Wow getting an early start to the Rotella bashing!
Rotella T6 5w-40 in a Gas engine
- Thread starter MrMechanic
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Garak
You're not speaking to a bunch of people who know nothing about oil.
1) Are you talking about those who think just because it's good in trucks that it's also OK in cars with cats? Those people??
2) Or did you mean those who say it's OK even though the maker of the oil says it's not recommended? Those people?
3) Or did you mean those who think they know an oil better than the companys tech dept that makes it? Those people?
Originally Posted By: Garak
Secondly, you seem to want to bring up politics in your posts. That's contrary to the rules. If you wish to continue participating here, refrain from the political jibberish or someone with a blue username will ensure that you do by giving you a vacation.
Bring it on.......
Was just trying to draw an analogy between politics and how people process information, that's all.
Oh..and if the guy with the "blue username" read what I posted I think he would process those facts and arrive at the same conclusion I did.....
You're not speaking to a bunch of people who know nothing about oil.
1) Are you talking about those who think just because it's good in trucks that it's also OK in cars with cats? Those people??
2) Or did you mean those who say it's OK even though the maker of the oil says it's not recommended? Those people?
3) Or did you mean those who think they know an oil better than the companys tech dept that makes it? Those people?
Originally Posted By: Garak
Secondly, you seem to want to bring up politics in your posts. That's contrary to the rules. If you wish to continue participating here, refrain from the political jibberish or someone with a blue username will ensure that you do by giving you a vacation.
Bring it on.......
Was just trying to draw an analogy between politics and how people process information, that's all.
Oh..and if the guy with the "blue username" read what I posted I think he would process those facts and arrive at the same conclusion I did.....
I feel like we're being trolled.....
"The guy with the blue username".... really?????
"The guy with the blue username".... really?????
Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
1) Are you talking about those who think just because it's good in trucks that it's also OK in cars with cats? Those people??
Yes, those people, many of whom used SJ and earlier oils with catalytic converters.
Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
2) Or did you mean those who say it's OK even though the maker of the oil says it's not recommended? Those people?
Yes, those people, for many of whom it is actually a recommended grade, including your BMW.
Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
3) Or did you mean those who think they know an oil better than the companys tech dept that makes it? Those people?
And, yes, those people, too, considering the average user here knows more about oil than the "tech" people at the oil company who makes it. "Tech" people who get a paycheque from Shell yet have never changed oil in their lives, let alone taken a chemistry class, much less obtained a degree in engineering, don't get to tell me what oil to use.
Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
Oh..and if the guy with the "blue username" read what I posted I think he would process those facts and arrive at the same conclusion I did.....
I wish you well with that.
1) Are you talking about those who think just because it's good in trucks that it's also OK in cars with cats? Those people??
Yes, those people, many of whom used SJ and earlier oils with catalytic converters.
Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
2) Or did you mean those who say it's OK even though the maker of the oil says it's not recommended? Those people?
Yes, those people, for many of whom it is actually a recommended grade, including your BMW.
Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
3) Or did you mean those who think they know an oil better than the companys tech dept that makes it? Those people?
And, yes, those people, too, considering the average user here knows more about oil than the "tech" people at the oil company who makes it. "Tech" people who get a paycheque from Shell yet have never changed oil in their lives, let alone taken a chemistry class, much less obtained a degree in engineering, don't get to tell me what oil to use.
Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
Oh..and if the guy with the "blue username" read what I posted I think he would process those facts and arrive at the same conclusion I did.....
I wish you well with that.
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
I feel like we're being trolled.....
We're absolutely being trolled. Someone either has an ax to grind with SOPUS or is deathly afraid of phosphorous.
I feel like we're being trolled.....
We're absolutely being trolled. Someone either has an ax to grind with SOPUS or is deathly afraid of phosphorous.
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
I feel like we're being trolled.....
"The guy with the blue username".... really?????
Yes..."the blue guy" is their "go to guy" when they are presented with facts they don't like.... so they retaliate and threaten us with their big guns, also known as "the blue guy"........shivering I am.......
I feel like we're being trolled.....
"The guy with the blue username".... really?????
Yes..."the blue guy" is their "go to guy" when they are presented with facts they don't like.... so they retaliate and threaten us with their big guns, also known as "the blue guy"........shivering I am.......
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
I feel like we're being trolled.....
"The guy with the blue username".... really?????
I think that is being supported post after post.
Maybe this one's emotional needs will be met soon or will find another site to abuse.
There are few gas engines in passenger cars if ANY that spec a 40 weight motor oil so TT's point is mute. One must not get the old and new T6 formulas confused.
Todays T6 has a reduced ash, phosphorus and sulfur content.
Read about the lower sulfur, phosphorus and ash of T6
We use it in the old gas stuff with flat tappets and one 22 year old vehicle does have a CAT.
If one is not comfortable is a motor oil for any real or made up reason I strongly recommend to NOT use it.
I feel like we're being trolled.....
"The guy with the blue username".... really?????
I think that is being supported post after post.
Maybe this one's emotional needs will be met soon or will find another site to abuse.
There are few gas engines in passenger cars if ANY that spec a 40 weight motor oil so TT's point is mute. One must not get the old and new T6 formulas confused.
Todays T6 has a reduced ash, phosphorus and sulfur content.
Read about the lower sulfur, phosphorus and ash of T6
We use it in the old gas stuff with flat tappets and one 22 year old vehicle does have a CAT.
If one is not comfortable is a motor oil for any real or made up reason I strongly recommend to NOT use it.
Haha, or a guy that wants to be Big Man on Campus with super-secret tech information that only he has been able to obtain from the manufacturer, and wishes to look important here. Disregarding the whole fact of SM certification of course.
Or maybe... well, nevermind that. I'll stick with my first hypothesis.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
I feel like we're being trolled.....
We're absolutely being trolled. Someone either has an ax to grind with SOPUS or is deathly afraid of phosphorous.
Or maybe... well, nevermind that. I'll stick with my first hypothesis.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: sdude2k2000
I feel like we're being trolled.....
We're absolutely being trolled. Someone either has an ax to grind with SOPUS or is deathly afraid of phosphorous.
kschachn said:
Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
I will gladly send you my email where I asked the question to Rotella along with their response. There is no "secret information" here. My guess is that you would then still claim I am trying to "look important" even though it's just factual information from the oils manufacturer. So, please post your e-mail here, then I will send these same emails to you and then please be man enough to tell others what these emails say and that you were wrong in your assertion of me...... Deal?
Oh...by the way, it is this same oil manufacturer who states in this email that the low Phosphorous content is driven by ILSEC requirements.
So...post you email and I'll send you them.
I don't want to be pedantic here, but it's ILSAC, not ILSEC. And as I said earlier, if your car specifies ILSAC GF-3 or earlier, RT6 has zinc and phosphorous levels consistent with the requirements for your car. These requirements endured long after the advent of GF-4. For instance my 2007 Subaru WRX specifies 10w40 conforming to API SL for severe duty. NO ILSAC requirement. RT6 comforming to API SM certainly meets the requirements for my car, which of course has a catcon.
Did you specify a year in your e-mail to shell? Did you tell them what the OM requirements were, specifically? Does your car have similar requirements to my WRX? As someone said earlier, it's shocking how little the tech-line folks know. These are not people with a technical background they're CS reps with a computer library of canned responses.
I will gladly send you my email where I asked the question to Rotella along with their response. There is no "secret information" here. My guess is that you would then still claim I am trying to "look important" even though it's just factual information from the oils manufacturer. So, please post your e-mail here, then I will send these same emails to you and then please be man enough to tell others what these emails say and that you were wrong in your assertion of me...... Deal?
Oh...by the way, it is this same oil manufacturer who states in this email that the low Phosphorous content is driven by ILSEC requirements.
So...post you email and I'll send you them.
I don't want to be pedantic here, but it's ILSAC, not ILSEC. And as I said earlier, if your car specifies ILSAC GF-3 or earlier, RT6 has zinc and phosphorous levels consistent with the requirements for your car. These requirements endured long after the advent of GF-4. For instance my 2007 Subaru WRX specifies 10w40 conforming to API SL for severe duty. NO ILSAC requirement. RT6 comforming to API SM certainly meets the requirements for my car, which of course has a catcon.
Did you specify a year in your e-mail to shell? Did you tell them what the OM requirements were, specifically? Does your car have similar requirements to my WRX? As someone said earlier, it's shocking how little the tech-line folks know. These are not people with a technical background they're CS reps with a computer library of canned responses.
API specifications only limit Phosphorous content in 20 and 30-weight oils. 40 and above, there are no limits. So RT6 can have 1200ppm P and still meet SM and SN specifications. That said, I do believe RT6 is probably the most over-recommended oil on this site. Too many people want to put it in gasoline engines because of its high Phos content. Yes, it is dual-rated, but its primary rating is CJ4, meaning it is formulated primarily for diesel engines.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Haha, or a guy that wants to be Big Man on Campus with super-secret tech information that only he has been able to obtain from the manufacturer, and wishes to look important here. Disregarding the whole fact of SM certification of course.
Of course, dozens of posters here have emailed and called Shell and every other oil company and gotten advice (oops, I mean canned, stock answers), too.
The real question TrackerTracker should be asking himself and Shell is why they are discussing ILSAC rated oils in BMWs. BMW ditched ILSAC type grades a long time ago. Rotella is a far better choice (and fulfills his manual requirements) much better than an ILSAC rated 0w-20, 5w-20, 5w-30, or 10w-30 in any event (ambient temperatures considered of course).
Haha, or a guy that wants to be Big Man on Campus with super-secret tech information that only he has been able to obtain from the manufacturer, and wishes to look important here. Disregarding the whole fact of SM certification of course.
Of course, dozens of posters here have emailed and called Shell and every other oil company and gotten advice (oops, I mean canned, stock answers), too.
The real question TrackerTracker should be asking himself and Shell is why they are discussing ILSAC rated oils in BMWs. BMW ditched ILSAC type grades a long time ago. Rotella is a far better choice (and fulfills his manual requirements) much better than an ILSAC rated 0w-20, 5w-20, 5w-30, or 10w-30 in any event (ambient temperatures considered of course).
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Haha, or a guy that wants to be Big Man on Campus with super-secret tech information that only he has been able to obtain from the manufacturer, and wishes to look important here. Disregarding the whole fact of SM certification of course.
Of course, dozens of posters here have emailed and called Shell and every other oil company and gotten advice (oops, I mean canned, stock answers), too.
The real question TrackerTracker should be asking himself and Shell is why they are discussing ILSAC rated oils in BMWs. BMW ditched ILSAC type grades a long time ago. Rotella is a far better choice (and fulfills his manual requirements) much better than an ILSAC rated 0w-20, 5w-20, 5w-30, or 10w-30 in any event (ambient temperatures considered of course).
Hi,
I never told Rotella my make, model or year of car precisely because I wanted their advice to be unbiased. Their answer was that NO Rotella oils are recommended for gas cars with cat converters. I offer you the same thing I offered the other guy: post your email and I will forward their responses to you because obviously you think Rotella is discussing ILSAC and BMW and nowhere in the e-mail was BMW mentioned...not by me or them.
So...post your email because you are confused as to what took place and was said or, do "facts" get in the way of your preconceived ideas?
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Haha, or a guy that wants to be Big Man on Campus with super-secret tech information that only he has been able to obtain from the manufacturer, and wishes to look important here. Disregarding the whole fact of SM certification of course.
Of course, dozens of posters here have emailed and called Shell and every other oil company and gotten advice (oops, I mean canned, stock answers), too.
The real question TrackerTracker should be asking himself and Shell is why they are discussing ILSAC rated oils in BMWs. BMW ditched ILSAC type grades a long time ago. Rotella is a far better choice (and fulfills his manual requirements) much better than an ILSAC rated 0w-20, 5w-20, 5w-30, or 10w-30 in any event (ambient temperatures considered of course).
Hi,
I never told Rotella my make, model or year of car precisely because I wanted their advice to be unbiased. Their answer was that NO Rotella oils are recommended for gas cars with cat converters. I offer you the same thing I offered the other guy: post your email and I will forward their responses to you because obviously you think Rotella is discussing ILSAC and BMW and nowhere in the e-mail was BMW mentioned...not by me or them.
So...post your email because you are confused as to what took place and was said or, do "facts" get in the way of your preconceived ideas?
I'm well aware of what Shell told you and I don't dispute that. Why are you insisting upon "proving" something to us that we already knew Shell said. They've been saying the same thing for a long time, long before you came to this forum.
And asking an oil company for advice on an oil choice without specifying make, model, and year isn't going to get you unbiased advice. It's going to get you incomplete advice at best - dangerous advice at worst.
Please enlighten me. What are my preconceived ideas? Scratch that. I'm not interested in continuing an idiotic discussion with someone who obviously has had less driving time than I've had wrench time.
And asking an oil company for advice on an oil choice without specifying make, model, and year isn't going to get you unbiased advice. It's going to get you incomplete advice at best - dangerous advice at worst.
Please enlighten me. What are my preconceived ideas? Scratch that. I'm not interested in continuing an idiotic discussion with someone who obviously has had less driving time than I've had wrench time.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Garak
I'm well aware of what Shell told you and I don't dispute that. Why are you insisting upon "proving" something to us that we already knew Shell said. They've been saying the same thing for a long time, long before you came to this forum.
And asking an oil company for advice on an oil choice without specifying make, model, and year isn't going to get you unbiased advice. It's going to get you incomplete advice at best - dangerous advice at worst.
Please enlighten me. What are my preconceived ideas? Scratch that. I'm not interested in continuing an idiotic discussion with someone who obviously has had less driving time than I've had wrench time.
And lest we forget Doug Hillary's extensive experience with Delvac 1 5w-40, some of it with Porsche engines and likely sanctioned by Porsche AND Exxon-Mobil.
I'm well aware of what Shell told you and I don't dispute that. Why are you insisting upon "proving" something to us that we already knew Shell said. They've been saying the same thing for a long time, long before you came to this forum.
And asking an oil company for advice on an oil choice without specifying make, model, and year isn't going to get you unbiased advice. It's going to get you incomplete advice at best - dangerous advice at worst.
Please enlighten me. What are my preconceived ideas? Scratch that. I'm not interested in continuing an idiotic discussion with someone who obviously has had less driving time than I've had wrench time.
And lest we forget Doug Hillary's extensive experience with Delvac 1 5w-40, some of it with Porsche engines and likely sanctioned by Porsche AND Exxon-Mobil.
Here, in your own words, are you preconceived ideas. You said the following:
"The real question TrackerTracker should be asking himself and Shell is why they are discussing ILSAC rated oils in BMWs."
Now....for the record...I told you once so I will say it again, neither I nor Rotella mentioned BMW and ILSAC, in fact, I never told Rotella tech support anything about my car....never. All I said was it was a gasoline car. This gave them complete freedom to state compatibility with only certain cars or to ask me what specific car I had but that didn't matter because their answer was global in nature saying "NO Rotella oils are recommended for use in gas cars with cats". Why do you keep ignoring this and claiming that "The real question TrackerTracker should be asking himself and Shell is why they are discussing ILSAC rated oils in BMWs."
You claim a lot of "wrench time" yet you refuse to process what I told them and what their response was. So...why do keep claiming Rotella mentioned BMW and ISLAC when that's not true?
And your answer is what?????
"The real question TrackerTracker should be asking himself and Shell is why they are discussing ILSAC rated oils in BMWs."
Now....for the record...I told you once so I will say it again, neither I nor Rotella mentioned BMW and ILSAC, in fact, I never told Rotella tech support anything about my car....never. All I said was it was a gasoline car. This gave them complete freedom to state compatibility with only certain cars or to ask me what specific car I had but that didn't matter because their answer was global in nature saying "NO Rotella oils are recommended for use in gas cars with cats". Why do you keep ignoring this and claiming that "The real question TrackerTracker should be asking himself and Shell is why they are discussing ILSAC rated oils in BMWs."
You claim a lot of "wrench time" yet you refuse to process what I told them and what their response was. So...why do keep claiming Rotella mentioned BMW and ISLAC when that's not true?
And your answer is what?????
Email? What email? I have email?
If my manual specs SM, and I use Rotella SM oil, what do I need an email for? That's the part I don't get.
Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
I never told Rotella my make, model or year of car precisely because I wanted their advice to be unbiased. Their answer was that NO Rotella oils are recommended for gas cars with cat converters. I offer you the same thing I offered the other guy: post your email and I will forward their responses to you because obviously you think Rotella is discussing ILSAC and BMW and nowhere in the e-mail was BMW mentioned...not by me or them.
So...post your email because you are confused as to what took place and was said or, do "facts" get in the way of your preconceived ideas?
If my manual specs SM, and I use Rotella SM oil, what do I need an email for? That's the part I don't get.
Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
I never told Rotella my make, model or year of car precisely because I wanted their advice to be unbiased. Their answer was that NO Rotella oils are recommended for gas cars with cat converters. I offer you the same thing I offered the other guy: post your email and I will forward their responses to you because obviously you think Rotella is discussing ILSAC and BMW and nowhere in the e-mail was BMW mentioned...not by me or them.
So...post your email because you are confused as to what took place and was said or, do "facts" get in the way of your preconceived ideas?
Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
Originally Posted By: volk06
Its only harmful for cats if your car BURNS oil.
If not, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Plus if you know how little those people on the tech line know, you wouldn't believe anything they say. Also, recommended does not mean you can't use it. Its SM rated, use it with confidence. SM is a gasoline engine specification and it meets those requirements so don't over think this issue.
SM reduced the P levels to 800 max. Most of those limits don't apply to 40w oils. That's why Defy 10w40 can be SN while all the other weights are SL.
I believe that it's the ILSAC requirements that require Phosphorous levels to be 800 ppm or lower (to extend cat life), not the SM requirements and Rotella does not meet the ILSEC requirement because their P levels are about 1100 ppm Phosphorous. I have all this in their email to me. So the quandary is this: what to do when the manufacturer themselves says NONE of their oils are recommended for use in gas engines with cat converters. NONE!
I do agree with you on the burning issue and I posted it myself about an hour ago: you might be safe if you don't burn oil because that's the main mechanism to get Phosphorous into the cat converter and if you do burn oil, even having a low P level oil (800 ppm) might not even save your cat converter due to oil contamination in general.
That said, I too have a dilemma: my BMW I bought used, came with (insert drum roll) Rotella T6 oil so I too have to decide what to do.......
Has it been in there long enough to have already killed the cat in which case I just continue using it or do I replace it with something better to preserve the cat? Before I can decide I would need to know what happens when a cat dies: does it plug up and need replacing at $1,000 a pop or does it just cease to produce clean air yet doesn't interfere with car operation? Any thoughts on this or the above post in general??
It applies to SM spec, not just ISLAC. Heres a good article that sums it up:
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/images/PENR0138_Penrite_Zinc Tech Bulletin.pdf
Did you see the part where 40w oil are not included in these requirements? So a 40w with higher levels of P and ZDDP can be SM/SN with higher levels than 20/30w oils. If an engine calls for a 40w oil and SM spec, there is not problem.
You're making a mountain out of an ant hill....
Originally Posted By: volk06
Its only harmful for cats if your car BURNS oil.
If not, you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Plus if you know how little those people on the tech line know, you wouldn't believe anything they say. Also, recommended does not mean you can't use it. Its SM rated, use it with confidence. SM is a gasoline engine specification and it meets those requirements so don't over think this issue.
SM reduced the P levels to 800 max. Most of those limits don't apply to 40w oils. That's why Defy 10w40 can be SN while all the other weights are SL.
I believe that it's the ILSAC requirements that require Phosphorous levels to be 800 ppm or lower (to extend cat life), not the SM requirements and Rotella does not meet the ILSEC requirement because their P levels are about 1100 ppm Phosphorous. I have all this in their email to me. So the quandary is this: what to do when the manufacturer themselves says NONE of their oils are recommended for use in gas engines with cat converters. NONE!
I do agree with you on the burning issue and I posted it myself about an hour ago: you might be safe if you don't burn oil because that's the main mechanism to get Phosphorous into the cat converter and if you do burn oil, even having a low P level oil (800 ppm) might not even save your cat converter due to oil contamination in general.
That said, I too have a dilemma: my BMW I bought used, came with (insert drum roll) Rotella T6 oil so I too have to decide what to do.......
It applies to SM spec, not just ISLAC. Heres a good article that sums it up:
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/images/PENR0138_Penrite_Zinc Tech Bulletin.pdf
Did you see the part where 40w oil are not included in these requirements? So a 40w with higher levels of P and ZDDP can be SM/SN with higher levels than 20/30w oils. If an engine calls for a 40w oil and SM spec, there is not problem.
You're making a mountain out of an ant hill....
Do you even read what you post??? You posted the following about me earlier:
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Haha, or a guy that wants to be Big Man on Campus with super-secret tech information that only he has been able to obtain from the manufacturer, and wishes to look important here. Disregarding the whole fact of SM certification of course.
Or maybe... well, nevermind that. I'll stick with my first hypothesis.
Kschachn...do you even read your own posts????
My comment to you is that if you provide me with your e-mail address I will forward Rotellas responses to you. Once you see these you will no longer be able to claim that I have "super-secret tech information" as I am willing to share it with anyone. Rather than see what they sent me however, you continue to say I want to be BMOC because I have such information. I guess your refusal to give me an e-mail address to send them to you speaks volumes about your real motives: you ignore facts so that you can continue to name call.........
Also, Rotella knows their oil is SM rated but they still say not recommended in gas engines. You got a problem with that then tell Rotella because I'm tired of hearing you [censored], ignore facts and make unfounded accusations.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Haha, or a guy that wants to be Big Man on Campus with super-secret tech information that only he has been able to obtain from the manufacturer, and wishes to look important here. Disregarding the whole fact of SM certification of course.
Or maybe... well, nevermind that. I'll stick with my first hypothesis.
Kschachn...do you even read your own posts????
My comment to you is that if you provide me with your e-mail address I will forward Rotellas responses to you. Once you see these you will no longer be able to claim that I have "super-secret tech information" as I am willing to share it with anyone. Rather than see what they sent me however, you continue to say I want to be BMOC because I have such information. I guess your refusal to give me an e-mail address to send them to you speaks volumes about your real motives: you ignore facts so that you can continue to name call.........
Also, Rotella knows their oil is SM rated but they still say not recommended in gas engines. You got a problem with that then tell Rotella because I'm tired of hearing you [censored], ignore facts and make unfounded accusations.
Last edited by a moderator:
TrackerTracker did not get to see too much of you and was hoping you had some useful info to impart. The B word has no place in addressing a stranger so by by.
- Status
Similar threads
- Question