BG109, MOA & Varnish Removal

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Hello. I'm new here and this is my first post.

I have a 98 Volvo V70 turbo wagon with ~163k mi I've owned for 11 years. It's only had syn oil in her since the warranty expired ~ 50k mi. I'd leave it in for ~10k mi. and change the filter every 5k. I'm in central Tx where it's hot & humid!

A few months back, I noticed when checking my oil level it smelled strongly of gas. I'd had M1 in there for about 8k mi. No CEL. No vacuum leaks that I knew of. No smoke pouring out of the dipstick tube when removed either.

So I dumped the oil & filter, and filled with Castrol dino oil (it was on sale) until I could figure out what's going on. I soon discovered that the large rigid vacuum line that runs from the intake pipe to the oil separator box for the crankcase vent system, had become fossilized and very brittle! One end broke off in my hand when I removed the intake pipe for inspection. Unfortunately, it's wrapped in an outer sheath so I couldn't visually inspect it over time. Obviously, it needed replacing.

Yesterday, I pulled the intake manifold, and replaced all the vacuum lines, oil sep. box, etc having to do with the crankcase breather system. Nothing was plugged up fortunately as these cars have a reputation for either pushing the oil dipstick out of the tube or worse, blowing the rear-main seal, which is a very expensive fix!

Even the newly changed Castrol was stinking of gas. Before dumping it, I did a compression test to eliminate any ring problems. Measured 175 psi on all 5 cylinders. Remarkably consistent actually . . .

I dumped a can of BG109 into the warm engine, let it circulate for 15 min. then dumped it. Also drained the oil cooler. Added a can of MOA and 1-1/2 qrts of M1 I have left over and filled up the rest with Penzoil Platinum syn (due to the great reports of its cleaning properties I gleaned from here).

When I look inside the oil cap on the valve cover, it's deep amber inside. No black. Frankly, I thought syn oil would prevent this. Guess not. I also thought the 109 would remove some of this, but perhaps it just softens it up for the detergents in the new oil & MOA to work on? Time will tell.

I took a photo down the oil filler neck. Will see if it's lightened up in a couple thousand miles or so.

I have read of ARx. I used BG because of my familiarity with 44K, which I use ~ 30k mi or so. Last summer I used Red Line Si-1 instead. When I pulled the intake manifold, I noticed all the intake valves were very clean.

At this point, I'm not sure if it's possible or even advisible to expect a significant reduction in the varnish I see. Maybe it's not a problem. I don't like the look of it, but maybe it doesn't matter either. The compression test has eased my mind on anything ring-related.

I DO have some clicking/snapping sounds going on in my engine that I thought was lifter related. Always have. I didn't think anything of it until hearing another car of similiar year that was MUCH quieter. THEN I started noticing. It'll be interesting to see if it quiets down with the 109/MOA/Penzoil Plat combination over time.

I haven't dropped the oil pan ever. Heard it's a PITA! Read somewhere about o-rings need replacing in the pan when the lifters are noisy. Maybe someone will chime in on this.

Well, that's my long post. Have already learned quite a bit by doing lots of reading here. Glad to have found this forum!
 
M.O.A is b-g's version of stp. It does not much more than fortify oil. we had a uoa of it somewhere. I am a huge b-g fan ,but not as a crank case cleaner. 109 is a quick cleaner. Not what u want for old varnish either.
I would stick with pp or m-1 ep over the long haul and add some mmo for extra cleaning on the last 1000 miles of a oil change. b-g is best for fuel systems, cleaning intakes , and trans flushes if done right.
 
Originally Posted By: chad8
M.O.A is b-g's version of stp. It does not much more than fortify oil. we had a uoa of it somewhere. I am a huge b-g fan ,but not as a crank case cleaner. 109 is a quick cleaner. Not what u want for old varnish either.
I would stick with pp or m-1 ep over the long haul and add some mmo for extra cleaning on the last 1000 miles of a oil change. b-g is best for fuel systems, cleaning intakes , and trans flushes if done right.


BG MOA is a lot different then STP, it has a ton of calcium in it as well as zome zinc and phosphorus and it is also not thick.
 
Welcome. I enjoyed reading your story. More frequent oil change intervals may help lessen the varnish. But the question comes up of whether that is worth the extra cost and hassle.
 
Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr
Originally Posted By: chad8
M.O.A is b-g's version of stp. It does not much more than fortify oil. we had a uoa of it somewhere. I am a huge b-g fan ,but not as a crank case cleaner. 109 is a quick cleaner. Not what u want for old varnish either.
I would stick with pp or m-1 ep over the long haul and add some mmo for extra cleaning on the last 1000 miles of a oil change. b-g is best for fuel systems, cleaning intakes , and trans flushes if done right.


BG MOA is a lot different then STP, it has a ton of calcium in it as well as zome zinc and phosphorus and it is also not thick.


I know , but i was trying to explain that to a noob. I am using some in an old corolla my kids have with 200000. It is an oil fortifier and yes , it is not a viscosity improver. We do think the zinc will help lower bearing surfaces stay protected.
What I was getting at was the fact that moa is not what you want to use for cleaning varnish. That got lost in a short answer.With today's oil I am not convinced it is needed ,but my buddy mechanic who does my oil changes at his shop with bulk dino had some in his tool box. I like free!!
 
Originally Posted By: JAG
Welcome. I enjoyed reading your story. More frequent oil change intervals may help lessen the varnish. But the question comes up of whether that is worth the extra cost and hassle.


Thanks! Since I'm not sure how long my PCV system has been malfunctioning, I don't know the extent it's affected the 10k mi oil intervals. While the oil has always come out quite black after 10k mi., it didn't come out stinking like gas till recently.


I take some confidence in the level & consistency of the comp. tests, together with mpg and performance numbers.

It'll be interesting to monitor this oil change over the next 5k mi. I'm curious to see if the lifter tick ever goes away. So far none of the various oil's I've tried has helped.
 
I'm with postjeeprcr, MOA is definitely NOT stp.

Given that, I have heard conflicting info of just what it's supposed to do. "It's an oil fortifier", "It's a long term cleaner", "It has lots of detergent in it", "It'll keep your oil from getting too thick", "It'll protect your engine from residual 109 you weren't able to get out" . . and on and on and on . . .

Frankly, I thought the 109 would do more cleaning, regarding varnish removal. Maybe it has, I just can't see it without pulling the pan or the valve cover. I did want to rinse out as much of the old gas-smelling-oil as possible before the new oil went in. If it helped with that, good!
 
Originally Posted By: postjeeprcr
Originally Posted By: chad8
M.O.A is b-g's version of stp. It does not much more than fortify oil. we had a uoa of it somewhere. I am a huge b-g fan ,but not as a crank case cleaner. 109 is a quick cleaner. Not what u want for old varnish either.
I would stick with pp or m-1 ep over the long haul and add some mmo for extra cleaning on the last 1000 miles of a oil change. b-g is best for fuel systems, cleaning intakes , and trans flushes if done right.


BG MOA is a lot different then STP, it has a ton of calcium in it as well as zome zinc and phosphorus and it is also not thick.


I agree with postjeeprcr too.
 
With 163k, consistent compression reaings, you have nothing to worry about if there's a bit of varnish in the engine....
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
With 163k, consistent compression reaings, you have nothing to worry about if there's a bit of varnish in the engine....


+1

If Varnish is the only problem with a good running [consistant compression readings] 163,000 mile engine, I'd so you have no problems.
 
I thought I would post a brief update since my original post.

Evidently the BG109 added to the old oil and allowed to circulate for ~ 15 min before draining was much more effective in cleaning/rinsing out the internals than just draining the old oil and adding in new.

I now have 986mi. on the new oil, it is still a clear amber and doesn't reak of gas.

Previously, just dumping the old oil and refilling with new resulted in oil that turned black within days and reaked of gas.

No doubt that replacing the broken vac. lines in the PCV system has helped as well.

Regarding MOA, I'm now questioning whether it's necessary when used with synthetic oil. I'd never used it before and only did so because I was told 'it's a good follow up to a 109 flush'. OK. Fine. Maybe more suitable as an additive to dino oil than syn?

BTW, I had a [censored]-of-a-time finding 109, especially by itself, locally. I wound up calling ~ 15 businesses. Most had MOA and their other products. Few had 109. I wound up buying it from a gas station I sometimes frequent that wasn't even on BG's list!

I called the area distributer, and asked for the local reps name and he returned my call. Turns out he sells 109 mostly to quick oil change places, that weren't on my list. Oh well . . .

I also ran into conflicting information from the distributer vs a mechanic. The dist said 109 would quickly evaporate inside a hot engine and that you could even drive your car while it was working! The machanic said do not drive the car after 109 has been added! Because it will practically eliminate the viscosity of the oil and not allow enough lubrication/protection for your motor.

Needless to say, I didn't drive it!

As to varnish removal, that's hard to qualify visually especially when I can only peer down the oil filler neck. When I've hit 5000 mi on the PurOne oil filter, I'll cut it open and have a look.

I'm pleased to have this all behind me!
 
Here's an update: I now have 2,560 miles on the new oil since doing the flush. I haven't needed to add a single drop. My previous oil "consumption" turned out to be a leaking engine oil cooler hose.

The oil is medium-dark brown now. I can still clearly see the level markings on the dipstick through it. Hasn't 'reaked' of gas since fixing the PCV system. Evidently by having the two main vacuum lines cracked, the combustion by-product gases remained in the crankcase and polluted the oil, quickly turning new oil black.

Since I'd been using synthetic oil for so long, none of the oil passages between the oil separator box and the crankcase nor at the PTC sensor end were plugged up. The system just quit working because the rigid vacuum lines became very, very brittle and cracked after 11 years of being so close to the engine block.

I've also picked up a few mpg!

At 5000 miles, I'll change the filter and top off the oil. I'm interested to see what the filter fabric looks like when I cut it open. I'm wondering how much stuff the BG109 loosened up.

Stay tuned!
 
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Here's an update: I now have 2,560 miles on the new oil since doing the flush. I haven't needed to add a single drop. My previous oil "consumption" turned out to be a leaking engine oil cooler hose.

The oil is medium-dark brown now. I can still clearly see the level markings on the dipstick through it. Hasn't 'reaked' of gas since fixing the PCV system. Evidently by having the two main vacuum lines cracked, the combustion by-product gases remained in the crankcase and polluted the oil, quickly turning new oil black.

Since I'd been using synthetic oil for so long, none of the oil passages between the oil separator box and the crankcase nor at the PTC sensor end were plugged up. The system just quit working because the rigid vacuum lines became very, very brittle and cracked after 11 years of being so close to the engine block.

I've also picked up a few mpg!

At 5000 miles, I'll change the filter and top off the oil. I'm interested to see what the filter fabric looks like when I cut it open. I'm wondering how much stuff the BG109 loosened up.

Stay tuned!


We are anxiously awaiting your results.
 
Latest update: I now have 3,741mi on this oil. Oil is still transparent medium-brown; can easily see dipstick marks. Haven't added a drop.

In hindsight, I realize that a 'smoke test' would have found this broken vac line much earlier. I spent hours getting greasy fingers checking as many of my vac hoses, nipples & elbows as I could, but the reality is modern cars have very complicated vac systems, particularly turbo cars. I never would have found this one without checking the PTC. I also haven't dropped the fuel tank to check those.

In older cars, a smoke test can be your friend, save you time, keep your fingernails clean, restore performance and improve your MPG.

Lesson learned. Stay tuned.
 
Well 5000 mi have finally rolled by! I've added no oil since my original post. Oil level did drop by 1/8" on the dipstick just before pulling the filter.

I carefully cut around the outside of the filter with a hacksaw, down near the opening. Then cut around both ends of the filter media to free it from the housing. At present the soaked media is laying on it's edge in the garage to drain a bit before I take photos.

Out in the Sun, the media is very, very dark brown. Completely opaque. Don't know the color of clean media. Anyone?

I am quite impressed with the internal construction of the Purolator PureOne filter! No wonder it's received high praise here.

I'll post some photos after it's dried out a bit. Stay tuned. .
 
Here are some photos:

This photo is indictative of the rest of the media from the Purolator PureOne PL14670: No chunks or globs were found anywhere. When I held it up to the Sun, it was completely opaque:

uu3PC.HsPe_lCsBrPX.zqg.jpg
**********************

This one zooms in a bit and when looking at the media, I can see tiny specs, pieces of debris. I'm assuming this is the 'dirty' side of the filter media, as I saw no debris on the opposite side.
FiF4HxzI7xxZD8zcjtZJZQ.jpg
***********************

This shows the color of the oil at 5000 mi. Previously it would have been opaque black, long before now. No black debris at all.
1.JGsb3kXVt9aEaFv.RyIg.jpg
********
Being the original fill from 5000 mi ago, with no oil added, I expect the next oil change to be cleaner at 5000 mi than this since this fill is doing the 'removal' of anything loosened/dissolved by the 109 & MOA & PP-detergent action.
 
Well it looks like Yahoo has expired all my photo links (for some odd reason...). It looked fine yesterday!

Any suggestions?
 
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