Reasons NOT to go with an Over-sized filter?

[SHOZ]

On my Gen Coupe I have two oil temp senders. One is the OEM up in the head by the cam actuators. The other is just after the filter before the oil goes to the bearings.

There is noticeable surface related cooling as the weather gets cold as the oil going coming out of the sump is at least 15F cooler than the oil at the head. This can only be because of the surface cooling from the oil pan and other parts before the bearings. This is also after the oil goes through a coolant/oil heat exchanger the filter mounts too so that is adding heat at that point.

So I would say the filter can area does help cool. It may not be all that noticeable. If I drove this car more in the winter I would probably put some sort of insulation in the front and sides of the oil pan to help keep the oil temp up.

 

[Izb]

Reasons to go with an Over-sized filter.

For example, you choose non-original synthetic filter (FRAM, Amsoil, Redline, M1, ... with bypass 11-17PSI) for Subaru FA/FB engine instead of stock 15208aa160 (bypass 23PSI) and oversized 15208aa130 (bypass 23PSI)

You can also use oil filters AMSOIL: smallest Amsoil EA15k12, bigger EA15K13 and biggest EA15K20 (oversized).

Then the temperatures of opening of bypass valve after the cold start on oil 0W-20, are (for example, I don't know exact temperatures):
Subaru 15208aa160 and 15208aa170: -12
Subaru 15208aa130: -15
Amsoil EA15K12: - 12
Amsoil EA15K13: -15
Amsoil Ea15K20: -17

What is most useful for engine? I am sure that Ea15K20.

 

[Duffyjr]

When I bought my truck I noticed right away that the filter looked the same as the one for my car except longer and when I looked them up they spec the same. 51036 truck, 51040 car, I always just figure it was longer because it had to move more oil.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Those saying that going with an oversized filter has no benefits are wrong.

Running an LF9028 on my Jeep gives me a built-in 5 micron bypass filter, where the factory-sized filters have none.

If I run a DBL7349, then I get 100% efficiency @ 20 microns. I cannot get that in a factory spec filter.

I'm not worried about filter warranties for 2 reasons:

1. Proving a filter killed an engine will cost more money than an engine. I've hired metallurgical forensic laboratories before to successfully fight warranty denials.

2. After purchasing thousands of filters, I have never had an engine S the bed for anything other than very obvious reasons, unrelated to the filter.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Those saying that going with an oversized filter has no benefits are wrong.


You are one of the few here (I can't recall any actually) who backed the running an over-sized filter claim by using a filter with a unique 5 micron bypass. You are definitely the black sheep in this situation IMO. Generally, the folks here who are running an over-sized filter run the same thing as what is spec'd by the manufacturer with just a larger can.

Do you have any cut 'n posts on that Fleetguard filter?

 

[DoubleWasp]

I have a few lying around. I've just been lazy about doing the cuts, and had distractions in the mean time.

I'll try to get it done this week.

 

[Eddie]

More garbage in the land fill and provided no measurable improvement. Ed

 

[4WD]

Don't like to stock extra filters when a longer filter on one vehicle lets me buy one filter model. (Easier to grip it too) ...
All of mine are vertical ...

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
As long as the bypass valve is the same PSI, no good reason not to use an oversized oil filter.


Exactly. While under a mfg. warranty I'd use caution though.

 

[bbhero]

I agree 4WD.. Next time you all are buying oil filters take a 6607 out of the box and put it in your hand. It's needless to say it's very small. The 7317 is much easier to get a string grip on and unscrew it. The Fram 6607 with the grip on it makes that a fair amount easier to deal with versus the 14612 or M-108 which do not have that feature.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Its a waste... like the majority of discussions in the oil and filter sub-sections. But hey, their entertaining bits of mental masturbation at times.

 

[Artem]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
To say it is miniscule is an overstatement.

The daily variance of normal operation of any vehicle far outweighs these theoretical discussions of "gain" from upsizing a filter. What can be proved in the lab does not always equate to the reality of life.

Consider this: every ying has a yang. A larger filter that may cool a tiny bit "better" due to surface area and capacity in summer, also delays the proper warm-up of the oil in winter. And right now, there is probably some BITOGer out there trying to maximize every last opportunity. Perhaps he'll use an oversized filter for cooling the summer, and then FCI to an undersized one in winter ...

For those who upsize a filter to satisfy that itch, I say go for it. But it is an emotional reaction not based on any tangible real-world data.

Believe it or not, I do use non-spec'd filters in some of my applications. But I do so realizing that I, the individual, am the one at risk and would have full burden, should the unthinkable happen. I do it as a matter of convenience (commonality of filters, for example), not because I think the filter will reduce wear or aid in cooling. All of my equipment is out of OEM warranty, and so I only have to contend with the filter warranty. That risk, regardless of how remote, is mine to bear should something fail. I accept that.


Consider this reality; many OEMs are now extending their O/FCIs, and yet downsizing the filters. What's that tell you? And they have WAY more resources (time, engineers, labs, test equipment) than any of us will ever have in our garage. Some of these vehicles are seeing O/FCIs at 2x or more of what they used to be, and they do so on a smaller filter in many examples. My Fussion could easily go 10k miles on that tiny FL910 filter. And the UOAs showed even longer OCIs were attainable.

You want to upsize? Go for it! But understand there is no rational claim to wear reduction, pumping loss reduction or cooling gained by upsizing a filter in the normal world. And the risk of going off the reservation, however remote, is yours to bear alone.


I must say, I feel Dave brought up an excellent point here to defend "the other side" quite well and it's VERY possible that he's correct. Engines are indeed running cleaner then ever and oils are excellent, until the next spec comes along. Engine manufacturing most likely has higher tolerances so less metals are produced. I remember the UOA on my 07 Civic EX had amazing wear from both 6k intervals and extended out to 12 (2x the OCI recommended by Honda) I'm sure the filters of today aren't getting loaded up by much and smaller is more efficient and better for the environment since less product is used / wasted.

 

[4WD]

So I read through 7 pages cause my filter is 3/4" longer, costs no more, easier to torque up by hand, lets me carry one filter for two makes of vehicles - buy bulk price.
The only time I think of an oil filter Adding to cooling is:
1. Shrouded in aluminum heat sink - and even then you might need the version aviators use
2. Added filter such as the XG16 in my grill inline behind trans cooler

 

[CapitalTruck]

People substitute PF48e with PF63e on applications that call for the 48. They shouldn't as the bypass valves operate at a different pressure (as is evidenced by their different colors). Use the filter specd for your vehicle.

 

[Sayjac]

^^^^ OT And yet, using anecdotes linked* from '51', it's GM that recommends the longer PF63/PF63E as replacement for the factory installed PF48. And 'looks' like you on another forum saying as much. http://www.gm-trucks.com/forums/topic/161621-pf63-pf48-interchangability/

That leads me to wonder if the ACD E ecore poppet color really indicates a different bypass spec or if just which filter for which it's intended? And if it is different, is it really significant?

Either way, in this case I'd prefer to use the classic construction PF63 over the 63E even though the latter has an updated/improved design with poppet bypass. My .02

* https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3724380/AC_DELCO_PF-48??_(CUT_OPEN)

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3723067/AC_DELCO_PF-63?_(CUT_OPEN)_8,0

 

[4WD]

That could be said about going from Motorcraft to Fram Ultra on the Ford.
I know the bipass is up - but running M1/PP 5w30 in Texas - and changing the FU at 5k - should I be worried ?

 

[jhellwig]

Originally Posted By: CapitalTruck
People substitute PF48e with PF63e on applications that call for the 48. They shouldn't as the bypass valves operate at a different pressure (as is evidenced by their different colors). Use the filter specd for your vehicle.


The Baldwin versions spec the same 20 psi bypass. I think the older pf48 has around a 15 psi bypass. I would be concerned more with the ford spec filters that are under 10 psi on the bypass.

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: GSCJR


....on my 1MZ-FE the oil filter is located between the rad and the exhaust manifold. I use the oversize filter for this application which decreases the distance from the manifold to the canister. I always wonder if heat transfer is cause for concern.


I would be concerned about this, the oversize filter is getting closer to the 400 degree (est) exhaust.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: GSCJR
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
Make sure the longer length does not decrease ground clearance, especially with lowered vehicles.

This is a problem on lowered Corvettes.


This ^^^^

Also, on my 1MZ-FE the oil filter is located between the rad and the exhaust manifold. I use the oversize filter for this application which decreases the distance from the manifold to the canister. I always wonder if heat transfer is cause for concern.
I made a heat shield for my filter when the bigger filter put it closer to the manifold. Simple to install.

 

[4WD]

Nice work - was thinking of that reading along ...