AMSOIL AND MAXIMA ULTRA UOA COMPARO

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DockingPilot

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*The bike is a 2012 Suzuki DR 650 single, shared gearbox/engine.
On the left colum is Maxima Ultra 5w50 Triple Ester.
On the right colum was may last change out with Amsoil 10w40
The Maxima has 1,500 miles on it, the Amsoil has 1,000 as indicated.

Regarding the comment on the copper. The DR has 2 timing inspection covers that are prone to seizing. So at every oil change I remove the plugs and coat the threads in copper based anti-seize compound. I am hoping that this is what Blackstone is picking up, but I cannot be sure.

I invite the experts in oil alchemy to comment on my 2 UOA's and help break it down for me as I'm not really sure what oil my bike is liking more, the Amsoil or the Maxima. So please fellas, feel free to comment and opine
DR%20AMSOIL%20VS%20MAXIMA-XL.jpg
 
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apples and oranges comparison here.

50% more miles on the maxima test.

and its hard to say how much scatter is in the maxima test.
the lead,nickle,manganese,silver,titanium,potassium,barium really question the accuracy.

so lets look at the normal wear metals:
aluminum - same. even with 50% more miles.
iron - 25% more on 50% more miles
copper - 146% more on 50% more miles.

silicon is up 140% on 50% more miles but was the airfilter done the same for both? impossible to do on oiled foam. 12 is not bad at all.

its obvious something copper really was roughed up.
but is it because the maxima didnt protect as well or would have it anyway? alum and iron show up that it was doing a very good job on those parts. i am thinking a bushing just wore more (clutch basket sleeve bushing or similar)
the maxima has a higher susvis at the end on more 50% more miles. still not a 50wt though. but the amsoil was even farther off the mark.

i would like to see SRT 15w40 run for either 1000 or 1500 for a comparison. i dont think either the amsoil nor maxima were bad, but i think it may be possible to improve (either uoa or wallet).

btw, was the oil filter changed with each?
 
Thanks Steve,
Yes, new oil filters with both drains.
Air filter however was not, but the bike in that timeframe was mostly onroad and not subjected to dusty conditions and it was fairly clean. I also grease the air filter rim to seal the intake as best as possible.
The reason I went 500 more miles was because the Maxima is an Ester of course, so I wanted to see how it would stack with 50% more miles to the Amsoil

I used copper based hi heat anti seize compound on the 2 timing inspection plugs in the stator side case. I coat the threads of these plugs because this engine is prone to seizing them to the case covers. Im wondering and hoping, could this high copper trace be from that ? I did remove the plugs and re coated the threads at both drains. I am generous with it.
 
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frank,
all it would take is 1 drop of oil touching that antiseize (check its ingredient list) to possibly taint the uoa like this. certainly all of those listed could easily be in antiseize.
if the antisieze has high copper (what brand and type did you use?) could be the sole reason. if we can explain it with that simple answer, then it would be pretty clear the maxima did better than the amsoil at 50% more miles. that would be significant. then of course you would need to see if the price difference is worth it as well.
also if it is the antisieze, then 2k could be possible for the same susvis from maxima as 1k from amsoil. think about that!
laugh.gif
 
Steve,
I really appreciate and value your input here. It is LocTite C5-A Copper based Anti Seize Lubricant.
Here is what I could find:
LocTite-XL.png
 
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Originally Posted By: sunruh

the maxima has a higher susvis at the end on more 50% more miles. still not a 50wt though. but the amsoil was even farther off the mark.



The Amsoil is a "40wt" to start with, the Maxima is "50wt" so not sure where you are coming from. You may want to see what the actual starting viscosities are and calculate the % drop of each before you declare a winner.
 
Man the maxima is super high on the moly, I thought 500 ppm was high and its near 800ppm.

As far as the numbers and milege, pretty much the same overall.

Now why does a group 5 ester oil, need all that moly?
 
Clear win for the Amsoil. It stayed in grade, the Maxima did not. It emerged with more TBN reserve than the Maxima. And the Maxima has magnesium in it which isn't that abrasive? I know they're "splitting the difference" with calcium, this is more common is diesel oils though. And... how the h_ll is your wet clutch not slipping and sliding all over the place with that load of Moly in the Maxima?

Amsoil all the way on this one.
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
And... how the h_ll is your wet clutch not slipping and sliding all over the place with that load of Moly in the Maxima?

Amsoil all the way on this one.


I'm yet to personally see any oil cause clutch slippage on any of my bikes and they all have made pretty big power. I think that thinking of oil causing slippage is an over worry.
 
Originally Posted By: BillyTheKid
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
And... how the h_ll is your wet clutch not slipping and sliding all over the place with that load of Moly in the Maxima?

Amsoil all the way on this one.


I'm yet to personally see any oil cause clutch slippage on any of my bikes and they all have made pretty big power. I think that thinking of oil causing slippage is an over worry.


When I first got my bike finished I had m1 15w-50 in the primary because of all I read about it being similar to the v-twin blah blah blah.
I got out on the highway and my clutch slipped in 5th and 6th. As soon as I got home I drained the primary and put rotella in,and rode the same as I did on the previous ride. I could not re-create the slip,so I am confident that something changed.
A stock bike at stock power levels is likely fine with an oil containing some moly however my bike with a stock clutch at 106hp/115tq,and 100tq at 2000rpm wasn't.
 
I've run the same 15-50 in a hayabusa making over 200 hp and no slip whatsoever. I've also experienced with a few types of oil in the same bike with with turbo on it now and no issues either, however, it's a lockup clutch now.

Had some old gsxr bikes with nitrous and another with a stroker motor and no slip issues either.

All bikes ridden real hard drag racing too, so they were pushed to slip if they would've. Make sure the stack height and springs in clutch are alright, and I don't think there would be a problem.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo

The Amsoil is a "40wt" to start with, the Maxima is "50wt" so not sure where you are coming from. You may want to see what the actual starting viscosities are and calculate the % drop of each before you declare a winner.


somehow i misread the amsoil was a 50 and not a 40.

and yes in this case the amsoil did hold up better.

DP, while we dont have proof, we have a lot of evidence that the anti-sieze could be the source of your copper increase. very good to know.
 
Sunruh have you had a chance to compare the extra with the ultra? Also the Maxima starts off as barely a 50 grade if you look at the numbers and considering it ran 50% more mileage with the same aluminum value is impressive. It is light to reduce parasitic drag because it is a race oil = more power. BTW what wear metal would be from piston rings and bottom end bearings? And also for this test to be more accurate start off with a new air filter each time you change the oil and run them for the same mileage. 300v test?
 
no i have not tested the ultra. kinda hard to find on a store shelf and just so spendy that i wouldnt keep running it even if it was liquid gold for a motor (as long as i am paying that is).

wear metals from rings will depend on what kind of rings you put in. simple ductile iron rings will show Fe of course. if you have chrome-moly might show the chromium. same goes for bore liners. or piston/skirt wear. most pistons are now silicon-alum mix of some sort. these may be in such small levels that they dont show up or are just 1ppm more than normal.

ql, what you say for starting a test is not even as good as what i have done on every one of mine. new air filter, cleaned oil filter (i have a reusable stainless) but i run the oil i am going to test for a complete oci 1 time and drain it (to remove the old oil) and then fill with the oil that will be the test run after new filters.
 
I have a recent Blackstone analysis on my 2009 Yamaha Stratoliner that had Maxima 5w-50 Ultra in it with 1875 miles. Problem is, I don't know how to post a pic!! If you want any info. off of it, just let me know.
 
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