Shell - GTL - Pennzoil
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MolaKule
Staff member
FWIW, I went to Walmart today to get a printer cartridge for my HP and of course I always browse the automotive section.
Walmart had the PU in 5W30 for $21/5 Quart Jug.
Walmart had the PU in 5W30 for $21/5 Quart Jug.
Originally Posted By: Solarent
[quote: Coprolite]
Shell uses a wide range of oil descriptions in their MSDS's. Some seem quite specific, others not so.
What do you think the "synthetic hydrocarbon" refers to, group III?
QSUD 5W20
Blend of synthetic hydrocarbon and synthetic ester oils and additives.
QSUD 5W30
Blend of severely hydrotreated slack wax, polyolefins and additives.
So Group 2 and 5
PU 5W20
Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil, consisting largely of branched, cyclic and linear hydrocarbons having carbon numbers in the range of C18 to C50.
Highly refined mineral oils, synthetic hydrocarbon oils and additives.
[quote: Coprolite]
Shell uses a wide range of oil descriptions in their MSDS's. Some seem quite specific, others not so.
What do you think the "synthetic hydrocarbon" refers to, group III?
QSUD 5W20
Blend of synthetic hydrocarbon and synthetic ester oils and additives.
QSUD 5W30
Blend of severely hydrotreated slack wax, polyolefins and additives.
So Group 2 and 5
PU 5W20
Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil, consisting largely of branched, cyclic and linear hydrocarbons having carbon numbers in the range of C18 to C50.
Highly refined mineral oils, synthetic hydrocarbon oils and additives.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: mr_diy
What do you think the "synthetic hydrocarbon" refers to, group III?
The Wikipedia definition of "Hydrocarbon":
Quote:
a hydrocarbon is an organic compound consisting entirely of hydrogen and carbon.
polyolefin = hydrocarbon.
Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil = hydrocarbon.
severely hydrotreated slack wax = hydrocarbon.
ester oils = hydrocarbon.
So...
synthetic hydrocarbon = Group III, Group III+, Group IV, and Group V.
QSUD 5W20 MSDS tells us it definitively contains Group V base-stocks and additives. It also contains a possible mixture of Group III, III+, and IV base-stocks.
QSUD 5w30 MSDS tells us it definitively contains Group III & IV base-stocks plus additives.
PU 5w20 MSDS tells us it definitively contains Group III+. It also contains a possible mixture of Group III, IV, and V base-stocks.
Moral of the story MSDS are very vague. Shell does not divulge proprietary data.
What do you think the "synthetic hydrocarbon" refers to, group III?
The Wikipedia definition of "Hydrocarbon":
Quote:
a hydrocarbon is an organic compound consisting entirely of hydrogen and carbon.
polyolefin = hydrocarbon.
Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil = hydrocarbon.
severely hydrotreated slack wax = hydrocarbon.
ester oils = hydrocarbon.
So...
synthetic hydrocarbon = Group III, Group III+, Group IV, and Group V.
QSUD 5W20 MSDS tells us it definitively contains Group V base-stocks and additives. It also contains a possible mixture of Group III, III+, and IV base-stocks.
QSUD 5w30 MSDS tells us it definitively contains Group III & IV base-stocks plus additives.
PU 5w20 MSDS tells us it definitively contains Group III+. It also contains a possible mixture of Group III, IV, and V base-stocks.
Moral of the story MSDS are very vague. Shell does not divulge proprietary data.
Last edited:
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
QSUD 5W20
Blend of synthetic hydrocarbon and synthetic ester oils and additives. The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
PAO GroupIV and POE GroupV with additives. Additives may include certain esters as well.
Quote:
QSUD 5W30
Blend of severely hydrotreated slack wax, polyolefins and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
GroupIII and PAO GroupIV and additives. Additives may include certain esters.
Quote:
PU 5W20
Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil, consisting largely of branched, cyclic and linear hydrocarbons having carbon numbers in the range of C18 to C50.
Highly refined mineral oils, synthetic hydrocarbon oils and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
GroupIII+ derived from the GTL process, and PAO GroupIV with additives. Additives may contain certain esters.
The highly refined mineral oil is used as the additive carrier only.
Quote:
Moral of the story MSDS are very vague.
MSDS' are not meant to give their exact formulation. An MSDS is a safety data sheet.
QSUD 5W20
Blend of synthetic hydrocarbon and synthetic ester oils and additives. The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
PAO GroupIV and POE GroupV with additives. Additives may include certain esters as well.
Quote:
QSUD 5W30
Blend of severely hydrotreated slack wax, polyolefins and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
GroupIII and PAO GroupIV and additives. Additives may include certain esters.
Quote:
PU 5W20
Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil, consisting largely of branched, cyclic and linear hydrocarbons having carbon numbers in the range of C18 to C50.
Highly refined mineral oils, synthetic hydrocarbon oils and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
GroupIII+ derived from the GTL process, and PAO GroupIV with additives. Additives may contain certain esters.
The highly refined mineral oil is used as the additive carrier only.
Quote:
Moral of the story MSDS are very vague.
MSDS' are not meant to give their exact formulation. An MSDS is a safety data sheet.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
QSUD 5W30
Blend of severely hydrotreated slack wax, polyolefins and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
GroupIII and PAO GroupIV and additives. Additives may include certain esters.
Not to nitpick, but is the chart calling hydrotreated as Group II and hydrocracked as Group III is incorrect?
Quote:
QSUD 5W30
Blend of severely hydrotreated slack wax, polyolefins and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
GroupIII and PAO GroupIV and additives. Additives may include certain esters.
Not to nitpick, but is the chart calling hydrotreated as Group II and hydrocracked as Group III is incorrect?
Originally Posted By: Ducman
Quote:
Would SN Helix Ultra be GTL?
it is highly likely
This is a bit strange. If you look at SN Helix Ultra 5w-40 spec sheet, for example, the specs haven't changed at all from the SM version.
http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_Loc...n-AU%29_TDS.pdf
But if you look at SN Pennzoil Ultra 5w-40, there have in fact been notable changes to viscosity, HTHS, pour point, and NOACK.
http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140007500286_20130123090_5.pdf
What I'm saying is that when they were at API SM, the two appeared to be identical products. But with the arrival of API SN, they no longer are.
Quote:
Would SN Helix Ultra be GTL?
it is highly likely
This is a bit strange. If you look at SN Helix Ultra 5w-40 spec sheet, for example, the specs haven't changed at all from the SM version.
http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_Loc...n-AU%29_TDS.pdf
But if you look at SN Pennzoil Ultra 5w-40, there have in fact been notable changes to viscosity, HTHS, pour point, and NOACK.
http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140007500286_20130123090_5.pdf
What I'm saying is that when they were at API SM, the two appeared to be identical products. But with the arrival of API SN, they no longer are.
and THIS is exactly why I stopped making my own syn blends, or mixing oils of any type
From MR DIY
from their MSDS
QSUD 5W20
Blend of synthetic hydrocarbon and synthetic ester oils and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
QSUD 5W30
Blend of severely hydrotreated slack wax, polyolefins and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
PU 5W20
Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil, consisting largely of branched, cyclic and linear hydrocarbons having carbon numbers in the range of C18 to C50.
Highly refined mineral oils, synthetic hydrocarbon oils and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
So is GTL; Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil or synthetic hydrocarbon oils?
From MR DIY
from their MSDS
QSUD 5W20
Blend of synthetic hydrocarbon and synthetic ester oils and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
QSUD 5W30
Blend of severely hydrotreated slack wax, polyolefins and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
PU 5W20
Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil, consisting largely of branched, cyclic and linear hydrocarbons having carbon numbers in the range of C18 to C50.
Highly refined mineral oils, synthetic hydrocarbon oils and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
So is GTL; Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil or synthetic hydrocarbon oils?
So if QSUD 5W20 is a blend of synthetic hydrocarbons and synthetic ester oils, does that mean it's pure pao synthetic group IV? I got 5 jugs of this oil on sale at Walmart for 5 bucks each. Would this be superior to the hydrocracked oil?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: steve20
and THIS is exactly why I stopped making my own syn blends, or mixing oils of any type
From MR DIY
from their MSDS
QSUD 5W20
Blend of synthetic hydrocarbon and synthetic ester oils and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
QSUD 5W30
Blend of severely hydrotreated slack wax, polyolefins and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
PU 5W20
Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil, consisting largely of branched, cyclic and linear hydrocarbons having carbon numbers in the range of C18 to C50.
Highly refined mineral oils, synthetic hydrocarbon oils and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
So is GTL; Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil or synthetic hydrocarbon oils?
GTL is Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil. That makes it synthetic because it is synthesized from smaller molecules.
and THIS is exactly why I stopped making my own syn blends, or mixing oils of any type
From MR DIY
from their MSDS
QSUD 5W20
Blend of synthetic hydrocarbon and synthetic ester oils and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
QSUD 5W30
Blend of severely hydrotreated slack wax, polyolefins and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
PU 5W20
Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil, consisting largely of branched, cyclic and linear hydrocarbons having carbon numbers in the range of C18 to C50.
Highly refined mineral oils, synthetic hydrocarbon oils and additives.
The highly refined mineral oil contains w) DMSO-extract, according to IP346.
The highly refined mineral oil is only present as additive diluent.
So is GTL; Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil or synthetic hydrocarbon oils?
GTL is Fischer-Tropsch derived base oil. That makes it synthetic because it is synthesized from smaller molecules.
GTL: I wonder if Shell will be interested in the Navy's new technology to convert seawater into kerosene? The reduction and hydrogenation of CO2 dissolved in seawater to form hydrocarbons is accomplished using a catalyst that is similar to those used for Fischer-Tropsch reduction and hydrogenation of carbon monoxide. By modifying the surface composition of iron catalysts in fixed-bed reactors, the Navy has successfully improved CO2 conversion efficiencies up to 60 percent.
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