I have used RTS 5W-40 pre T6 and T6 (summer towing use) in my 1997 F150 since it had 50,000 miles. It now has 244,000 miles. At the 212,000 mile mark, I changed the heads (to PI), head gaskets and timing chain assembly, but I have never changed the cats. The only time the CEL came on was for a clogged EGR passage. When the heads were off, I could see straight through the pre oxidation catalysts and they looked as clean as a whistle. I did all this work because the valve guides were shot and the truck was consuming a quart every 1000 miles. I fixed the oil consumption, but prior to this, there was a bunch of RTS 5W40 burning out of the tailpipe. Just like many companies, I assume Shell is erring on the safe side. I cant say I blame them. I will say on a side note, I'm glad Ive got M1 0W20 in now with all the sub zero and near zero weather we have been having.
Rotella T6 5w-40 in a Gas engine
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Your experience, along with that of many others shows that any fears of cat poisoning through the use of any flavor of Rotella are probably overblown.
SOPUS is probably just being conservative in their recommendations.
T6 is a favorite amoung the turbo Subie and old BMW crowds so if there was any evidence of cat failures involving the use of this oil, I think we'd have heard about it by now.
My local Subaru guru uses T6 in all of his cars. I've used various Rotella oils in the past in various applications, some of which were OBD II and never had a problem.
A dozen or so years back, I ran the 5W-40 for several OCIs in our 3.0 Aerostar. I thought (wrongly) that a forty grade would be better for protection and that the 5W rating meant that it would be as well suited to cold weather use as a 5W-30, wrong again based upon the published specs.
Still, even though this oil may have been thick when really cold, I never had any problems with cold weather starts nor did this very high HTHS oil hurt fuel economy.
This oil was also really cheap at the time.
If I had an application that really needed a forty grade synthtetic, I think I'd just run M1 0W-40, since cost per quart by the jug from Walmart works out to be about the same and the M1 is at least intended for gassers and has certs from all of the major Euro makes.
The question isn't so much whether T6 is a good choice as it is why bother when M1 0W-40 costs about the same.
SOPUS is probably just being conservative in their recommendations.
T6 is a favorite amoung the turbo Subie and old BMW crowds so if there was any evidence of cat failures involving the use of this oil, I think we'd have heard about it by now.
My local Subaru guru uses T6 in all of his cars. I've used various Rotella oils in the past in various applications, some of which were OBD II and never had a problem.
A dozen or so years back, I ran the 5W-40 for several OCIs in our 3.0 Aerostar. I thought (wrongly) that a forty grade would be better for protection and that the 5W rating meant that it would be as well suited to cold weather use as a 5W-30, wrong again based upon the published specs.
Still, even though this oil may have been thick when really cold, I never had any problems with cold weather starts nor did this very high HTHS oil hurt fuel economy.
This oil was also really cheap at the time.
If I had an application that really needed a forty grade synthtetic, I think I'd just run M1 0W-40, since cost per quart by the jug from Walmart works out to be about the same and the M1 is at least intended for gassers and has certs from all of the major Euro makes.
The question isn't so much whether T6 is a good choice as it is why bother when M1 0W-40 costs about the same.
Found this link on shear strength testing of various oils.
http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/
Rotella ranks pretty low but am not sure of the validity of the test. Anyone on the forum know of any previous posts discussing such testing?
http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/
Rotella ranks pretty low but am not sure of the validity of the test. Anyone on the forum know of any previous posts discussing such testing?
So rotella t-6 meets the requirements to be an API SM,which means its suitable for any vehicle requiring a 5w-40 SM oil.
It's just that simple.
Now if shell's public relations department has sent tracker their typical form answer,with no real data,just cover your rear answers,which is typical,then what should we all glean from this?
I've got the answer.
We can glean that tracker and his attitude will last about as long here as a snowball in hades,that this is trackers very first answer from a big oil company and he's not aware of how to read between the lines,and last but not least that this dual rated oil meets the API requirements for an SM 40 grade,which we all know have different phos requirements to meet the SM classification,which seems to be soaring clear over trackers head yet he's choosing to ignore the data stamped on the jugs.
Alas my dear bitogers we have here a lost cause. Fear not,for everyone of these that we are unable to help see the light there are a few we can help,so bitogers I suggest just writing this guy off,it seems there is a thickness there that even dynamite cannot soften so waste no more time trying.
Take solace in the fact that there are some we can help but tracker isn't one of them.
So tracker I'm pretty sure your not long for this site so I bid you adieu,and with any luck you'll not join any other forums I'm a part of.
Guys like you bring a forum down.
Many of us here don't agree,and often disagree passionately however we don't lower ourselves to defeating the censor in order to take shots at each other.
I may not agree with everyone,and I may not like everyone however they have the same right as I to their opinion and shouldn't be sworn at for it.
Live and let live man.
It's just that simple.
Now if shell's public relations department has sent tracker their typical form answer,with no real data,just cover your rear answers,which is typical,then what should we all glean from this?
I've got the answer.
We can glean that tracker and his attitude will last about as long here as a snowball in hades,that this is trackers very first answer from a big oil company and he's not aware of how to read between the lines,and last but not least that this dual rated oil meets the API requirements for an SM 40 grade,which we all know have different phos requirements to meet the SM classification,which seems to be soaring clear over trackers head yet he's choosing to ignore the data stamped on the jugs.
Alas my dear bitogers we have here a lost cause. Fear not,for everyone of these that we are unable to help see the light there are a few we can help,so bitogers I suggest just writing this guy off,it seems there is a thickness there that even dynamite cannot soften so waste no more time trying.
Take solace in the fact that there are some we can help but tracker isn't one of them.
So tracker I'm pretty sure your not long for this site so I bid you adieu,and with any luck you'll not join any other forums I'm a part of.
Guys like you bring a forum down.
Many of us here don't agree,and often disagree passionately however we don't lower ourselves to defeating the censor in order to take shots at each other.
I may not agree with everyone,and I may not like everyone however they have the same right as I to their opinion and shouldn't be sworn at for it.
Live and let live man.
It's a very small mind indeed that thinks they know more than does the tech department of the manufacturer of the oil. Also, I didn't call the guy a [censored] but rather, I used it to describe his complaining. BIG difference that you obviously missed so, who is the lost cause here????
Also, it is because of the higher Phosphorous levels that it is probably not recommended. New standards attempt to reduce these levels to around 800 ppm and although these standards may not apply to heavier weight oils, Rotella knows their oil still exceeds these levels and that's probably why they don't recommend their oil for use in cat converters.
Also, it is because of the higher Phosphorous levels that it is probably not recommended. New standards attempt to reduce these levels to around 800 ppm and although these standards may not apply to heavier weight oils, Rotella knows their oil still exceeds these levels and that's probably why they don't recommend their oil for use in cat converters.
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Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
It's a very small mind indeed that thinks they know more than does the tech department of the manufacturer of the oil. Also, I didn't call the guy a but rather, I used it to describe his complaining. BIG difference that you obviously missed so, who is the lost cause here????
Also, it is because of the higher Phosphorous levels that it is probably not recommended. New standards attempt to reduce these levels to around 800 ppm and although these standards may not apply to heavier weight oils, Rotella knows their oil still exceeds these levels and that's probably why they don't recommend their oil for use in cat converters.
So are you saying if your owners manual says to use a 5w40 meeting SM, and its a gasoline engine you can't use it? Even thought the T6 meets both of those requirements?
It's a very small mind indeed that thinks they know more than does the tech department of the manufacturer of the oil. Also, I didn't call the guy a but rather, I used it to describe his complaining. BIG difference that you obviously missed so, who is the lost cause here????
Also, it is because of the higher Phosphorous levels that it is probably not recommended. New standards attempt to reduce these levels to around 800 ppm and although these standards may not apply to heavier weight oils, Rotella knows their oil still exceeds these levels and that's probably why they don't recommend their oil for use in cat converters.
So are you saying if your owners manual says to use a 5w40 meeting SM, and its a gasoline engine you can't use it? Even thought the T6 meets both of those requirements?
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I've read here that diesel rated oils/HDEO's can be abrasive to gasoline engines due to the detergents needed in diesels.
Why make such a off the wall statement ? Dual rated oils will do no harm to a properly maintained engine.
I've read here that diesel rated oils/HDEO's can be abrasive to gasoline engines due to the detergents needed in diesels.
Why make such a off the wall statement ? Dual rated oils will do no harm to a properly maintained engine.
Originally Posted By: skellyman
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I've read here that diesel rated oils/HDEO's can be abrasive to gasoline engines due to the detergents needed in diesels.
Why make such a off the wall statement ? Dual rated oils will do no harm to a properly maintained engine.
This is not an entirely off the wall statement.
Rotella 5W-40 is formulated primarily for diesels and it does contain a lot of magnesium relative to any current PCMO.
Magnesium is an effective detergent but there are concerns about its abrasiveness. Shell appears to have substituted magnesium for calcium in this oil, since the calcium levels are very low by PCMO standards.
The magnesium also serves as an effective soot dispersant, which diesels need and gassers don't.
There must be a good reason for Shell to recommend against the use of this oil in catalytic converter equipped vehicles and I wonder whether this is related to the magnesium levels?
OTOH, how many SI engines calling for an API SM oil don't exhale through catalytic converters?
I know that there are many who have long used T6 in SI engines with no noted harm to the cats. I've used it myself in the past.
I just find it a little disturbing that Shell recommends that this oil not be used in applications with catalytic converters, dual rated or not.
Why even bother with this oil for a gasser when you can get M1 0W-40 for about the same price?
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I've read here that diesel rated oils/HDEO's can be abrasive to gasoline engines due to the detergents needed in diesels.
Why make such a off the wall statement ? Dual rated oils will do no harm to a properly maintained engine.
This is not an entirely off the wall statement.
Rotella 5W-40 is formulated primarily for diesels and it does contain a lot of magnesium relative to any current PCMO.
Magnesium is an effective detergent but there are concerns about its abrasiveness. Shell appears to have substituted magnesium for calcium in this oil, since the calcium levels are very low by PCMO standards.
The magnesium also serves as an effective soot dispersant, which diesels need and gassers don't.
There must be a good reason for Shell to recommend against the use of this oil in catalytic converter equipped vehicles and I wonder whether this is related to the magnesium levels?
OTOH, how many SI engines calling for an API SM oil don't exhale through catalytic converters?
I know that there are many who have long used T6 in SI engines with no noted harm to the cats. I've used it myself in the past.
I just find it a little disturbing that Shell recommends that this oil not be used in applications with catalytic converters, dual rated or not.
Why even bother with this oil for a gasser when you can get M1 0W-40 for about the same price?
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
API specifications only limit Phosphorous content in 20 and 30-weight oils. 40 and above, there are no limits. So RT6 can have 1200ppm P and still meet SM and SN specifications. That said, I do believe RT6 is probably the most over-recommended oil on this site. Too many people want to put it in gasoline engines because of its high Phos content. Yes, it is dual-rated, but its primary rating is CJ4, meaning it is formulated primarily for diesel engines.
You've said this quite a few times recently. Would you mind sharing a bit more of your reasoning/evidence? As I said in my previous post, ILSAC GF-5 formulations from Castrol, Mobil 1 and others have large concentrations of Magnesium, just like RT6, and they're obviously not intended for diesels. Is their something other than your distaste for magnesium and your discomfort with an oil marketed primarily to the HD diesel market?
Here's a set of UOAs for a heavily tracked Nissan GTR, the latest is RT6 and the others are Redline. LINK It sure seems like RT6 holds up well in this most demanding application. Not bad for $5/qt compared to Redline at twice the price. And that's why it gets recommended so often in the Subaru and older BMW communities. Not because we think it's the hottest thing since sunburn, but because it's a great oil at a great price and readily available.
Sure, you could buy Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w40 or M1 ESP Formula M 5w40 and they'd be "more correct" for a gasoline application, but those are also mixed-fleet oils and they're hard to find and expensive. I've personally never seen any evidence that RT6 performs anything but excellently, nor do I have any reason to believe Euro-Spec 5w40 gasoline oils would perform any better in a gasoline car.
Interested in your thinking.
API specifications only limit Phosphorous content in 20 and 30-weight oils. 40 and above, there are no limits. So RT6 can have 1200ppm P and still meet SM and SN specifications. That said, I do believe RT6 is probably the most over-recommended oil on this site. Too many people want to put it in gasoline engines because of its high Phos content. Yes, it is dual-rated, but its primary rating is CJ4, meaning it is formulated primarily for diesel engines.
You've said this quite a few times recently. Would you mind sharing a bit more of your reasoning/evidence? As I said in my previous post, ILSAC GF-5 formulations from Castrol, Mobil 1 and others have large concentrations of Magnesium, just like RT6, and they're obviously not intended for diesels. Is their something other than your distaste for magnesium and your discomfort with an oil marketed primarily to the HD diesel market?
Here's a set of UOAs for a heavily tracked Nissan GTR, the latest is RT6 and the others are Redline. LINK It sure seems like RT6 holds up well in this most demanding application. Not bad for $5/qt compared to Redline at twice the price. And that's why it gets recommended so often in the Subaru and older BMW communities. Not because we think it's the hottest thing since sunburn, but because it's a great oil at a great price and readily available.
Sure, you could buy Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w40 or M1 ESP Formula M 5w40 and they'd be "more correct" for a gasoline application, but those are also mixed-fleet oils and they're hard to find and expensive. I've personally never seen any evidence that RT6 performs anything but excellently, nor do I have any reason to believe Euro-Spec 5w40 gasoline oils would perform any better in a gasoline car.
Interested in your thinking.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: gpshumway
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
API specifications only limit Phosphorous content in 20 and 30-weight oils. 40 and above, there are no limits. So RT6 can have 1200ppm P and still meet SM and SN specifications. That said, I do believe RT6 is probably the most over-recommended oil on this site. Too many people want to put it in gasoline engines because of its high Phos content. Yes, it is dual-rated, but its primary rating is CJ4, meaning it is formulated primarily for diesel engines.
You've said this quite a few times recently. Would you mind sharing a bit more of your reasoning/evidence? As I said in my previous post, ILSAC GF-5 formulations from Castrol, Mobil 1 and others have large concentrations of Magnesium, just like RT6, and they're obviously not intended for diesels. Is their something other than your distaste for magnesium and your discomfort with an oil marketed primarily to the HD diesel market?
Back on track, IMO this is the important part of the argument. 1200ppm phos may or may not be important, certainly there is anecdotal evidence against it being a big deal, as well as warranty evidence to indicate otherwise.
Regardless, the Mg chemistry, and how it's variants relates to solids formation, deposits, abrasives, etc all come into play. The Mg chemistries may differ so there is lots to consider... But if GF-5 oils are showing lots of Mg, it begs the question of why and how does it differ?
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
API specifications only limit Phosphorous content in 20 and 30-weight oils. 40 and above, there are no limits. So RT6 can have 1200ppm P and still meet SM and SN specifications. That said, I do believe RT6 is probably the most over-recommended oil on this site. Too many people want to put it in gasoline engines because of its high Phos content. Yes, it is dual-rated, but its primary rating is CJ4, meaning it is formulated primarily for diesel engines.
You've said this quite a few times recently. Would you mind sharing a bit more of your reasoning/evidence? As I said in my previous post, ILSAC GF-5 formulations from Castrol, Mobil 1 and others have large concentrations of Magnesium, just like RT6, and they're obviously not intended for diesels. Is their something other than your distaste for magnesium and your discomfort with an oil marketed primarily to the HD diesel market?
Back on track, IMO this is the important part of the argument. 1200ppm phos may or may not be important, certainly there is anecdotal evidence against it being a big deal, as well as warranty evidence to indicate otherwise.
Regardless, the Mg chemistry, and how it's variants relates to solids formation, deposits, abrasives, etc all come into play. The Mg chemistries may differ so there is lots to consider... But if GF-5 oils are showing lots of Mg, it begs the question of why and how does it differ?
Assuming the troll has left or has been evicted, I don't mind commenting again. There is much ado about nothing, really.
We sit and grouse about being "stuck" with very light viscosities because we're in North America and subject to CAFE. Many don't buy the argument that you absolutely must use one grade and only one grade all year, regardless of usage pattern. Yet, if something has somewhat elevated phosphorous content, we swallow the doom and gloom.
Generally speaking, following the owner's manual is the best piece of advice. In the old BMW in question with this email exchange with Shell, there is absolutely no problem using T6 or Delvac 1 or Delo, regardless of what the customer service people say. Any of these products will fit the viscosity and API service requirements of the engine in question. End of story. Worrying about catalytic converter damage on a 30 year old vehicle is silly. And, if the Europeans were as worried as the North Americans and Japanese are, they'd reduce phosphorous across the board through the ACEA specifications. They haven't.
Nonetheless, as OVERKILL pointed out, Doug Hillary has been using Delvac 1 in gassers for an extended period of time, and I'm doing the same thing. Mobil has no problem with that. Shell might be a little more picky about the CYA issue, but the lubes are dual rated. If Shell was that serious about them not being used in gasoline engines, they could easily yank the SM certification altogether.
That's not to say they should be used in every vehicle under the sun. But, we do see some new Korean vehicles (as we've seen in the PCMO section) that allow for a 5w-40 with an SM rating or higher. Note that it doesn't say SM or higher and must not be dual rated. I have seen prohibitions on dual rated oils, but not in those Korean examples.
We sit and grouse about being "stuck" with very light viscosities because we're in North America and subject to CAFE. Many don't buy the argument that you absolutely must use one grade and only one grade all year, regardless of usage pattern. Yet, if something has somewhat elevated phosphorous content, we swallow the doom and gloom.
Generally speaking, following the owner's manual is the best piece of advice. In the old BMW in question with this email exchange with Shell, there is absolutely no problem using T6 or Delvac 1 or Delo, regardless of what the customer service people say. Any of these products will fit the viscosity and API service requirements of the engine in question. End of story. Worrying about catalytic converter damage on a 30 year old vehicle is silly. And, if the Europeans were as worried as the North Americans and Japanese are, they'd reduce phosphorous across the board through the ACEA specifications. They haven't.
Nonetheless, as OVERKILL pointed out, Doug Hillary has been using Delvac 1 in gassers for an extended period of time, and I'm doing the same thing. Mobil has no problem with that. Shell might be a little more picky about the CYA issue, but the lubes are dual rated. If Shell was that serious about them not being used in gasoline engines, they could easily yank the SM certification altogether.
That's not to say they should be used in every vehicle under the sun. But, we do see some new Korean vehicles (as we've seen in the PCMO section) that allow for a 5w-40 with an SM rating or higher. Note that it doesn't say SM or higher and must not be dual rated. I have seen prohibitions on dual rated oils, but not in those Korean examples.
The other thing is that M1 0W-40 has plenty high P and Zn levels itself, according to Mobil. Well within the range of what T6 has.
As a T6 user when studying the chart of Mobil 1 options M1 0w-40 caught my attention. It seems that M1 0w-40 and Shell 5w-40 T6 are two that is very popular on one Polaris forum.
After we picked up the FIL old MF tractor then added an old JD backhoe we moved to T6 because it is super for both diesel and gas especially since we have both a big block Ford and Chevy engine and others with flat tappets.
For gas engines the moly High Mileage Mobil 1 options have my attention as well. In the two air/oil cooled Polaris engines we have we are currently running M1 10w-40 High Mileage because it specs more like a racing oil and is high temperature rated.
After we picked up the FIL old MF tractor then added an old JD backhoe we moved to T6 because it is super for both diesel and gas especially since we have both a big block Ford and Chevy engine and others with flat tappets.
For gas engines the moly High Mileage Mobil 1 options have my attention as well. In the two air/oil cooled Polaris engines we have we are currently running M1 10w-40 High Mileage because it specs more like a racing oil and is high temperature rated.
Originally Posted By: gpshumway
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
API specifications only limit Phosphorous content in 20 and 30-weight oils. 40 and above, there are no limits. So RT6 can have 1200ppm P and still meet SM and SN specifications. That said, I do believe RT6 is probably the most over-recommended oil on this site. Too many people want to put it in gasoline engines because of its high Phos content. Yes, it is dual-rated, but its primary rating is CJ4, meaning it is formulated primarily for diesel engines.
You've said this quite a few times recently. Would you mind sharing a bit more of your reasoning/evidence? As I said in my previous post, ILSAC GF-5 formulations from Castrol, Mobil 1 and others have large concentrations of Magnesium, just like RT6, and they're obviously not intended for diesels. Is their something other than your distaste for magnesium and your discomfort with an oil marketed primarily to the HD diesel market?
Here's a set of UOAs for a heavily tracked Nissan GTR, the latest is RT6 and the others are Redline. LINK It sure seems like RT6 holds up well in this most demanding application. Not bad for $5/qt compared to Redline at twice the price. And that's why it gets recommended so often in the Subaru and older BMW communities. Not because we think it's the hottest thing since sunburn, but because it's a great oil at a great price and readily available.
Sure, you could buy Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w40 or M1 ESP Formula M 5w40 and they'd be "more correct" for a gasoline application, but those are also mixed-fleet oils and they're hard to find and expensive. I've personally never seen any evidence that RT6 performs anything but excellently, nor do I have any reason to believe Euro-Spec 5w40 gasoline oils would perform any better in a gasoline car.
Interested in your thinking.
My concern with Magnesium-based detergents used in diesel-rated oils is that OVER TIME, if the engine is consuming oil through the combustion chambers, hard deposits will form due to burn-off of the detergent compounds. These hard deposits will make the engine prone to preignition when they get hot under continued high-boost operation. So there are some "if's" in there; if your engine is using oil and if you do a lot of track days, you may eventually have a problem with preignition and consequently burned pistons. So you want to save $5/quart on your oil changes and risk damaging an engine that will take $25k to replace? What price peace of mind?
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
API specifications only limit Phosphorous content in 20 and 30-weight oils. 40 and above, there are no limits. So RT6 can have 1200ppm P and still meet SM and SN specifications. That said, I do believe RT6 is probably the most over-recommended oil on this site. Too many people want to put it in gasoline engines because of its high Phos content. Yes, it is dual-rated, but its primary rating is CJ4, meaning it is formulated primarily for diesel engines.
You've said this quite a few times recently. Would you mind sharing a bit more of your reasoning/evidence? As I said in my previous post, ILSAC GF-5 formulations from Castrol, Mobil 1 and others have large concentrations of Magnesium, just like RT6, and they're obviously not intended for diesels. Is their something other than your distaste for magnesium and your discomfort with an oil marketed primarily to the HD diesel market?
Here's a set of UOAs for a heavily tracked Nissan GTR, the latest is RT6 and the others are Redline. LINK It sure seems like RT6 holds up well in this most demanding application. Not bad for $5/qt compared to Redline at twice the price. And that's why it gets recommended so often in the Subaru and older BMW communities. Not because we think it's the hottest thing since sunburn, but because it's a great oil at a great price and readily available.
Sure, you could buy Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w40 or M1 ESP Formula M 5w40 and they'd be "more correct" for a gasoline application, but those are also mixed-fleet oils and they're hard to find and expensive. I've personally never seen any evidence that RT6 performs anything but excellently, nor do I have any reason to believe Euro-Spec 5w40 gasoline oils would perform any better in a gasoline car.
Interested in your thinking.
My concern with Magnesium-based detergents used in diesel-rated oils is that OVER TIME, if the engine is consuming oil through the combustion chambers, hard deposits will form due to burn-off of the detergent compounds. These hard deposits will make the engine prone to preignition when they get hot under continued high-boost operation. So there are some "if's" in there; if your engine is using oil and if you do a lot of track days, you may eventually have a problem with preignition and consequently burned pistons. So you want to save $5/quart on your oil changes and risk damaging an engine that will take $25k to replace? What price peace of mind?
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
My concern with Magnesium-based detergents used in diesel-rated oils is that OVER TIME, if the engine is consuming oil through the combustion chambers, hard deposits will form due to burn-off of the detergent compounds. These hard deposits will make the engine prone to preignition when they get hot under continued high-boost operation. So there are some "if's" in there; if your engine is using oil and if you do a lot of track days, you may eventually have a problem with preignition and consequently burned pistons. So you want to save $5/quart on your oil changes and risk damaging an engine that will take $25k to replace? What price peace of mind?
There seem to be quite a few ifs in there. What I hear you saying is that you think some diesel oils have magnesium compounds which may cause deposits in gasoline engines. You don't have any experience or evidence that RT6 does, you just believe it's more likely to than 5w40 oils marketed more directly for gasoline applications. RT6 could after all be using the same Infineum made magnesium detergent/dispersant additives used in Mobil 1's ILSAC products.
Plenty of tracked engines produce deposits no matter what oil you use. You could just as easily be afraid of Redline oils producing deposits in turbochargers after seeing their poor showing in Amsoil's TEOST 33C testing.
For many the pricing and availability of RT6 outweighs the heavily caveated potential downsides. Since there are no scientific studies which would prove or disprove your fears, we must all make our choices without perfect information. You are apparently very risk averse, but I don't think that makes those who are slightly less risk averse "wrong". Others would never risk the potential sludge formation which you risk by doing long OCIs interspersed with track use.
My concern with Magnesium-based detergents used in diesel-rated oils is that OVER TIME, if the engine is consuming oil through the combustion chambers, hard deposits will form due to burn-off of the detergent compounds. These hard deposits will make the engine prone to preignition when they get hot under continued high-boost operation. So there are some "if's" in there; if your engine is using oil and if you do a lot of track days, you may eventually have a problem with preignition and consequently burned pistons. So you want to save $5/quart on your oil changes and risk damaging an engine that will take $25k to replace? What price peace of mind?
There seem to be quite a few ifs in there. What I hear you saying is that you think some diesel oils have magnesium compounds which may cause deposits in gasoline engines. You don't have any experience or evidence that RT6 does, you just believe it's more likely to than 5w40 oils marketed more directly for gasoline applications. RT6 could after all be using the same Infineum made magnesium detergent/dispersant additives used in Mobil 1's ILSAC products.
Plenty of tracked engines produce deposits no matter what oil you use. You could just as easily be afraid of Redline oils producing deposits in turbochargers after seeing their poor showing in Amsoil's TEOST 33C testing.
For many the pricing and availability of RT6 outweighs the heavily caveated potential downsides. Since there are no scientific studies which would prove or disprove your fears, we must all make our choices without perfect information. You are apparently very risk averse, but I don't think that makes those who are slightly less risk averse "wrong". Others would never risk the potential sludge formation which you risk by doing long OCIs interspersed with track use.
Originally Posted By: gpshumway
There seem to be quite a few ifs in there. What I hear you saying is that you think some diesel oils have magnesium compounds which may cause deposits in gasoline engines. You don't have any experience or evidence that RT6 does, you just believe it's more likely to than 5w40 oils marketed more directly for gasoline applications. RT6 could after all be using the same Infineum made magnesium detergent/dispersant additives used in Mobil 1's ILSAC products.
I have been contemplating using few of my favorite the diesel rated 5w-40 grades in gasoline vehicles.... but....
Is there any solid evidence that Infineum made magnesium detergent/dispersant additives will not cause hard deposits over time in gasoline (and diesel) engines ?
There seem to be quite a few ifs in there. What I hear you saying is that you think some diesel oils have magnesium compounds which may cause deposits in gasoline engines. You don't have any experience or evidence that RT6 does, you just believe it's more likely to than 5w40 oils marketed more directly for gasoline applications. RT6 could after all be using the same Infineum made magnesium detergent/dispersant additives used in Mobil 1's ILSAC products.
I have been contemplating using few of my favorite the diesel rated 5w-40 grades in gasoline vehicles.... but....
Is there any solid evidence that Infineum made magnesium detergent/dispersant additives will not cause hard deposits over time in gasoline (and diesel) engines ?
Originally Posted By: gpshumway
There seem to be quite a few ifs in there. What I hear you saying is that you think some diesel oils have magnesium compounds which may cause deposits in gasoline engines. You don't have any experience or evidence that RT6 does, you just believe it's more likely to than 5w40 oils marketed more directly for gasoline applications. RT6 could after all be using the same Infineum made magnesium detergent/dispersant additives used in Mobil 1's ILSAC products.
Plenty of tracked engines produce deposits no matter what oil you use. You could just as easily be afraid of Redline oils producing deposits in turbochargers after seeing their poor showing in Amsoil's TEOST 33C testing.
For many the pricing and availability of RT6 outweighs the heavily caveated potential downsides. Since there are no scientific studies which would prove or disprove your fears, we must all make our choices without perfect information. You are apparently very risk averse, but I don't think that makes those who are slightly less risk averse "wrong". Others would never risk the potential sludge formation which you risk by doing long OCIs interspersed with track use.
Yes, I made the "if's" clear in my post.
Your knowledge of my experience is somewhat lacking. I have done oil analyses on RT6 for my Dodge pickup and know for a fact that it has Magnesium in it. I have used RT6 for over 2 years in my Dodge on 24k-mile OCI's (2 of them so far), and think it's a wonderful oil in that application. I have the engine pumped up to 38 psi boost and making 430 HP at the wheels.
Look at a VOA of RT6: 830 ppm Calcium, 1190 ppm Magnesium.
Look at a VOA of M1 0w40; 3000 ppm Calcium, 20 ppm Magnesium.
VOA of Valvoline VR1: 2000 ppm Calcium, no Magnesium.
VOA of PU 0w40 SRT: 2500 Calcium, 9 Magnesium
VOA of Joe Gibbs LS30: 2430 Ca, 150 Mg
VOA of Motul 300V 0w40: 2400 Ca, 9 Mg
VOA of M1 Racing 0w30: 3150 Ca, 9 Mg
VOA of AMSoil Z-Rod 10w30: 2750 Ca, 11 Mg
VOA of PUE 5w40: 2450 Ca, 14 Mg
VOA of AMSoil Racing 15w50: 1960 Ca, 6 Mg
See a pattern? Oils for high-performance gasoline applications don't contain much Magnesium.
Your are running your highly-stressed turbocharged gasoline engine in an environment that is 80-90% as strenuous as racing and want to run an oil that is not optimized for the application. If you're worried about cost, I would recommend you use M1 0w40 or PUE 5w40.
There seem to be quite a few ifs in there. What I hear you saying is that you think some diesel oils have magnesium compounds which may cause deposits in gasoline engines. You don't have any experience or evidence that RT6 does, you just believe it's more likely to than 5w40 oils marketed more directly for gasoline applications. RT6 could after all be using the same Infineum made magnesium detergent/dispersant additives used in Mobil 1's ILSAC products.
Plenty of tracked engines produce deposits no matter what oil you use. You could just as easily be afraid of Redline oils producing deposits in turbochargers after seeing their poor showing in Amsoil's TEOST 33C testing.
For many the pricing and availability of RT6 outweighs the heavily caveated potential downsides. Since there are no scientific studies which would prove or disprove your fears, we must all make our choices without perfect information. You are apparently very risk averse, but I don't think that makes those who are slightly less risk averse "wrong". Others would never risk the potential sludge formation which you risk by doing long OCIs interspersed with track use.
Yes, I made the "if's" clear in my post.
Your knowledge of my experience is somewhat lacking. I have done oil analyses on RT6 for my Dodge pickup and know for a fact that it has Magnesium in it. I have used RT6 for over 2 years in my Dodge on 24k-mile OCI's (2 of them so far), and think it's a wonderful oil in that application. I have the engine pumped up to 38 psi boost and making 430 HP at the wheels.
Look at a VOA of RT6: 830 ppm Calcium, 1190 ppm Magnesium.
Look at a VOA of M1 0w40; 3000 ppm Calcium, 20 ppm Magnesium.
VOA of Valvoline VR1: 2000 ppm Calcium, no Magnesium.
VOA of PU 0w40 SRT: 2500 Calcium, 9 Magnesium
VOA of Joe Gibbs LS30: 2430 Ca, 150 Mg
VOA of Motul 300V 0w40: 2400 Ca, 9 Mg
VOA of M1 Racing 0w30: 3150 Ca, 9 Mg
VOA of AMSoil Z-Rod 10w30: 2750 Ca, 11 Mg
VOA of PUE 5w40: 2450 Ca, 14 Mg
VOA of AMSoil Racing 15w50: 1960 Ca, 6 Mg
See a pattern? Oils for high-performance gasoline applications don't contain much Magnesium.
Your are running your highly-stressed turbocharged gasoline engine in an environment that is 80-90% as strenuous as racing and want to run an oil that is not optimized for the application. If you're worried about cost, I would recommend you use M1 0w40 or PUE 5w40.
Originally Posted By: MrMechanic
i have a 2004 ford explorer 4.0. been looking for a synthetic 5w-40 and saw shell has it at a great price. but it is diesel oil. will this oil harm my vehicle in any way? ex. cats, emissions, plug fouling etc. it is a "SM" rated oil and i use "SM" rated oil so is it safe of not. i know there is a weight difference but thats not my concern.
I use it in both gas and diesel engines.
i have a 2004 ford explorer 4.0. been looking for a synthetic 5w-40 and saw shell has it at a great price. but it is diesel oil. will this oil harm my vehicle in any way? ex. cats, emissions, plug fouling etc. it is a "SM" rated oil and i use "SM" rated oil so is it safe of not. i know there is a weight difference but thats not my concern.
I use it in both gas and diesel engines.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
[
See a pattern? Oils for high-performance gasoline applications don't contain much Magnesium.
Question/issue here (not an attack on your claims) is that if there are other metallic adds used, like Calcium, whats to say that they wont create similar deposits to Mg?
[
See a pattern? Oils for high-performance gasoline applications don't contain much Magnesium.
Question/issue here (not an attack on your claims) is that if there are other metallic adds used, like Calcium, whats to say that they wont create similar deposits to Mg?
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