Hi everyone, Newbie here from Malta! (europe)
Introductions first .. I have a 1999 JDM Honda S2000 with Mugen ECU, Mugen cooling mods, Mugen exhaust and Spoon throttle body.
In Malta there is only one type of petrol/gas fuel available. It should be 95 RON but in reality its probably closer to 92 RON (87 AKI)
My S2000, being JDM, has a compression ratio of 11.7 .. and added to the advanced timing of the Mugen ECU, resulted in "low speed knock" on multiple occassions.
For example, going uphill at 2-3000 rpm .. more than 50% throttle results in audible knocking.
Its worth mentioning that the Mugen ECU ignores all sensors (knock sensor, O2 sensors etc), so it always runs the engine with advanced timing (and lean mixtures), regardless if it is knocking or not. This, I think, is the reason why it is sold as a "Racing Only ECU". It is designed for Japanese N1 Races, where obviously there will not be any low-octane fuel problems.
I tried running my car on pump gas and on the OEM ECU ... it works really bad .. there is no knock, true (because it retards the timing) - but there are way too many flat spots .. and immediate hesitation on WOT .. it does not feel like an S2000 any more.
And its understandable .. my car is JDM, designed to be run on 100 RON .. and I am using 91 RON.
Someone on the S2KI forum recommended Toluene - I managed to find a chemical supply store locally and bought some.
At first, I tested the toluene mixture with the stock ECU ..
When I had a ~20% toluene mix, after an ECU reset, the engine felt perfectly fine on the stock ECU. Not as responsive as the Mugen ECU, obviously .. but there were no flat spots and no particular hesitation. So this confirmed that it was running very low on octane on standard pump gas.
Then I put in the Mugen ECU, and this time mixed toluene with our fuel at around 25%. Knocking was reduced by a great margin. I did some "acid tests" I like to call them ... using WOT on steep uphills in higher-than-usual gears (2 to 3,000 rpm) .. with no audible knock whatsoever.
So, I am very pleased with toluene
PS: I've also been experimenting with octane boosters, and have found that TORCO accelerator works fine, BUT ... it contains MMT. And I've found out that MMT will foul the plugs and is not recommended, especially for a street car. And I also looked into mixing race gas with pump gas .. but it will turn out wayyyy too expensive to make a mixture to reach 100 RON, because race gas available locally is very expensive. about 4x the price of normal gas .. and I would have to use a 50-50 mixture.
So back to toluene ...
The only problem I see is this -- a lot of websites say that you should add some cleaning agents and lubricating agents when using more than 20% toluene.
They recommend "mineral sprits" (or DIESEL) as cleaning agents, and Marvel mystery oil (or ATF) as lubricating agents.
Well ... I dont know what mineral spirits are ... and I really dont trust the contents of local diesel fuel .. so I didnt add any cleaning agents.
But I did add 150ml of ATF Dexron 2 with every 5 litres of toluene used.
I am now thinking of using 2-cycle oil instead of ATF, as this was specifically designed to lubricate the upper cylinder parts ... but will it also help to keep the rubber seals etc from drying?
Also .. what can I use as cleaning agents? A friend of mine said that I shouldnt use diesel because diesel has sulpher, and the molecules of sulpher can bond with those of toluene and create "solids" ... I have no idea about chemistry so I dont really know what he's on about
So I guess my question is this ... what should I add to the mixture to make the final product as safe as possible to my fuel system and my engine? is 150mls of ATF to 5litres of toluene (my current mixture) OK?
Or is it better to use 2-cycle oil instead? And in what dosage? And should I use any cleaning fluids?
(MMO is not available locally so I have to rule that out)
Any help would be appreciated !! Thanks in advance
Introductions first .. I have a 1999 JDM Honda S2000 with Mugen ECU, Mugen cooling mods, Mugen exhaust and Spoon throttle body.
In Malta there is only one type of petrol/gas fuel available. It should be 95 RON but in reality its probably closer to 92 RON (87 AKI)
My S2000, being JDM, has a compression ratio of 11.7 .. and added to the advanced timing of the Mugen ECU, resulted in "low speed knock" on multiple occassions.
For example, going uphill at 2-3000 rpm .. more than 50% throttle results in audible knocking.
Its worth mentioning that the Mugen ECU ignores all sensors (knock sensor, O2 sensors etc), so it always runs the engine with advanced timing (and lean mixtures), regardless if it is knocking or not. This, I think, is the reason why it is sold as a "Racing Only ECU". It is designed for Japanese N1 Races, where obviously there will not be any low-octane fuel problems.
I tried running my car on pump gas and on the OEM ECU ... it works really bad .. there is no knock, true (because it retards the timing) - but there are way too many flat spots .. and immediate hesitation on WOT .. it does not feel like an S2000 any more.
And its understandable .. my car is JDM, designed to be run on 100 RON .. and I am using 91 RON.
Someone on the S2KI forum recommended Toluene - I managed to find a chemical supply store locally and bought some.
At first, I tested the toluene mixture with the stock ECU ..
When I had a ~20% toluene mix, after an ECU reset, the engine felt perfectly fine on the stock ECU. Not as responsive as the Mugen ECU, obviously .. but there were no flat spots and no particular hesitation. So this confirmed that it was running very low on octane on standard pump gas.
Then I put in the Mugen ECU, and this time mixed toluene with our fuel at around 25%. Knocking was reduced by a great margin. I did some "acid tests" I like to call them ... using WOT on steep uphills in higher-than-usual gears (2 to 3,000 rpm) .. with no audible knock whatsoever.
So, I am very pleased with toluene
PS: I've also been experimenting with octane boosters, and have found that TORCO accelerator works fine, BUT ... it contains MMT. And I've found out that MMT will foul the plugs and is not recommended, especially for a street car. And I also looked into mixing race gas with pump gas .. but it will turn out wayyyy too expensive to make a mixture to reach 100 RON, because race gas available locally is very expensive. about 4x the price of normal gas .. and I would have to use a 50-50 mixture.
So back to toluene ...
The only problem I see is this -- a lot of websites say that you should add some cleaning agents and lubricating agents when using more than 20% toluene.
They recommend "mineral sprits" (or DIESEL) as cleaning agents, and Marvel mystery oil (or ATF) as lubricating agents.
Well ... I dont know what mineral spirits are ... and I really dont trust the contents of local diesel fuel .. so I didnt add any cleaning agents.
But I did add 150ml of ATF Dexron 2 with every 5 litres of toluene used.
I am now thinking of using 2-cycle oil instead of ATF, as this was specifically designed to lubricate the upper cylinder parts ... but will it also help to keep the rubber seals etc from drying?
Also .. what can I use as cleaning agents? A friend of mine said that I shouldnt use diesel because diesel has sulpher, and the molecules of sulpher can bond with those of toluene and create "solids" ... I have no idea about chemistry so I dont really know what he's on about
So I guess my question is this ... what should I add to the mixture to make the final product as safe as possible to my fuel system and my engine? is 150mls of ATF to 5litres of toluene (my current mixture) OK?
Or is it better to use 2-cycle oil instead? And in what dosage? And should I use any cleaning fluids?
(MMO is not available locally so I have to rule that out)
Any help would be appreciated !! Thanks in advance
