Benefit of Amsoil Performance Improver when running extended drains

[TooSlick]

One of the reasons why I have gotten excellent results with extended drains is that I use the Amsoil PI gas additive on a regular basis. I carry a bottle in each vehicle and add 1 ounce for every 10 gallons of fuel. This helps keep combustion efficiency high and reduces the impact of fuel contamination on oil oxidation and thickening. These are the seven most recent extended drain, oil analysis results I've gotten with regular use of Amsoil Performance Improver, using a variety of Amsoil engine oils.

Oil type/ miles on sample/EOT viscosity

0w-30/12,000 miles/11.2 Cst

10w-30/12,000 miles/11.2 Cst

20w-50/12,000 miles/19.8 Cst

0w-30/16,000 miles/12.7 Cst

Series 3000/15,000 miles/12.1 Cst

Series 3000/21,000 miles/13.0 Cst

5w-30/12,000 miles/10.9 Cst

If you are seeing high levels of oxidation/nitration or total solids in your used oil samples, I highly recommend regular use of this product. It will improve the solvency of the fuel you use and the crankcase oil will hold up better.

Tooslick

 

[sbc350gearhead]

Wouldn't FP, Nuetra, Techron,etc, give the same results?

 

[TooSlick]

I wouldn' t use Techron that often, but I do think that fuel power and neutra work in much the same way. I am not at all surprised at the results folks are getting with fuel power.

 

[userfriendly]

You know, its funny....most people never put added junk in their car's gas tanks except gasoline, never put anything in the engine except oil and never have problems.
Then one reads these forums and determines that most, if not all gasoline and engine oil additives are a rip-off.
Save your money folks, you don't need them.

 

[Robbie Alexander]

quote:

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Originally posted by userfriendly:
*-*-
Then one reads these forums and determines that most, if not all gasoline and engine oil additives are a rip-off.*-*-*-

---

The key word is MOST.
Some do work, and MOST are indeed a waste of money. I'd say if there are benefits SEEN, then continue. I'd say even if the benefits are small, if it is at least paying for itself or paying the most part of it's cost in fuel savings, and there are no severe increase in wear showing up, then by all means continue.

 

[userfriendly]

Well lets say you have just bought a used vehicle, suspecious of its previous maintance schedule you go ahead with engine flush XYZ and engine oil additive XYZ instead of removing the valve covers and oil pan and having them hot tanked.
Engine flush and oil treatment loosens all of the gunk and goo that was deposited over some time in cracks and corners and puts those impurities into the engine oil.
The oil filter catches most of it by the 20th pass before it plugs up, and by-pases the rest.
Some solution to a non-existant problem.
So what if the inside of your engine is dirty after 10 years and 200,000 miles?

 

[wulimaster]

quote:

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Originally posted by userfriendly:
You know, its funny....most people never put added junk in their car's gas tanks except gasoline, never put anything in the engine except oil and never have problems.

---

I would call a decrease in fuel economy to be a problem.

 

[userfriendly]

When the cats away, the mice will play.

 

[GSV]

userfriendly,

There is a real market for additives. When BMW and GM both state that all gasoline is deficient on detergents that should say something.

I will agree that 95% are total crap or will do more harm than good. I saw a guy pay $32 for Z-max on Friday. I wanted to tell him to look up the FTC decisions on the web.

That being said there are some good products out there.

 

[Leo]

Ive been using Lucas UCL the past few fill ups and have noticed a small increase in mileage. I think its worth it, and it contains some extra detergents as well so I dont mind using it.

 

[Spector]

Okay, I have one vehicle that I have done exactly as TooSlick noted above, carried the ole PI in the trunk and at 159,000 miles I will swear the PI was added 99% of the time at fill up. Two others I also have done the same. Now, has it made a difference. Don't know and neither does TooSlick that posted the great results. Why, no comparison. I have never had an injector or fuel related problem but I sure have had poor UOA using Amsoil 10W30 and PI. two other cars that rarely get the PI or Neutra run fine also, actually one with even better UOA and more miles between OCI, it is the engine and driving scenario IMO.

IMO it has nothing to do with the PI but everything to do with the engine and driving scenario. Most cars on the road use no gas additives and run fine for 100,000 + miles.

to say the PI works without any comparison data is premature. Actually, I am now using a 50-50 mix of PI and Neutra and will eventually go to 100% Neutra. The PI is very expensive. $62/gal (yes concentrated) and my experience with Neutra,(especially in small 4 cycle engines is great) has been great and $13/gal + shipping.

However, do either prevent or help the engine and provide better UOA, I don't think so. At least not in my case.

[ October 27, 2003, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]

 

[Pablo]

spector - PI is $42 gallon, but even that is expensive compared to FP at $25. Nuetra is $13/gallon? Cheap.

I have NO faith in any in the tank product doing much real cleaning, but with my homebrew, I did get a MPG boost. I have seen a diff. in my 1 cylinder engines with PI, zero in 4 and up.

I will try FP soon.

 

[FowVay]

I am a huge fan of the Amsoil PI and I'd like to add that when added to the fuel tank at 1 ounce per 10 gallons it becomes a very cost effective additive. I am uncertain about the mix ratio for Fuel Power but I know that with Neutra you add 10 times this amount (1 oz per gallon).

This is something to consider when figuring the cost effectiveness of a additive.

 

[TooSlick]

I'm not claiming that use of PI reduces wear rates, simply that it appears from lots of emperical data to improve the solvency of the fuel and reduce oxidative thickening of the oil. If I stop using it for a prolonged period, my vehicles simply don't run as smoothly and fuel efficiency drops slightly. I suppose it could be a placebo effect, but I honestly don' think so.

In the samples I've listed,oxidation was at or below 40% of the allowable limit. Even the sample of the Series 3000 only had 38% oxidation after 21,000 miles and two full years of use.

TS

 

[pinoy99]

quote:

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Originally posted by FowVay:
....with Neutra you add 10 times this amount (1 oz per gallon).

This is something to consider when figuring the cost effectiveness of a additive.

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Actually the 12 oz #131 can be used to treat 10-20 gal(per bottle instruction) but per above the PI treats 6x as much tho the price is 3-4.5 more than the 131.

 

[Spector]

I can check my invoice at home later but the current Amsoil catalogue has a 16 oz bottle of PI at $7.55 (retail, not dealer or preferred customer) and 12 of the 16 oz bottles at $89.40. The gallon at $62 still seems about right but I will have to confirm that later as this is equal to 8 of the 16 oz bottles at $7.55 each. $42 is maybe direct jobber cost but not the ave customer.

The web site has a gallon at $52.95 plus shipping and or sales tax depending on how you obtain the product.

[ October 27, 2003, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]

 

[userfriendly]

GSV
Thanks for the reply, but which of the 5% are good products and which belong in the 95% catagory?
Everyone, especilly the people who may financially benefit, claim that their products are in the 5% column, and the 95% are the other guys.

So who do you believe?
With additives:
When in doubt, leave it out.
With oil change intervals:
When in doubt, change it out.

 

[TooSlick]

UF,

I've worked as a mechanical/materials engineer for twenty years ... I run PI in my personal vehicles and lawn/garden equipment. I believe I understand how to set up a controlled test.

I wouldn't use the stuff if it didn't work ...

Tooslick

 

[msparks]

quote:

---

Originally posted by userfriendly:
You know, its funny....most people never put added junk in their car's gas tanks except gasoline, never put anything in the engine except oil and never have problems.
Then one reads these forums and determines that most, if not all gasoline and engine oil additives are a rip-off.
Save your money folks, you don't need them.

---

I can't say that PI is a rip off. My proof is that El Paso TX has emissions testing. I have a retail account which has no MLM dealer ties to Amsoil or the Religeous zelous that most dealers do. They are just a retailer plain and simple.

When testing cars for emissions and don't pass, they issue them 1 bottle of PI, for about $15(yes they are making a huge profit(maybe they are the ones getting rich MR. FRIENDLY) the car then has 1 week to comeback and get a re check for free, at which time they usually pass.

I had an order earlier this year from this account for 20 cases of PI, in less than 4 months I had another smaller order.

Now if the car still doens't pass then then get a Power Foam Treatment which will usually fix their problem.

So does PI help?? I think in 99.999999999999% of the time yes, it will keep your fuel system running in top condition, while lubricating your injector pump and seals.

Sorry to be so confrontational, Really I'm a nice guy