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#2258202 - 05/11/11 07:34 PM Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN
btanchors Offline


Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 570
Loc: Herndon, VA
Here's a VOA of another Mobil 1 SN rated product - this time it's Mobil 1 5W-30 EP SN. Note that the additive package has changed, but very similar to Mobil 1 0W-20 SN, in that it uses a combination of Calcium and Magnesium for detergent additives. I am also shocked at the high TAN! TBN also lower than previous Mobil 1 5W-30 EP. For comparison purposes, see the link to the recent Mobil 1 0W-20 SN here. Enjoy!


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#2258215 - 05/11/11 07:40 PM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29197
Loc: NJ
Thanks for sharing this. Confirms the 0w20 was right. I'll be curious to see what Ultra and Amsoil look like. Using more Mg and less Calcium reduces the sulfated ash per Tbn level.

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2014 Mazda 3 S GT AT - OE oil
2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

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#2258241 - 05/11/11 08:09 PM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
Artem Offline


Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 4372
Loc: Florida
^I'm getting ready to send off a Virgin sample of Amsoil's new AZO 0w30

Anyone know if there's a VOA of SSO using B_S labs?

BTW, thanks for posting the report, btanchors.
_________________________
2011 Toyota Avalon Limited 3.5L V6 - 52k - 5w30 Mobil 1

2014 RAM 3500HD work truck

2014 Mazda 3 hatch i Touring 2.0L & 6spd - Mobil 1 0w30

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#2258343 - 05/11/11 09:26 PM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
JasonBraswell Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 122
Loc: Mckinney, TX
Man I sure do not understand what all this hype about the "SN" oil is all about. Every VOA seems to show less additives, which seems like we are being sold less robust oil. Can somebody explain this confusion?


*I'm glad I have a 5qt jug of fresh "SM" EP in my garage.
_________________________
99 Toyota LandCruiser OEM Filter(90915-20004) M1 HM 5w-30
06 Lexus LS 430 OEM Filter(90915-20004) M1 AFE 0w-30

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#2258476 - 05/12/11 12:31 AM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
ltslimjim Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 5143
Loc: PL&F
I tend to wonder too, if the product quality drops enough after UOAs and wear metal comparisons etc. I hope Amsoil's SSO lineup didn't nose dive. Get that VOA back please, Artem! :thumbsups: grin2

drive
_________________________
1992 Civic VX 275k+
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#2258524 - 05/12/11 03:35 AM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
gib Offline


Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 161
Loc: A Tropical Isle
Huh. Kind of surprising to see a member of the EP product line have a TBN under 10. We'll see how it performs in extended use soon enough, hopefully.

Thanks for having this VOA done!

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#2258683 - 05/12/11 09:04 AM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
addyguy Offline


Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 13429
Loc: Canada
Its very, very simple what is happening.

Mg is a lot less expensive as a detergent than Ca-based detergents. Makes the add-pack less expensive.

As long as you have a TBN above 9, most oils will do 10-12k with ease - they assume once you get into the 14-15k range, you've had to top-off some oil, and refresh it.

Thanks for posting this!
_________________________
2003 Mazda Tribute LX V-6, 172k miles.
Oil: QS Defy 5W-20; Fram Ultra XG2 filter.

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#2258782 - 05/12/11 11:19 AM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29197
Loc: NJ
I don't think it's that simple. They are reducing the SA. Mobil 1, like other advanced oils are a complex cocktail of many additives and base oils, many of which don't show up via VOA.
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2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

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#2258785 - 05/12/11 11:21 AM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29197
Loc: NJ
Cheapening is a poor word to use. I would suspect that these new formulations are better, not worse. Oils generally get better over time, not worse.
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2014 Mazda 3 S GT AT - OE oil
2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

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#2258788 - 05/12/11 11:23 AM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29197
Loc: NJ
Time will tell if the TBN retention is up to par vs the initial higher TBN of years passed. Ca is on the way out.
_________________________
2014 Mazda 3 S GT AT - OE oil
2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

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#2259613 - 05/13/11 01:11 AM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
ltslimjim Offline


Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 5143
Loc: PL&F
I agree with some of what addguy and buster are communicating...btw, by wear metals in reality I mean actual wear not necessarily what a UOA may/may not be 'indicating'.

I question and I ponder, but I still have general faith in the product lineups, but will scrutinize. Hopefully, this 'thing' that is being under review will get a better eye to review it. I'm still learning and it's still all guess work in a lot of areas anyway, at least from my end. laugh
_________________________
1992 Civic VX 275k+
HG replaced, waiting to sample

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#2260688 - 05/14/11 08:50 AM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
buster Offline


Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 29197
Loc: NJ
On paper, this oil obviously looks weak compared to past formulations, but additives change and improve. Many are just not showing up in these VOA's. Pennzoil and Amsoil are using 200ppm of boron and 3000ppm of calcium. That is an additive package that's been used for the last 5 years in many different oils. Assuming it's the same type of boron, which it may not be. Calcium probably is.

UOA's will be the judge.
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2014 Mazda 3 S GT AT - OE oil
2003 Forester XS 5spd - M1 0w40

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#2261011 - 05/14/11 03:43 PM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
JasonBraswell Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 122
Loc: Mckinney, TX
If you look at the new PDS M1 EP PDS , it's evident they are thinning out the oils to meet GF-5 fuel economy requirements with lower HTHS and viscosity. This oil is now thinner than the 0w-30.
Based on the UOA they are reducing additives also. Thinner oil with less additives seems to = a less quality oil, but I ain't no expert popcorn
_________________________
99 Toyota LandCruiser OEM Filter(90915-20004) M1 HM 5w-30
06 Lexus LS 430 OEM Filter(90915-20004) M1 AFE 0w-30

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#2261347 - 05/14/11 11:03 PM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
tig1 Offline


Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 9854
Loc: Illinois
Have you noticed EP oils are still warranteed for 15K by XM? Outside of running the oil for 200K and more, there is no way of knowing how the oil will perform in the engine.
_________________________
2007 Ford Fusion 144,000 miles
M1 0-20
2007 Ford Focus 129,000 miles
M1 0-20
10,000 mile OCIs on both engines
M1 ATF
M1 10-30 in all OPE

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#2261993 - 05/15/11 06:43 PM Re: Mobil 1 5W-30 EP, SN Rated with TBN and TAN [Re: btanchors]
MolaKule Offline


Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 14643
Loc: Midwest
Quote:
Man I sure do not understand what all this hype about the "SN" oil is all about. Every VOA seems to show less additives, which seems like we are being sold less robust oil. Can somebody explain this confusion?



There is more than "meets the eye" in these new formulations and robustness has nothing to do with the lack of metallic-based additives.

What you are NOT seeing, and as I predicted over two years ago, is that there are non-metallic, totally organic chemical compounds not being seen in these types of analyses that do the job of formerly all metallic additives.

Judge the quality by using at least three fills of the oil in question with at least three UOA's and get some trending data. Trending, not one snapshot, is what you need to see if the engine and oil are playing well together. And use no third-party additives during the trending or you will defeat the test with a third variable in which you have no idea how it affects the trending.


Edited by MolaKule (05/15/11 06:48 PM)
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