Donald - Wilkes Barre.
2009 Honda Pilot - Engine Piston Damage
- Thread starter nmike101
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Sorry to hear about your experience. By chance did you look down the oil fill hole with a flashlight before purchasing the car? If so was sludge visible? In less than ideal conditions 8k on a conventional oil is tough on any engine.
If you purchased this vehicle with a warranty then read the terms very closely. If you are covered then DEMAND in a professional way that a suitable engine or rebuild be performed.
I think the fact that you bought from a reputable dealer will work in your favor. They will not take the loss, the warranty company will and the dealership should work with you to help.
If you purchased this vehicle with a warranty then read the terms very closely. If you are covered then DEMAND in a professional way that a suitable engine or rebuild be performed.
I think the fact that you bought from a reputable dealer will work in your favor. They will not take the loss, the warranty company will and the dealership should work with you to help.
Mike, sorry to hear about your issues. It's an interesting one indeed.
I've followed this particular powertrain quite a bit given I've owned a 2008 Honda Odyssey since new. I've not seen/read of an issue like you're having.
Sometimes buying thru the big chain dealers can be an advantage. They've got a reputation to protect. I can't see them not fixing this for you with that warranty, n/c.
Joel
I've followed this particular powertrain quite a bit given I've owned a 2008 Honda Odyssey since new. I've not seen/read of an issue like you're having.
Sometimes buying thru the big chain dealers can be an advantage. They've got a reputation to protect. I can't see them not fixing this for you with that warranty, n/c.
Joel
Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
Sorry to hear about your experience. By chance did you look down the oil fill hole with a flashlight before purchasing the car? If so was sludge visible? In less than ideal conditions 8k on a conventional oil is tough on any engine.
If you purchased this vehicle with a warranty then read the terms very closely. If you are covered then DEMAND in a professional way that a suitable engine or rebuild be performed.
I think the fact that you bought from a reputable dealer will work in your favor. They will not take the loss, the warranty company will and the dealership should work with you to help.
I did not and yes there was visible sludge. That is clearly my fault because I would have run away from this particular pilot knowing what I do now. I definitely should have educated myself more. I have owned several Honda cars with triple the mileage of this pilot and never had an engine problem. The crv I traded in had about 110k and I used the Honda mm, so I didn't balk at the OCI.
with all of that said, I am thankful I went in for a fix before the warranty expired. It should cover it, and I will reach out to the selling dealer if needed.
Sorry to hear about your experience. By chance did you look down the oil fill hole with a flashlight before purchasing the car? If so was sludge visible? In less than ideal conditions 8k on a conventional oil is tough on any engine.
If you purchased this vehicle with a warranty then read the terms very closely. If you are covered then DEMAND in a professional way that a suitable engine or rebuild be performed.
I think the fact that you bought from a reputable dealer will work in your favor. They will not take the loss, the warranty company will and the dealership should work with you to help.
I did not and yes there was visible sludge. That is clearly my fault because I would have run away from this particular pilot knowing what I do now. I definitely should have educated myself more. I have owned several Honda cars with triple the mileage of this pilot and never had an engine problem. The crv I traded in had about 110k and I used the Honda mm, so I didn't balk at the OCI.
with all of that said, I am thankful I went in for a fix before the warranty expired. It should cover it, and I will reach out to the selling dealer if needed.
Having dealt with warranty companies, I can tell you sending an inspector on a high dollar repair claim is standard procedure.
Doesn't mean they will or will not cover it by any means, but I'd not be alarmed by the company sending a representative is all.
Doesn't mean they will or will not cover it by any means, but I'd not be alarmed by the company sending a representative is all.
Sorry to hear about your troubles HOPEFULLY the warranty will cover it.
Going by the online OEM Honda parts houses it doesn't look like Honda offers an Engine Assembly, it is short block and 2 head assemblies (at about 3000, 2000 & 2000) ouch.
Normally I would say a used engine with guarantee and the same or fewer miles wouldn't be a bad deal it seems like these aren't very forgiving and I'd be concerned a used one wasn't any better than yours. Definitely let your dealer know this. If the warranty company wants to go used demand that you get to see it before installation and reject it if it isn't internally clean and leak free.
Keep us up to date, I would love to hear about the piston damage.
Going by the online OEM Honda parts houses it doesn't look like Honda offers an Engine Assembly, it is short block and 2 head assemblies (at about 3000, 2000 & 2000) ouch.
Normally I would say a used engine with guarantee and the same or fewer miles wouldn't be a bad deal it seems like these aren't very forgiving and I'd be concerned a used one wasn't any better than yours. Definitely let your dealer know this. If the warranty company wants to go used demand that you get to see it before installation and reject it if it isn't internally clean and leak free.
Keep us up to date, I would love to hear about the piston damage.
Wow! Seems as though Honda should issue a TSB about using conventional oil in this engine. This is the second one just here on BITOG. There has to be more somewhere out there we haven't found out about yet.
Originally Posted By: 4ever4d
Wow! Seems as though Honda should issue a TSB about using conventional oil in this engine. This is the second one just here on BITOG. There has to be more somewhere out there we haven't found out about yet.
They should reduce the OCI and ultimately redesign this engine, as it is clearly not a lubrication problem. Trav said it many times that he saw this problem even when synthetic oil was used.
But of course, since the view of synthetic oils borders on religion here, this little tidbit seems to be always ignored
Wow! Seems as though Honda should issue a TSB about using conventional oil in this engine. This is the second one just here on BITOG. There has to be more somewhere out there we haven't found out about yet.
They should reduce the OCI and ultimately redesign this engine, as it is clearly not a lubrication problem. Trav said it many times that he saw this problem even when synthetic oil was used.
But of course, since the view of synthetic oils borders on religion here, this little tidbit seems to be always ignored
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
They should reduce the OCI and ultimately redesign this engine, as it is clearly not a lubrication problem. Trav said it many times that he saw this problem even when synthetic oil was used.
But of course, since the view of synthetic oils borders on religion here, this little tidbit seems to be always ignored
You're kinda straddlin' the fence there, pardner! Cause it's the OLM that's the problem (as the engine sits), and Trav was clear on that. A REASONABLE OCI is what's warranted, as redesigning engines in situ aint happening. And that makes it a LUBRICATION problem. If a REAL synthetic, appropiate viscosity, with very low NOACK and as near to 0 oxidation potential as possible were used on a short interval, say 4K miles, there would be no sludge. Would that have precluded OP's problem? Who knows? But it certainly couldn't hurt and would be quite a bit better than running bulk dino out to 0% on the OLM.
They should reduce the OCI and ultimately redesign this engine, as it is clearly not a lubrication problem. Trav said it many times that he saw this problem even when synthetic oil was used.
But of course, since the view of synthetic oils borders on religion here, this little tidbit seems to be always ignored
You're kinda straddlin' the fence there, pardner! Cause it's the OLM that's the problem (as the engine sits), and Trav was clear on that. A REASONABLE OCI is what's warranted, as redesigning engines in situ aint happening. And that makes it a LUBRICATION problem. If a REAL synthetic, appropiate viscosity, with very low NOACK and as near to 0 oxidation potential as possible were used on a short interval, say 4K miles, there would be no sludge. Would that have precluded OP's problem? Who knows? But it certainly couldn't hurt and would be quite a bit better than running bulk dino out to 0% on the OLM.
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Frankly without real numbers for the actual amount of failures I tend to think this may be more "Internet Amplification" than a real epidemic.
We never hear from the many happy owners who don't come to BITOG and obsess with the rest of us.
This site has really re-worked my opinions on Hondas for sure, though.
We never hear from the many happy owners who don't come to BITOG and obsess with the rest of us.
This site has really re-worked my opinions on Hondas for sure, though.
Mike,
Welcome to the forums and sorry to hear about your troubles. Please keep us updated as to whether Honda steps up and corrects this situation for you. Once corrected, as others have already said, grab a good synthetic oil and change it at reasonable intervals and you should be good to go.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Frankly without real numbers for the actual amount of failures I tend to think this may be more "Internet Amplification" than a real epidemic.
We never hear from the many happy owners who don't come to BITOG and obsess with the rest of us.
This site has really re-worked my opinions on Hondas for sure, though.
Definitely agree with you.
However, I'd venture to say that there are probably a lot of owners out there that don't have a clue what an OLM is, nor do they care. They just drive into their local quick lube as they always have, grab some bulk dino, and have it changed every 3-4 k as indicated by the window sticker that their quick lube puts on their windshield. This will likely help Honda's case by prolonging the inevitable with these vehicles, and thus we don't hear about a mass epidemic of failures. I think there would be more failures if more people actually knew, trusted, and firmly followed the OLM.
I know we are a special bunch of people here, but there are many of us that will not follow an OLM out to the end, and if they do, it's normally with synthetic "just in case".
Welcome to the forums and sorry to hear about your troubles. Please keep us updated as to whether Honda steps up and corrects this situation for you. Once corrected, as others have already said, grab a good synthetic oil and change it at reasonable intervals and you should be good to go.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Frankly without real numbers for the actual amount of failures I tend to think this may be more "Internet Amplification" than a real epidemic.
We never hear from the many happy owners who don't come to BITOG and obsess with the rest of us.
This site has really re-worked my opinions on Hondas for sure, though.
Definitely agree with you.
However, I'd venture to say that there are probably a lot of owners out there that don't have a clue what an OLM is, nor do they care. They just drive into their local quick lube as they always have, grab some bulk dino, and have it changed every 3-4 k as indicated by the window sticker that their quick lube puts on their windshield. This will likely help Honda's case by prolonging the inevitable with these vehicles, and thus we don't hear about a mass epidemic of failures. I think there would be more failures if more people actually knew, trusted, and firmly followed the OLM.
I know we are a special bunch of people here, but there are many of us that will not follow an OLM out to the end, and if they do, it's normally with synthetic "just in case".
It looks to me that most, not all, but MOST Honda engine sludge problems occur with the VCM version. Do you all agree?
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
It looks to me that most, not all, but MOST Honda engine sludge problems occur with the VCM version. Do you all agree?
Yes. Our 2005 Acura, with the non-VCM version of this 3.5L V-6 engine, is spotless through the oil fill hole in the front cylinder head cover.
It looks to me that most, not all, but MOST Honda engine sludge problems occur with the VCM version. Do you all agree?
Yes. Our 2005 Acura, with the non-VCM version of this 3.5L V-6 engine, is spotless through the oil fill hole in the front cylinder head cover.
What is your oil type, filter and OCI? Thanks.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Frankly without real numbers for the actual amount of failures I tend to think this may be more "Internet Amplification" than a real epidemic.
We never hear from the many happy owners who don't come to BITOG and obsess with the rest of us.
This site has really re-worked my opinions on Hondas for sure, though.
I'm with you in this case.
BTW: a properly broken-in mass production engine doesn't need syn oil if you ask me. just a very conservative OCI regimen with regular oil.
Syn is for high stressed (thus higher heat) situation and very low startup tempurature winters (IMO).
Q.
Frankly without real numbers for the actual amount of failures I tend to think this may be more "Internet Amplification" than a real epidemic.
We never hear from the many happy owners who don't come to BITOG and obsess with the rest of us.
This site has really re-worked my opinions on Hondas for sure, though.
I'm with you in this case.
BTW: a properly broken-in mass production engine doesn't need syn oil if you ask me. just a very conservative OCI regimen with regular oil.
Syn is for high stressed (thus higher heat) situation and very low startup tempurature winters (IMO).
Q.
I still suspect that there is another factor here. This engine is being in use (with VCM) for many years now on Odyssey. That forum is the benchmark for model specific discussion. To put another way, you can NOT find another internet resource where a specific model has more coverage that the odyclub. According to me, that majority of that engine would in Odysseys; there are just not that many Pilots and Accord-V6 compared to Odysseys.
Given how those soccer mom vans are driven and serviced, the forum would be littered with the engine problems (as opposed to the transmission problems
Yes, we had this discussion before ...
Going back to OP's vehicle 3years 75K miles; unless it was used as a taxicab in NYC I don't see how it could have been all the stop and go traffic. This vehicle would have lived most of its life running on highway to put that kind of mileage. If we all understand one thing, highway driving is very easy on oil.
Something is not adding up.
Given how those soccer mom vans are driven and serviced, the forum would be littered with the engine problems (as opposed to the transmission problems
Yes, we had this discussion before ...
Going back to OP's vehicle 3years 75K miles; unless it was used as a taxicab in NYC I don't see how it could have been all the stop and go traffic. This vehicle would have lived most of its life running on highway to put that kind of mileage. If we all understand one thing, highway driving is very easy on oil.
Something is not adding up.
We know a couple of families that are totally Honda Kool-aid drinkers. And they've had quite a few problems, several really serious ones like munched valves and a total transmission failure but they still walk around acting like the only car made is Honda and everything else is unworthy. I don't get it, but I'm not impressed.
I see the same syndrome but to a lesser extent with some Toyota owners.
I see the same syndrome but to a lesser extent with some Toyota owners.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
We know a couple of families that are totally Honda Kool-aid drinkers. And they've had quite a few problems, several really serious ones like munched valves and a total transmission failure but they still walk around acting like the only car made is Honda and everything else is unworthy. I don't get it, but I'm not impressed.
I see the same syndrome but to a lesser extent with some Toyota owners.
Same!
"Well my engine blew up, but it's a Honda so it still has a better engine than your Ford". If I experienced any type of failure like that and had to pay out of pocket ... I'd be done with that brand of vehicles.
We know a couple of families that are totally Honda Kool-aid drinkers. And they've had quite a few problems, several really serious ones like munched valves and a total transmission failure but they still walk around acting like the only car made is Honda and everything else is unworthy. I don't get it, but I'm not impressed.
I see the same syndrome but to a lesser extent with some Toyota owners.
Same!
"Well my engine blew up, but it's a Honda so it still has a better engine than your Ford". If I experienced any type of failure like that and had to pay out of pocket ... I'd be done with that brand of vehicles.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
We know a couple of families that are totally Honda Kool-aid drinkers. And they've had quite a few problems, several really serious ones like munched valves and a total transmission failure but they still walk around acting like the only car made is Honda and everything else is unworthy. I don't get it, but I'm not impressed.
I see the same syndrome but to a lesser extent with some Toyota owners.
Same!
"Well my engine blew up, but it's a Honda so it still has a better engine than your Ford". If I experienced any type of failure like that and had to pay out of pocket ... I'd be done with that brand of vehicles.
Ha! Agreed. My Ford 4.6L had to have a head gasket job done at only 53k miles. It was covered under extended warranty so I wrote it off as a fluke with an otherwise fine engine. If it had been on my dime I may have sworn Ford off after 20+ loyal years.
More germaine to the OP's post, when they took the heads off my 4.6 it was spotless inside. And I had done 5k OCIs with Pennzoil Yellow Bottle for 30k of those 50k miles. No synthetics for me, and I'm glad I didn't waste my money on them.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
We know a couple of families that are totally Honda Kool-aid drinkers. And they've had quite a few problems, several really serious ones like munched valves and a total transmission failure but they still walk around acting like the only car made is Honda and everything else is unworthy. I don't get it, but I'm not impressed.
I see the same syndrome but to a lesser extent with some Toyota owners.
Same!
"Well my engine blew up, but it's a Honda so it still has a better engine than your Ford". If I experienced any type of failure like that and had to pay out of pocket ... I'd be done with that brand of vehicles.
Ha! Agreed. My Ford 4.6L had to have a head gasket job done at only 53k miles. It was covered under extended warranty so I wrote it off as a fluke with an otherwise fine engine. If it had been on my dime I may have sworn Ford off after 20+ loyal years.
More germaine to the OP's post, when they took the heads off my 4.6 it was spotless inside. And I had done 5k OCIs with Pennzoil Yellow Bottle for 30k of those 50k miles. No synthetics for me, and I'm glad I didn't waste my money on them.
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