November, they became soooooo loud, that my mechanic thought my wheel bearings went bad. I think it is due to aggressive driving style.


Right and the LM-60 are basically ws-60's without the multicell compound IIRC.

I think you would be much better served with some dunlop 4d, michelin pilot alpin PA4 type tires.

That being said I never had loudness issues with my ws-70 in 4 winters.. of course they only had 10000miles on them.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: edyvw

Maybe I was not clear. I hit limits on VW CC with LM-60, on Tiguan I have WS-70, no issues what so ever. I do not think it is performance tire on par with Dunlop Wintersport. It is just too soft, which is compromise for good traction. Only thing is Dunlop solved those issues better. On low speeds LM-60 is OK, problems start when I hit higher speeds and I am accelerating hard between two curves, and that involves hard braking too between those curves. I am not implying they are bad. They are I think just not appropriate for what I want from tire. I will see to try Dunlop 4D, or maybe even X-Ice, although I am kind of skeptical based on reviews about slush performance on X-Ice.
Also, BIG ISSUE: This is second season on Blizzaks, and after I reinstall them in November, they became soooooo loud, that my mechanic thought my wheel bearings went bad. I think it is due to aggressive driving style.


Right and the LM-60 are basically ws-60's without the multicell compound IIRC.

I think you would be much better served with some dunlop 4d, michelin pilot alpin PA4 type tires.

That being said I never had loudness issues with my ws-70 in 4 winters.. of course they only had 10000miles on them.

Yeah, 4D or PA4, although PA4 is hard to find and they are expensive. Well, this is last season on LM-60, since they are wearing off like crazy.
I do not have any issue with WS-70. They are more aggressive, softer, so they come handy on AWD Tiguan when really messy blizzard hits. Although I went through worst weather with LM-60 and CC, and never had to stop. When it comes to snow etc, Blizzaks are truly impressive.