2009 Honda Pilot - Engine Piston Damage

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I spoke with my Honda dealer more about the damage today. They said the pistons and rings were scored which made them loose and out of spec. They said it was likely caused by the sludge either getting into the cylinders or affecting the clearance for the pistons. The warranty inspector confirmed the damage.

On to the warranty coverage. A new or remanufactued engine was immediately shot down by the warranty company. So my Honda dealer found a used engine that comes with a one year 12k mile warranty with 34k miles. Total cost of repair with tax is roughly 6200. Warranty company doesn't like that number and will cover 5100, leaving me with 1100. They want me to use and engine they have sourced and take it to an independent shop for installation because a Honda dealer will not install and engine without a warranty on it. Obviously I think that is bologna. I've placed a call to the selling dealer asking for a better result or I will return the car to them. I likely won't hear from them until Monday.

I don't have a problem telling you this warranty company, GWC Warranties, sucks. What kind of morons are these people to think I'm going to take my 20k investment to a hack shop for an unverified used engine. In my opinion they should cover the cost through the Honda dealer and I'm hoping the selling dealer can push them to do that.
 
Would you be satisfied with the used (34K miles) engine?

I agree with you that I wouldn't want some independent shop doing this job. Stick with the Honda dealer all the way.

Did the Honda dealer quote you a price on a new or remanufactured engine? I'm just curious how much more it is than this used one.
 
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Would you be satisfied with the used (34K miles) engine?

I agree with you that I wouldn't want some independent shop doing this job. Stick with the Honda dealer all the way.

Did the Honda dealer quote you a price on a new or remanufactured engine? I'm just curious how much more it is than this used one.


I would be satisfied with that engine. I know my dealer is not going to slap a junkyard engine in there and its warrantied for 12k miles and 12 months. They are going to inspect it to make sure it is clean before installation. It is not going to be worse than the original engine, that's for sure.
The new engine quote was 9k for just the engine. I'm going to price remanufactured options on Monday.
 
I think the Honda Motor Corp should offer you the engine for 50% retail and the warranty company should pick up that full tab. This vehicle isn't that far out of its factory warranty period is it? Most of what precipitated this unknowingly took place while the warranty was in effect. There's no doubt about that.

Give Honda Corporate a call. Can't hurt.

I also couldn't blame you for wanting the selling dealer to take the thing back. I'm really sorry this happened to you.
 
Now we are getting "ceramic" sludge which scores cylinder walls! When did sludge tuned in to diamond hard capable of scoring metal?
I am sure there is a better explanation than that such as sludge caused the oil passages to block and lack of oil flow caused the scoring but what was told does not compute.
 
Originally Posted By: nmike101
I spoke with my Honda dealer more about the damage today. They said the pistons and rings were scored which made them loose and out of spec. They said it was likely caused by the sludge either getting into the cylinders or affecting the clearance for the pistons. The warranty inspector confirmed the damage.

On to the warranty coverage. A new or remanufactued engine was immediately shot down by the warranty company. So my Honda dealer found a used engine that comes with a one year 12k mile warranty with 34k miles. Total cost of repair with tax is roughly 6200. Warranty company doesn't like that number and will cover 5100, leaving me with 1100. They want me to use and engine they have sourced and take it to an independent shop for installation because a Honda dealer will not install and engine without a warranty on it. Obviously I think that is bologna. I've placed a call to the selling dealer asking for a better result or I will return the car to them. I likely won't hear from them until Monday.

I don't have a problem telling you this warranty company, GWC Warranties, sucks. What kind of morons are these people to think I'm going to take my 20k investment to a hack shop for an unverified used engine. In my opinion they should cover the cost through the Honda dealer and I'm hoping the selling dealer can push them to do that.


Did you buy the extended warranty from the dealer who sold you the car? If so they should be able to work it out with the warranty company. If they can't consider hiring an attorney, or getting one of the local news channels involved if things don't go your way. Play nice with them right up until you feel you're being jerked around, then take the gloves off. JMO
 
+1 on this. If I read this right, you bought the car from a reputable dealer, though without an extended warranty. Okay, fine.

A couple of months later the engine is junk.

The dealer's tech didn't look in the filler cap to see if there was any sludge, but you can see it? You, the "untrained" member of the public, did a better job than the "expert" dealer? No way.

If it was something they couldn't be expected to see, like some cars having baffles below the filler cap so you can't see the top of the head, I can partly understand that.

Whoever checked that car ought to get a kick in the trousers by the service manager. That level of negligence is inexcusable. Consumer reps on TV eat this stuff up, and rightly so.

Simply taking the car back and refunding your money is the solution. You shouldn't have to sweat the condition of a replacement engine unless the dealer is willing to warrant it for an extended time.

Keep pushing nicely, then ramp up.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: nmike101
I spoke with my Honda dealer more about the damage today. They said the pistons and rings were scored which made them loose and out of spec. They said it was likely caused by the sludge either getting into the cylinders or affecting the clearance for the pistons. The warranty inspector confirmed the damage.

On to the warranty coverage. A new or remanufactued engine was immediately shot down by the warranty company. So my Honda dealer found a used engine that comes with a one year 12k mile warranty with 34k miles. Total cost of repair with tax is roughly 6200. Warranty company doesn't like that number and will cover 5100, leaving me with 1100. They want me to use and engine they have sourced and take it to an independent shop for installation because a Honda dealer will not install and engine without a warranty on it. Obviously I think that is bologna. I've placed a call to the selling dealer asking for a better result or I will return the car to them. I likely won't hear from them until Monday.

I don't have a problem telling you this warranty company, GWC Warranties, sucks. What kind of morons are these people to think I'm going to take my 20k investment to a hack shop for an unverified used engine. In my opinion they should cover the cost through the Honda dealer and I'm hoping the selling dealer can push them to do that.


Did you buy the extended warranty from the dealer who sold you the car? If so they should be able to work it out with the warranty company. If they can't consider hiring an attorney, or getting one of the local news channels involved if things don't go your way. Play nice with them right up until you feel you're being jerked around, then take the gloves off. JMO


It came with this used car warrany. It is a short 6 month 6k mile warranty. It is supposed to cover cost of repairs at any ase certified shop minus a one hundred dollar deductible. But apparently they feel Honda dealer prices are too high. I will update this part of the story once it is all done, but I have a feeling I'm going to have to do a lot of complaining for a long time to get a resolutions that satisfactory. I am not even requesting anything excessive I feel. I just want my car fixed correctly, with a verified and warrantied part, at the place with the most expertise to handle the repair. Some people would be going for rental reimbursement, compensation for the reduction in value of the car, compensation for the time the car has been off the road, time, new engine parts etc. Maybe I should start making outlandish claims like that and hope the net result is coverage of the job in full.
 
It might be time to contact the DA, an attorney, and the local news channel if things don't go your way. Good luck with this, don't let them wear you down!
 
While I agree that I would try to negotiate a deal on a reman or new Honda engine, particularly if I planned to keep the truck very long term, I'd also be willing to bear some of the cost of the upgrade.

I do not think that there is any thing wrong with the used engine the honda dealer found. I would be happy with that if I could not negotiate a deal I was happy with on a reman/new.

If the selling dealer is a Honda dealer, I'm sure they would be interested in knowing that the warranty company they deal with is trying to force people away from dealer service. On the other hand there is a lot of funny business that goes on in the warranty business. Some of these warranty companies are really more of an administration company and the selling dealer actually pays for the repair (but they keep most of the upfront warranty price). I know in my former life we dealt with Ryan and that was their deal. I've never heard of GWC though.
 
Sounds to me like the warranty company is trying to do a screw job on you. You are much easier to please than me because nothing they have offered is even close to anything I would accept. For $100 you should have a reman-new motor at the least. Not another used motor someone else trashed.
 
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Originally Posted By: tsduke
Sounds to me like the warranty company is trying to do a screw job on you. You are much easier to please than me because nothing they have offered is even close to anything I would accept. For $100 you should have a reman-new motor at the least. Not another used motor someone else trashed.

Bah he bought a used vehicle with 72K miles, a used engine with approx half the mileage and 2x the warranty should make him happy if not delirious... I would be fighting to have the Honda dealer install it though...
 
At this point I would be in touch with the attorney general of your state. They should have a specific division for consumer protection like this. They have a lot of power & swing. Most companies back off when you get them involved, but it is a last resort.
 
What about a new short block......which gets you new pistons, rings, cylinders.....the things that they say are damaged?
Then have your heads put onto that....as you don't mention any issue with them.
Of course, you end up adding labor, gaskets and other items.

I'm not sure if I got the right engine at the online Honda parts site that I grabbed.....but it lists the block as having a list price of about $3144.......and were offering it for about $2201.
The heads list at about $1934 for the front one and about $2454 for the rear one.

So.....if the warranty company was willing to pay out $5100, you would have about $2000 room from list price of the block for the labor and parts to do what I suggested, before you have to dig into your pocket, beyond your $100 deductible.
If you trust your Honda dealership's service department, that might be something to look into vs a used engine.
 
If you bought both car and warranty from a Honda Dealership you should merely offer to pay THEM the $100 deductible. No used car warranty I know of covers rental cars, loss of value, etc. That's all a pipe dream.

"Any ASE-certified shop" should certainly cover the Honda Dealership, so...

Did you buy it at a Honda Dealership? If so, let them work it out with the Warranty company. If not, you need to find an ASE-certified shop YOU'll trust and get them to agree with the Warranty price. If nobody else will do it for that you still have a good case. Offer to split the $1100 if needs be and that gets you to where you are happy: $1100 divided by 3 = $366.67 on my calculator.

Cheers!
 
Do you have any paperwork for this warranty? Was there limitations to it or something?
 
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
What is your oil type, filter and OCI? Thanks.


Sorry I was so late in getting back to you.

My folks owned the car for the first 58,000 miles, and it was bulk Walmart conventional every 5,000 miles with the cheapest filter. Since then, it's usually been a synthetic every 5,000 miles, though as you can see from my signature, I've gone back to conventional. Still every 5,000 miles. Filters I use are either L14610 (Purolator Classic), PL14610 (Purolator PureOne), PSL14610 (Purolator Synthetic), or OEM Honda A02.
 
What sucks is the Honda engineers figured out there was a problem and made a change as a result of consumer testing, a good thing for owners of a newer model. That's if the change was the real fix, time will tell. The people with the older models are SOL though, and have to be on the lookout for problems. They did some real world testing for Honda, and helped bring about the change you mentioned. It's a shame this is how the auto industry works, it makes buying the first year or two of any new design or technology a real [censored] shoot.
 
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