4R70W Neutraling on hard stops

[Colt45ws]

So, Ive been trying to figure this one out in my CVLX. A couple times on my trip to Vegas and back when I would come off the highway, make a hard stop at the end of the ramp and if I got back into it really quick I would get a 'neutral drop' with the engine free revving then it slamming into gear.
I got it to do it yesterday while I was driving around. I was on wet asphalt and when it did this it broke traction right rear.
Im pretty certain its because the pump is sucking air. I have the correct amount of fluid in it, but I think the deep transmission pan I have on it is allowing too much fluid movement. The factory 4R70 pan has a small 2x2" extended sump in the middle of the pan and the filter pickup sticks into it for this reason.
I went out and found the filter I recently pulled off the CVPI and measured the filter intake extension as 1 1/8" OD.
Ive been thinking about putting something on it to extend the pickup down further into the pan. I found some silicone radiator hose sold by speedshops on the internet in 1 1/4" ID x 6" L that may just work. I think I would only need to drop the intake a couple inches; maybe 2 or 3" at the most.
What do you guys think?

 

[Rand]

maybe use the regular pan and an upgraded trans cooler with thermostat?

 

[Ramblejam]

Mirroring what Rand said -- if the aftermarket pan is causing issues, why not just install the OE model?

 

[Colt45ws]

I could do that, though I would prefer to keep my deep pan. If I did that I would get a bung welded into it for a drain plug.
Hmmm. I still think I'm gonna try my idea. That's the simple fix, of course and it did occur to me but I want to see if I can fix this problem. I know I'm not the only person running a deep pan on one of these.

 

[crazyoildude]

put the old pan back (just asked my brother which had a transmission shop until about 3 yrs ago) if it aint brke dont fix it he always tells me)

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
I could do that, though I would prefer to keep my deep pan. If I did that I would get a bung welded into it for a drain plug.
Hmmm. I still think I'm gonna try my idea. That's the simple fix, of course and it did occur to me but I want to see if I can fix this problem. I know I'm not the only person running a deep pan on one of these.


And probably not the only one with same issue... Extending the pickup should fix the problem as would adding additional pint of fluid...

After owning five Grand Marquis, I'm yet to see a need for a deep sump... Even the AOD in my T-Bird that I beat like a red headed stepchild has the stock pan...

 

[Colt45ws]

Im borderline on fluid level as it is now. I dont really want to add anymore.
One of my goals this year is a stall converter. I'd like to have the additional capacity to make up for the smaller converter.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
Im borderline on fluid level as it is now. I dont really want to add anymore.
One of my goals this year is a stall converter.


Assuming the converter is a lockup it won't make any difference one way or other... I run a 9.5" in the AOD I mentioned...

 

[Colt45ws]

What ever is going on is not what I thought was.
Okay, so I haven't been driving the LX since this post, Ive been driving the PI. So, Wednesday, I got a Innovate LM-2 Wideband and I installed it in (the LX) the wee hours of this morning and have been driving the [censored] out of it since.
So, I just a bit ago I took it on the highway and got off at my favorite turn around.

I couldnt get it to go! I went WOT and it wouldnt go over 20-30MPH so I backed off and crawled up the hill at 20. Once I was on the other side I put it in neutral and then back and it still wasnt right, Manual 2nd, same thing. Then came the interesting part. I put it in Manual 1st and it thumped and stopped the car. It didnt stall the engine so the convertor was unlocked, but it brought the car down to 0MPH very quickly. IIRC, in Manual 1st it also brings on the reverse band for additional holding power. In (D) 1st is just the forward clutch. So I think I have a clutch that isnt disengaging all the time and sticking on. Whatever clutch will make the trans stop the output shaft with Forward clutch and reverse band engaged is the culprit.
After I stopped, I put it back in (D) and it thunk'd and was back to normal operation. I baby'd it home just fine.

 

[Colt45ws]

Yeah, its straight up blown now. I took it out and tried to replicate the above. I ended up doing a WOT 2-3...well, it TRIED to do a WOT 2-3 and it never happened. There was a bump where it should have been and it kept going in 2nd into the Rev Limiter. Getting off the highway at the next exit it SLAMMED into second and bounced off the rev limiter again while coasting down.
Trying to get going at the bottom of the ramp it shuddered bad in 1st. Goes into second fine, but 3rd never happens.
Ended up driving it home on rural back roads at 30MPH in Manual 2nd so it wouldn't try to go into 3rd.
So I grenade'd something. Whatever it was was probably ready to go anyway judging by how it was acting. Ill be most curious to see what blew up and why.

 

[The_Eric]

Please keep us posted.

 

[Colt45ws]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Please keep us posted.

I will. I plan on going and getting a trans tomorrow. It'll be the best time since I work nights M-F its very difficult to go do anything during normal business hours, but since I have tomorrow off Ill go and pick one up, if I can.
Im not going to do the swap until it warms up, though.

I forgot to mention, I got home and checked the fluid. It was at a good level, clean and red, though it smelled bad. Go Racor Trans filter! That'll be interesting to cut that filter open. I think it MIGHT have 200 miles on that new filter I just put on so most everything it caught will be from that event, Im sure.

 

[turtlevette]

You could try Lucas trans fix just for giggles to see if it'll get it going again. It works for a lot of people. Sometimes plungers just get jammed up. This stuff unsticks things.

If the trans was working fine before the deep pan, you blew it up by using the stock filter pickup tube instead of the deep pan version. They normally come with the deep pan.

 

[Colt45ws]

There is no deep pan pickup tube.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
There is no deep pan pickup tube.


On GM products there is. And it's done for a very good reason.

Just put the trans fix in and motor on.