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#3375592 - 05/19/14 12:20 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: 2012AccentSE]
2012AccentSE Offline


Registered: 10/08/13
Posts: 160
Loc: TEXAS
Good discussion guys! Albeit some of it comes across as arguments, but I have decided to look for oils that have moly already added to their formulation so that I don't end up adding too much moly to my oil mixture. I like how moly has been around for a long time as a good, proven lubricant. Thanks for the responses! All of them are being considered smile
_________________________
2012 Hyundai Accent SE: Chevron Supreme Conventional 5w30. Bosch oil filter.

First new car! Bought with 7 miles smile

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#3375616 - 05/19/14 12:59 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: 2012AccentSE]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7345
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: 2012AccentSE
Good discussion guys! Albeit some of it comes across as arguments, but I have decided to look for oils that have moly already added to their formulation so that I don't end up adding too much moly to my oil mixture. I like how moly has been around for a long time as a good, proven lubricant. Thanks for the responses! All of them are being considered smile




Mos2 is a different type of moly and not the same as what's found in typical motor oils.
Mos2 acts differently as well.
The organic type found in typical engine oils doesn't plate/anneal the engine parts that touch each other like mos2 does.
Mos2 fills in the hills and valleys typically found on metal parts creating a super smooth surface. Mos2 plates these surfaces and creates a sacrificial layer the parts slide on until oil reaches the moving parts. Once the engine cools the plating effect repeats itself.
In my experience I've found that mos2 doesn't do a whole lot when used in newer engines,however once an engine accumulates miles/wear mos2 will aid in restoring lost mileage and potentially lost efficiency by improving ring sealing against cylinder walls.
In my small 160cc Honda engines,that turn air compressor pumps I use it every second oil change,a few ounces,and I've got motors with in excess of 10000 hours,which is basically unheard of due to the conditions these engines run under onsite,from extreme dust and 35c heat in the summer to -40c in the winter and these high hour engines still start first pull,without anything more than oil changes.
So the 7 dollars I spend per can saves me way more than that once service and replacement costs are considered,especially once you figure I've got 16 of these Honda powered compressors,cost savings become exponential.
And presently I'm tracking mileage on the new to me 2001 Sierra C3,with the awd and 6.0 engine.
Thus far 1000 miles(2 tanks)into tracking mileage my best mpg on my commute since the new fuel pump has been 17mpg at 60mph,which is turning the engine at roughly 1700rpm.
Since my commute is 33 miles each way and traffic non-existent I feel its consistent enough to accurately track mileage in a meaningful test,with wind being the only uncontrolled variable.
I'm going to run 10000 miles like this on this oil sump load then at my next oil change add mos2 and track another 10000 miles and note any changes.
Truck has 200k kms/120k milesish which,from my experience with the LS series engines is enough wear to note any improvements in the noted areas.
I'm changing the plugs this weekend and will note any improvements when that variable is considered.
I only adjust a single variable at a time,so any changes can be noted and proper credit given to each adjustment(if any improvement is noted).
Bitogers are a tough crowd which is why I only share my experiences when asked. I don't need the headache that inevitably comes with any claims made when using an oil additive.
Liqui-moly products are the only additives I will spend money on. I've found that they work as described,however today's engine oils are so good that oil additives really aren't required,however in my quest for improved fuel efficiency reducing friction can help gain a mile or 2 per gallon.
In a big v-8 engine a reduction in friction is more noticeable than in a small inline 4 cylinder. More moving parts touching each other means more friction.


Flame suit on.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3375621 - 05/19/14 01:12 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: Clevy]
2012AccentSE Offline


Registered: 10/08/13
Posts: 160
Loc: TEXAS
Great points, Clevy! Would you say that moly coats and bonds similar to Ti?
_________________________
2012 Hyundai Accent SE: Chevron Supreme Conventional 5w30. Bosch oil filter.

First new car! Bought with 7 miles smile

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#3375651 - 05/19/14 01:40 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: 2012AccentSE]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7345
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: 2012AccentSE
Great points, Clevy! Would you say that moly coats and bonds similar to Ti?



I am not familiar with the tribo-chemical layer or how the mechanism works as far as titanium is concerned.
However because I'm never satisfied with partial answers I have emailed liqui-moly and discussed mos2 at length with them,because of all the horror stories I read about mos2.

I learned they do something special to prevent mos2 from settling and creating deposits or slime,which I can confirm based on tearing down my old 2v which used mos2 for over 100k.
Their particulate size is micron and sub-micron sized so it passes easily thru most(all) commercially available oil filters.
Boron is also part of their formulation to aid in tbn retention throughout an entire oil change interval.
And though they say on the can to use at every oil change I've found that once used at full strength only half dosage is required to maintain any benefits because once the moving parts are plated the surface only needs to have enough mos2 to maintain the plating.
I've got probably in the neighbourhood of 30 emails from liqui-moly because of the different questions I asked and how the mechanism worked,so they had someone in their tech department answer me and not just standard customer service.
I found they didn't beat around the bush,give me the "proprietary" blow off and treated my questions,and me as though it/I mattered to them.
Which is another reason they are the only company I will buy any type of friction modifier/oil additive from.
Yes I buy mmo for vacuum line top end soaks and if I could get kreen or chemtool I'd use it too,but for my needs mmo is easy to acquire and fills my needs as far as a cleaner goes.
I happily buy liqui-moly products when I can find them though.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3376114 - 05/20/14 02:06 AM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: Sam2000]
simple_simon Offline


Registered: 01/26/11
Posts: 103
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: Sam2000
Ok this is Hillarious.

In Dave's attempt to say MoS2 is approved as an engine oil additive by manufacturers, he said this:

Originally Posted By: dave5358
Approved by vehicle manufacturers? Molykote (Dow Corning's trade name for MoS2 in oil suspension) complies with General Motors (Opel) spec B0401264, Volkswagen specification TL52112 and B7217, General Electric's specification TIL-1117-3Ri and Pratt & Whitney's specificition PWA-36246. And, one of the first spectacular uses of MoS2 in motor oil suspension was by Rolls-Royce in their Merlin engine. Granted, the Rolls Royce supercharged V-12 water cooled Merlin was only used in airplanes but the engine application seems appropriate. Pratt & Whitney is still using it.


ALL those manufacturer approvals are for Molykote P74 Super Anti Seize.

This is not an OIL ADDITIVE!!!!!!

I hope you're not using Molykote anti seize in your oil Dave because you found out it has GM and VW approval.

Talk about misstatements! You actually had to gall to claim Molykote is manufacturer approved as an oil additive based on manufacturer approval for Molykote anti seize.


Great post. DB won't be responding.

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#3376728 - 05/20/14 06:13 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: simple_simon]
wag123 Offline


Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 552
Loc: Texas
Once again, I would like to point out that our host has provided some educational reading material about MoS2 right here on BITOG. Anyone who says that it doesn't do anything should definately read this material!
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/moly-basics/
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/applications-for-lubrication/
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/what-is-blow-by/

Liqui-Moly/Lubro-Moly is a very reputable company. MoS2 is NOT snake oil! Their product has been on the market since the 1970s and has been used by many hundreds of thousands of people, most of whom are long-time repeat customers who found out about the product by word-of-mouth (like myself). I have been using MoS2 for over 25 years in all of my vehicles over many hundreds of thousands of miles. The MoS2 product is well proven in real world use and it does what they say it does.
IMO there are only four additives that are effective and worthy of use in MY vehicles... MoS2, Lubegard, Techron, and TCW3. I have gotten tangible benefits from all four of them.


Edited by wag123 (05/20/14 06:21 PM)

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#3376747 - 05/20/14 06:58 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: wag123]
147_Grain Offline


Registered: 03/11/13
Posts: 1308
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: wag123
Liqui-Moly/Lubro-Moly is a very reputable company. MoS2 is NOT snake oil! Their product has been on the market since the 1970s and has been used by many hundreds of thousands of people, most of whom are long-time repeat customers who found out about the product by word-of-mouth (like myself).


Amen

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#3376748 - 05/20/14 06:58 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: 2012AccentSE]
dailydriver Offline


Registered: 03/14/06
Posts: 7065
Loc: Bucks County, Pa.
^^^Red Line SI-1 and Amsoil PI could substitute for the Techron as far as gas additives go, but yes, are much harder to come by. wink
_________________________
2000 Z28 1SC 6 speed 175K miles
Red Line 0W-40/Sustina 0W-20 (20/80 mix)
Fram Ultra filter
Synpower 75W-140/4oz. XL-3
Red Line D4 in the T56

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#3376812 - 05/20/14 07:57 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: wag123]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9923
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
I think this may be the test people associate with VW and MoS2. Look at example 12.

https://www.google.com/patents/US3223625
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#3376820 - 05/20/14 08:00 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: wag123]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7345
Loc: Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: wag123
Once again, I would like to point out that our host has provided some educational reading material about MoS2 right here on BITOG. Anyone who says that it doesn't do anything should definately read this material!
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/moly-basics/
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/applications-for-lubrication/
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/what-is-blow-by/

Liqui-Moly/Lubro-Moly is a very reputable company. MoS2 is NOT snake oil! Their product has been on the market since the 1970s and has been used by many hundreds of thousands of people, most of whom are long-time repeat customers who found out about the product by word-of-mouth (like myself). I have been using MoS2 for over 25 years in all of my vehicles over many hundreds of thousands of miles. The MoS2 product is well proven in real world use and it does what they say it does.
IMO there are only four additives that are effective and worthy of use in MY vehicles... MoS2, Lubegard, Techron, and TCW3. I have gotten tangible benefits from all four of them.



I haven't used lubegaurd however I have used everything else and I gotta say I agree with you.
I'm not one to spend good money on stuff that doesn't work,so if I found a product didn't work as advertised I certainly wouldn't spend good money on it.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3376921 - 05/20/14 09:15 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: Trav]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Trav
I think this may be the test people associate with VW and MoS2. Look at example 12.

https://www.google.com/patents/US3223625

Nice addition, thanks. According to the parts guy at the local VW dealer, VWs Molykote MoS2 is still in their parts list. He doesn't have any on hand (no surprise there) but he's ordered some for me. Stay tuned.

BTW, if you go down the very bottom of the patent application link posted by Trav, you will see another 1961 patent in the name of Molykote Produktions Gmbh, a German branch of Dow Corning. If you follow the link in that patent, you will see another patent in the name of Alpha Molykote Corporation, yet another Dow Corning operation - they were researching this back in the 1950's. I'm not sure when the following Brazilian ad appeared, but Dow Corning has had a retail MoS2 oil additive product for at least 60 years, maybe 1954 or earlier.



According to Wikipedia, Liqui Moly was formed in 1957 because they, too, had a patent based on liquified Molybdenum Disulfide.

And for those who think this is a forgotten powder, Wikipedia has a nifty chart of showing world production which suggests otherwise.
_________________________
2006 Forester XT
2008 Corolla LE

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#3376990 - 05/20/14 10:50 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: dave5358]
Mystic Offline


Registered: 03/05/03
Posts: 7516
Loc: Colorado
Dave, before you use that stuff in the engine in a car or truck I think you need to do yourself a favor and make sure what the intended uses are. Moly is used for different things.

If I was going to use a moly supplement in my car engine I would use LM, available from NAPA (I would probably have to order it). By the way, Lubegard is still available from NAPA as well as far as I know.

About the only stuff I believe in anymore are Lubegard products, LM moly, Schaeffer's, Bars Leaks, Sta-bil, Techron and Gumout Regane, MMO and Kreen, and that is about it. I am going to buy some Techron pretty soon to put into my gas but I am trying to actually reduce any additive use to almost nothing. For example, I am thinking about just using gas in my wheeled weed trimmer and my lawnmower and not use Stal-bil and MMO.

I might use Kreen if I can get some in my car once a year.

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#3377007 - 05/20/14 11:14 PM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: 2012AccentSE]
edhackett Offline


Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1544
Loc: Sequim, WA
The product above says it is for use in manual transmissions and differentials. It's not an engine oil additive.

Ed
_________________________
Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers, accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers.

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#3377153 - 05/21/14 08:00 AM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: edhackett]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 9923
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
The Molykote A2 is. I heard it was frequently used in South America in the air cooled VW engines whether or not it was used OEM i have no idea. Widman would probably know.

http://www.abcimports.com.br/aditivo-molykote-a2-p313




Edited by Trav (05/21/14 08:02 AM)
_________________________
ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.

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#3377157 - 05/21/14 08:05 AM Re: liqui moly mos2 additive? [Re: Trav]
dave5358 Offline


Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 669
Loc: North Bend
Originally Posted By: Trav
The Molykote A2 is. I heard it was frequently used in South America in the air cooled VW engines whether or not it was used OEM i have no idea. Widman would probably know.

http://www.abcimports.com.br/aditivo-molykote-a2-p313




Trav: Try this link instead:

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2008 Corolla LE

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