Working on BMW's.......

[OVERKILL]

So, being somewhat new to BMW ownership (M5 last August), I've only had a chance to do a few things (CPS, oil changes...etc, basic stuff) on them so far.

So doing the plugs on the 328i on Monday, I didn't quite know what to expect going in. It's a longitudinally-mounted straight-6 in a small car, I thought it might be difficult. I thought, like on the Expedition, that there might be accessibility issues.

So, not trying to be corny, but what I didn't expect was what I am now going to refer to as "German Engineering©".

I'm sure everybody has worked on their vehicle and at some point you ask "what in the heck were these people THINKING???" when trying to do something. Be it fear of breaking a clip, having to bend something out of the way to gain access, scratching your arm, contorting your hand/arm/body....etc. Or just cursing as you sit on top of the engine trying to get the plugs out of a 6" deep plug well that has fuel rails, A/C and coolant hoses running over top of it (Ford, I'm talking about you!).

Have you ever wondered what it would be like to work on a car designed by "car people"? I think older (pre "we don't need a dipstock because they are silly!") BMW's may be those cars. And no, I'm not trying to paint some idealistic view of BMW, they have had their fair share of moments too, but I DO think that in general, they put a lot more thought into how things go together and come apart than any other make I've ever worked on, and I've pretty much worked on them all except Mercedes.

For example, doing the CPS on the M5:

1. Remove two metal (they are huge) clips that hold the air filter in the cabin air filter box.

2. Remove box assembly.

3. Rotate cabin air tube assembly up 45 degrees. Slide out.

4. Remove 10mm bolt (they are all 10mm) to disconnect the wire guide.

5. Remove 10mm bolt holding CPS in place.

6. Remove CPS


It is all in "layers".

So, doing the plugs on the 328:

1. Remove cabin air filter: 3x spring-loaded twist clips

2. Remove wire guide cover and power wire/washer feed from filter tray.

3. Remove cabin air filter tray (the entire tray assembly comes off as a unit with 4x torx screws). This gives you complete uninhibited access to the top of the engine.

4. Remove bolt covers from engine cover

5. Remove 2x 10mm bolts and 2x 10mm nuts

6. Remove oil filler cap

7. Remove engine cover assembly. Replace oil cap.

8. Lift metal clip, slide power feed plug from coil (no breakable plastic clips)

9. Remove 2x 10mm bolts from coil assembly. Lift out coil. Remove spark plug. Repeat x5.


It wasn't the least complex spark plug job I've ever done due to the "layers" of things that had to be removed, but it was the most bloody logical one I've ever done on a "modern" car. The covers prevented ANY dirt or dust from getting near the coils, everything under there was spotless. There was only 1-size of fastener for anything that needed to come off and the entire job only took about 20 minutes because everything just came apart like it was supposed to.

Now, I've gone through some of the TIS documents and this appears to be "par for the course" with BMW. There is a layered approach to any job on the vehicle and it is all very methodic and well thought out as to how each task is to be performed. It is almost a tad anally retentive to be honest.

So, am I nuts, or has anybody else worked on a BMW and noticed the same thing? I'm not complaining, I think it is great, it is just very foreign to me (pardon the pun).

 

[jaj]

Hmmm... changing the plugs on the M5 is even easier. Your experience and mine are similar. BMW's are put together with considerable thought about how to fix them if they break or to service them. Once you understand the logic, you can work on any of them and they're all pretty much the same.

Back, somewhere in the early 70's, I took a BMW 2-liter slant-4 engine apart. It was the original Alex Von Falkenhausen four-banger that was carried forward into the 2002, although in my case it was from an earlier model, the 2000TI. What was truly remarkable was the simplicity of the assembly and the remarkably small number of fasteners that held it together.

 

[fsskier]

I bought a BMW 1600-2 brand new in 1967, this is the only car that I can brag that I did all the service and repairs on. I owned it for 13 years, until it was T boned by a red light runner.

The "deepest jobs" that I did was the throw out bearing.... twice. Mine failed at about 14,000 miles, in the days of a 12,000 mile warranty. I quickly flipped in a new one, a couple of months later the dealer told me that a new upgraded bearing was now being installed on an extended warranty. The factory agreed to send me an upgraded bearing...... did not need to install it until about 100,000 miles. The clutch was not even half worn at that time, so left everything else alone.

One rear wheel bearing, some brakes, shocks, universal joints and of course lots of plugs and points (remember those) rounded out the total repairs, along with new bearings and brushes in the starter and generator. Remember when we could get those rebuild kits cheap?? One Flex Joint ( a sort of Ujoint) was manufactured/repaired/rebuilt by me in a hand dug pit in the Mexican jungle on Christmas day, 1968.

Incidentally, this car cost me $2700 new, I received 2500 dollars on the insurance settlement 13 years later when it was totaled out. And I kept the car, partially rebuilt it and used it for a while before selling to an enthusiastic hobbyist.

fsskier

 

[nleksan]

Having taken apart that same 2.8L motor, down to every last nut and bolt, I can say that not a single piece was lost or misplaced, and it is the only time I have done "deep" work on a car where there was not one single issue. Working on my friends 1.8T was a nightmare, and took twice the time for 1/4th the work...

 

[Dakota1820]

I've never worked on a BMW never had to. But I dated a girl and am still great friends with her. Her dad would only buy BMW's. They had over 500k on the one they just have to her brother and it hasn't even hit beater status. There is a tiny tear in driver seat everything else is still perfect. They're good cars. I personally owned a 88 190e with the 2.6 Mercedes........God I hated that car. It was comfortable but parts are ridiculous for it and it had some oddly designed fuel system that I knew nothing about and one might in my way home from work the heater core exploded all over my leg and steamed up the car so quick I couldnt see nothing. It was pretty scary to say the least at 1am thank God no one was on the road. When the heater core blew up it got something wet and it wouldnt start back up till the next day. So I walked a mile home and walked back to it the next day. I remember doing the window switches and it wouldn't start with them unplugged. I hated that car so much. I look back and laugh now but at the time I was miserable. I traded that car for a 92 f250 5sp 300 i6 awesome truck . Got stuck everywhere but it was a beast

 

[rationull]

Not to diminish the general point - because I've read your posts on the "layers" concept before and it does sound really nice - but plugs on a DOHC inline engine had *better* be east!

 

[JHZR2]

Done a lot of underhood stuff on the M42 over the last few weeks. Generally I'd say yes, but to pull the alternator I needed so many different size wrenches and sockets, it was somewhat annoying.

I can do darn near anything on my MB with a 13mm wrench.

So the alt on the BMW, which is in a convenient spot, not some stupid underneath, upside down mount, took a few hours while it takes about 15 min, including break, on my s10.

 

[meangreen01]

I've often considered buying a BMW, but the same (perhaps unwarranted) criticisms have been floating around forever: Ridiculous part costs/availability, ridiculous dealer service rates(which seems odd if they are indeed so straightforward to work on), extensive maintenance(cooling system, all of it).

So what's with the rap BMW's will kill you on ownership costs? Obviously, being able to turn your own wrenches helps stay away from the dealer service dept., but what about the others?

 

[calvin1]

Above all though the thing that has surprised me over and over with my beater E34 is the parts availability. I have yet to find any part that wasn't readily available and for a decent price. I even have options! I can get things online from a couple of vendors and have them in three or four days. I can also walk into the dealer and have them in hand in the early afternoon as long as I order before 9:00am (they have NOTHING on hand for the E34 but I can't really blame them). Parts costs are only marginally higher than what I was paying for the Taurus or Bronco.

One of the really nice things about NOT working on a domestic anymore is that ALL the hardware is metric. Maybe it's changed in the last 5 years (I doubt it) but all the Chevys and Fords I've worked on going back into the 80s were a mad mix of ASE and metric. Also, there are very few Torx or phillips heads in my car: cap screws FTW.

I don't know what the dealer's rates are so I can't help you there. I'd probably take it to the import specialist across town anyway. OTOH, I do get a kick out of stomping through their "BMW Lifestyle Center" on the way to the parts counter in my tattered Carharts. Your CPS, sir.

 

[eljefino]

You explain well what I tried to explain in the "ford vs chevy" thread a while back.

You get used to the engineering of something then you appreciate working on it.

BMW is nice b/c of their consistency of carline. Lots of RWD, I-6 and each new generation is evolution, not revolution. Saturn s-series (yeah I always talk about the critters) started with a blank sheet of paper and you find adequate clearance for lots of things.

You can tell when a car is a kludge when they shove some random other powertrain in, or cobble a 4wd system later. Look at a 98 pontiac sunfire, the water outlet is a two foot long contorted metal pipe that lines the passenger side of the engine up with the driver's side radiator nipple: what were they thinking??!!! The alternator and starter mounting on same 2.2 engine are a miserable mishmosh of braces and different size fasteners. It's like they knocked the supplier price down on "funny shaped alternators" then had to deal with them...

 

[ron917]

Changing plugs on a 1997 Honda Civic:

1. Open the hood.

2. Pull wire off of first plug.

3. Remove plug.

4. Install new plug.

5. Connect wire to new plug

6. Repeat steps 2 thru 5 three more times.

7. Close hood.

No layers, nothing in the way, no extra stuff to remove to gain access. That's how it should be.

My 2003 Pontiac Montana is a good example of how NOT to do it. I cannot reach the rear bank of plugs. Even following the service manual, which has you remove the wiper mechanism, unbolt 2 of the motor mounts and roll the engine forward. I just can't get my arm back there. On that vehicle, the first step in changing out the front struts is "Remove windshield wiper arms." [censored]?

 

[Trav]

Quote:
It wasn't the least complex spark plug job I've ever done due to the "layers" of things that had to be removed

Using sub frames not engine cradles certainly helps in the way they are serviced because it has to be assembled in the car, not just thrown in from underneath.

Not shoehorning it in the engine bay sure helps too. American cars from decades ago were built similar, big engine bay and engines installed from the top.
They wasn't much you couldn't get at in a 455 Electra or Riviera or a 429 Grand Marquis and the rest of the large bodied cars.

The BMW and Mercedes are wonderful to work on, they are well thought out for servicing even if the engine bay is small and the engine large there may be lots to remove but its as you say "layered".

 

[HerrStig]

I ride a BMW bike which I like, but to tighten the sidestand machine screw one has to remove the exhaust header on that side.
BTw there is a certain problem with older 323 transmission mounts a buddy of mine who restores them is REAL torqued off about.

 

[cchase]

I lost a chunk of faith in "German Engineering" when I had to pull off a big plastic cowl under the engine of an E46 attached with some rusty screws on a winter day, with a pile of sand falling in my face, just to access the oil drain plug.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: ron917
Changing plugs on a 1997 Honda Civic:

1. Open the hood.

2. Pull wire off of first plug.

3. Remove plug.

4. Install new plug.

5. Connect wire to new plug

6. Repeat steps 2 thru 5 three more times.

7. Close hood.

No layers, nothing in the way, no extra stuff to remove to gain access. That's how it should be.

My 2003 Pontiac Montana is a good example of how NOT to do it. I cannot reach the rear bank of plugs. Even following the service manual, which has you remove the wiper mechanism, unbolt 2 of the motor mounts and roll the engine forward. I just can't get my arm back there. On that vehicle, the first step in changing out the front struts is "Remove windshield wiper arms." [censored]?


That is the same process as on the Focus, which is a laterally mounted i4 as well. This is a longitudinally mounted i6, not quite the same thing and why I was somewhat surprised by the "process".

Try and picture a longitudinally mounted i6 in the engine bay of your Civic and you'll get an idea of what I was sort of expecting.

That being said, IIRC, a newer Nissan requires in the intake manifold to be removed on their i4 to change the plugs. That is nuts.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: cchase
I lost a chunk of faith in "German Engineering" when I had to pull off a big plastic cowl under the engine of an E46 attached with some rusty screws on a winter day, with a pile of sand falling in my face, just to access the oil drain plug.


Why didn't you just use the access cover?????

 

[cchase]

There is no access cover. I figured it would be easy since the E90 I normally work on has a nice little access door with a 1/4 turn nut.

But to go to the E90, then I tell the world "no, I'm too stupid to understand the complicated German Engineering and swap a battery."

 

[OVERKILL]

Did it have an aftermarket belly pan? Both of ours have the access panel.

Yes, the E90 is a little different, LOL! NO DIPSTICK FOR YOU!

 

[cchase]

To be honest, I don't know if it is aftermarket or not. But going by the general condition of the car, I doubt anything has been replaced.

Between the E46 and E90, I'm pretty split. If only they could have kept the good on the E46 and brought it to an E90.

 

[OVERKILL]

It just strikes me as odd, as we now have two E46's in the family (the 2000 328i and a 2003 330i) and both have the access panel. I was under the impression that BMW had been using the panel or an access hole of some sort forever, which is why your comment threw me for a loop.

Yes, the E46/E90 thing appears to be a sort of "hot topic" with many people's opinions being quite polar.