What is "real music"

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
John Lennon would be turning in his grave over this.


The Beatles records in the mid 60's were what BEGAN all of this. They were using very, very strange production techniques and were the first to use various studio trickery like doubling vocals using overdubs; even some of the earliest (gasp!) synthesizers! They grossly over-used the stereo field in the first stereo recordings. They had backwards guitar solos in 1966.

Tape loops were even used in "Tomorrow Never Knows", circa 1966. They pretty much invented the direct box during some sessions, and invented the technique of "flanging" to create the kind of swishy, swooping sounds that were made famous in some of the drum rolls in Zeppelin's "Kashmir".

It's all just manipulating sounds for entertainment. Whether it's hitting strings on wood through electronic amplifiers to acoustic instruments vibrating air, hitting a thin membrane on a microphone which makes electrical voltage swings that are turned into "1"'s and "0"'s on some kids' iPhone.

If it has an effect on you, it's real, whether it's Kraftwerk or Springsteen. Feeling arrogant contempt about someone else's tastes in music only means you are left afflicted with arrogance and contempt. The kid listening to Gorrilaz (sp?!) on their iThingy doesn't even know you exist. They've probably never heard of John Lennon, either.

Originally Posted By: Glenn Gould
“Strawberry Fields Forever” suggests a chance encounter at a mountain wedding between Claudio Monteverdi and a jug band.


I think lots of people are rolling over in their graves.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I repeat: If it can't be performed acoustically, it's probably lousy music!

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I repeat: If it can't be performed acoustically, it's probably lousy music!


Your opinion is so hallowed that it needs to be repeated in the case of a lack of fanfare? It's a discussion forum, and people here are having a pointless and useless, time-wasting debate over the validity of music; most of whom have no idea how fake their preferred music really is. No consensus will be reached, and no binding resolution will be crafted. No one will care.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I repeat: If it can't be performed acoustically, it's probably lousy music!


Your opinion is so hallowed that it needs to be repeated in the case of a lack of fanfare? It's a discussion forum, and people here are having a pointless and useless, time-wasting debate over the validity of music; most of whom have no idea how fake their preferred music really is. No consensus will be reached, and no binding resolution will be crafted. No one will care.


Most of the music I listen to I've also seen performed live by real people with real instruments.... FWIW.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
...It is pure manufactured [censored]. John Lennon would be turning in his grave over this.


John Lennon married Yoko Ono.

Have you heard the Plastic Ono Band?

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
Great, first robots are taking over our manufacuring sector and now we have cartoons replacing real people on stage. lol What the [censored] is our world coming too...

Too me and many others that take our music seriously, this is nothing but utter [censored]. It has no soul or meaning. It is pure manufactured [censored]. John Lennon would be turning in his grave over this.


I think that view is a little narrow minded. "cartoons" (persona is the correct term btw) are NOT taking it over. Seriously, it's not worth getting actually angry or upset over. I think it's amusing that you say music needs to be "taken seriously" I don't think so, I think music is there to be enjoyed, by the artist, and/or by the audience. There is an audience who enjoys listening and watching it, and it is not your place to say whether it is right or wrong imo.

 

[Autobahn88]

How can you take music seriously that is not even being sung by a real person. Kraftwerk, OMD and many of the synth bands of the 70's at least had a human element to the music. These bands were cutting edge using new technologies to enhance music in a different direction. This cartoon singing cannot be taken seriously. It is fake and not real. I repeat it has no soul or real meaning. If I am called arrogant for that view, then call me arrogant.
I personally like my music made by real people for real people.

Everyone has different taste in music, I respect any artist who stays true to thier craft if it be Country, Metal, Classical etc. This in my book garners no respect for its lack of humanistic quality.

You post this up and when I say something that you don't like you say I have no right to post my opinion. Well that is my opinion and take it as you will.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more


If it has an effect on you, it's real, whether it's Kraftwerk or Springsteen. Feeling arrogant contempt about someone else's tastes in music only means you are left afflicted with arrogance and contempt. The kid listening to Gorrilaz (sp?!) on their iThingy doesn't even know you exist. They've probably never heard of John Lennon, either.

I remember having a discussion among several younger people about music and I brought up former Black Flag frontman and '80s hardcore punk legend Henry Rollins' glowing reviews of Van Halen when fronted by David Lee Roth. How funny the whole story was.

One of the younger people said, "OH! I know who David Lee Roth is. He is that guy from Guns and Roses"

To be fair, I couldn't tell you what half of the songs in the current Billboard Top Ten Pop songs sound like.

 

[Autobahn88]

Speaking of Henry Rollins, I love this skit of his. People may not agree with him but he is not afraid of saying what is on his mind. Oh, I hope that this does not hurt anyones feelings.

I must warn you however, If you are offended by bad language then do not listen to this.

 

[G.Frost]

Offenbach Tales of Hoffmann - Barcarola

Anna Netrebko, Elina Garanca

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQR0LQskL4E

Hear it, feel it, know it's real.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
How can you take music seriously that is not even being sung by a real person. Kraftwerk, OMD and many of the synth bands of the 70's at least had a human element to the music. These bands were cutting edge using new technologies to enhance music in a different direction. This cartoon singing cannot be taken seriously. It is fake and not real. I repeat it has no soul or real meaning. If I am called arrogant for that view, then call me arrogant.
I personally like my music made by real people for real people.

Everyone has different taste in music, I respect any artist who stays true to thier craft if it be Country, Metal, Classical etc. This in my book garners no respect for its lack of humanistic quality.

You post this up and when I say something that you don't like you say I have no right to post my opinion. Well that is my opinion and take it as you will.

I didn't say you have no right to post your opinion. Those are your words, son't put them in my mouth.

You say music needs to be "taken seriously" Well your opinion, but I feel that music isn't supposed to really be "serious". It's something people enjoy. I can enjoy it. Obviously plenty of other people can too.

I don't understand this "has no meaning" thing eitehr. I'm guessing you didn't read the lyrics. Because it gives her a personality, and the lyrics are real.


What about the people who made it? Hmmm? What about the people who put their love and effort into making it. Those people put miku on stage and are proud of themselves and "her". What about the guy/girl who wrote the lyrics? Do they not deserve credit either? Whether or not you approve of miku herself, I would think you would at least give some respect and credit to the people that actually did it.

Again I'll say, I bet if it was a human "avatar" IE that is looks like a real person, you would probably have less of an aversion to it. But I'm used to this, "It's a cartoon" , or the ever pervasive "it's japanese". Again, your opinion. I personally think it's narrow minded but that's my own opinion as well.

But I think you ARE being a little arrogant, to not give credit to the ACTUAL people who made her performance possible. Even if Miku herself is not, the people who made even that "fake" music, ARE.


Basically what you are saying is akin to saying that this

Is less art than say, this right?

Both are still someones hard work and love of what they are doing.

 

[Propflux01]

Real music is any music YOU feel is real. Just remember, it's only real to YOU

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I repeat: If it can't be performed acoustically, it's probably lousy music!


Your opinion is so hallowed that it needs to be repeated in the case of a lack of fanfare? It's a discussion forum, and people here are having a pointless and useless, time-wasting debate over the validity of music; most of whom have no idea how fake their preferred music really is. No consensus will be reached, and no binding resolution will be crafted. No one will care.


The difference being: I KNOW that my favorite singers can sing! They have given acoustic performances, one got his start on Broadway.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Propflux01
Real music is any music YOU feel is real. Just remember, it's only real to YOU


Nothing's real until you feel.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
I repeat: If it can't be performed acoustically, it's probably lousy music!


Your opinion is so hallowed that it needs to be repeated in the case of a lack of fanfare? It's a discussion forum, and people here are having a pointless and useless, time-wasting debate over the validity of music; most of whom have no idea how fake their preferred music really is. No consensus will be reached, and no binding resolution will be crafted. No one will care.


The difference being: I KNOW that my favorite singers can sing! They have given acoustic performances, one got his start on Broadway.

 

[greenjp]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Nothing's real until you feel.

Nice, I wonder how many other people got this reference

 

[mechanicx]

In my opinion a person playing an electric guitar is just as much a real musician as playing an acoustic regardless of effects boxes. And also playing a keyboard to emulate a piano or organ is also a musician. But if all you're doing is composing music fed through a synthesizer than that's not being a musician.

 

[uc50ic4more]

This is how a lot of music today is composed. The, uh, "keyboard" on the left represents a conventional keyboard, with bass notes at the bottom. The vertical lines at the bottom represent "velocity" (all of the notes in this example seem to be full volume) and the horizontal lines represent notes over times, which moves from left to right. The numbers visible near the top are the bars, divided into a 16th note grid.

Whenever I would record hip-hop acts in my studio I would essentially "draw" all the notes into a window similar to this one. You can assign a set of samples to this array: It is common for people to record a $180,000 Bosendorfer piano, each and every note at different dynamic levels, and package them on a set of DVD's. You can then take those samples and assign, for example, the D3 key to the D3 sample from the disks. The samples may have 16 different velocity levels which automatically (or manually, set up by you) correspond to one of 128 different levels of velocity in the software. It is astonishing how real-life that can sound; given that you are using **real** audio samples that you are simply "triggering". Very little pop music today is played conventionally. Sequencing allows for perfect repeat-ability in the "performance" and you can make decisions about what instrument is being played all you want without ever having to hire more musicians or hope the new musician can play the part perfectly: You simply load up a different set of samples and feed it the same "notes". The musical passage in this example below could be used with samples of a piano, a guitar, a flute, a trumpet or anything else, including nonsensical noises; and you only have to program it ONCE.

You can also assign completely different sounds, which need not even be musical, to these "notes" to trigger different sounds you need in your music (think sound effects like cars, birds, etc.) or you can assign drums samples to each key on the "keyboard"; so C1 might be your kick drum, D1 your snare, etc.

You can get sample sets of all kinds of stuff: Even the Memphis Horns from all of those old Stax recordings from Otis Redding, et al. have made disks of themselves intoning different notes, chords, etc. Famous drummers will release sets of themselves playing each drum at varying velocities. You can get samples of choirs, indigenous instruments and far-out stuff you can't even conceive of. These sets can be bought and sold and traded; and they're awfully handy when you live in the middle of nowhere and REALLY want a didgeridoo or pan flute on your record.

 

[edhackett]

And that is why recorded music sucks today. It isn't a performance with the synergy that can happen with a group of musicians playing together. It's just a bunch of sounds recorded at different times and places stuck together, and that is exactly what it sounds like.

Ed

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more


Whenever I would record hip-hop acts


I'm glad you referred to hip-hop as an "act", because it sure as [censored] isn't music

And then there's its retarded brother, rap. Nothing like [censored] poetry to really dazzle them with your intellect...... ([censored], hoes, [censored], hoes, money money cars, 9mm caps busting, drugs, booze, hoes, [censored], money money money).