is Regular oil safe for '03 BMW?

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Today's engine ignite the fuel before it reaches top dead center to increase the overall performance and efficiency. How much can it advance is a function of the "dynamic" compression ratio (for a particular rpm and throttle / air flow) and the octane rating of the fuel.



Not to nitpick but everything since the early 1900s has ignited the fuel/air before TDC.

There are other factors that influence timing besides octane and compression though those are the big ones. EGR flow, head design, quench area, charge temperature, cam profile, etc also effect how much timing can be had. I've seen cars run extremely advanced timing on high octane and lose power because the charge was fully igniting while the piston was on it's compression stroke.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Octane needs depend on driving style. My mom can drive a super car on regs and never know the difference. If I drove it, I'd miss out on the smooth power from more advance and slower burn.Compression ratio means nothing unless you are fully charging the cylinder. ACTUAL pressures depend not on the geometric volume, but the mass of air+fuel the cyl is charged with. Pre-ignition is only approached with a completely charged cyl, via an open throttle plate.



Not completely true. There is always more timing at low load. If the timing maps were designed around premium gas it can easily knock at partial throttle. My 11.0:1 TL is notorious for part throttle/light throttle knock.



Maybe that has nothing to do with compression detonation.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Octane needs depend on driving style. My mom can drive a super car on regs and never know the difference. If I drove it, I'd miss out on the smooth power from more advance and slower burn.Compression ratio means nothing unless you are fully charging the cylinder. ACTUAL pressures depend not on the geometric volume, but the mass of air+fuel the cyl is charged with. Pre-ignition is only approached with a completely charged cyl, via an open throttle plate.



Not completely true. There is always more timing at low load. If the timing maps were designed around premium gas it can easily knock at partial throttle. My 11.0:1 TL is notorious for part throttle/light throttle knock.



Maybe that has nothing to do with compression detonation.


Explain?

Detonation is detonation whether it's from too high of a compression ratio or too much timing.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: hal
I would get the least-expensive oil that meets the specs, does not have to be synthetic

But only synthetic oil meets the "spec". There are no BMW specs currently that I'm aware of that allow for use of mineral oil.

 

[D189379]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: hal
I would get the least-expensive oil that meets the specs, does not have to be synthetic

But only synthetic oil meets the "spec". There are no BMW specs currently that I'm aware of that allow for use of mineral oil.


I'd guess that the synthetic is for the extended drains BMW recommends only. I don't buy for a second that a mineral oil won't protect a non-turbo engine for 3-5K miles.

 

[Quattro Pete]

I don't argue with that. I'm just saying, there is no "spec" for a mineral oil. The car came with an oil light that is deemed to be accurate but only if LL oil is used. BMW expects you to follow that light, hence they expect you to use LL oil.

 

[Gary Allan]

I think that we'll agree more than disagree that many oils will meet the engine's "needs". They just won't meet all of the manufacturers requirements. Those requirements may have little or nothing to do with the engine's "needs". It may be fuel economy standards indexed against longevity standards indexed against deposit standards indexed against wear standards ..........with reduced antagonistic additive levels.

Eliminate any one or more of the above qualifications, and there are a few more oils that work just fine with the rest.

 

[Tobin]

Poster: D189379
I'd guess that the synthetic is for the extended drains BMW recommends only. I don't buy for a second that a mineral oil won't protect a non-turbo engine for 3-5K miles.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I don't argue with that. I'm just saying, there is no "spec" for a mineral oil. The car came with an oil light that is deemed to be accurate but only if LL oil is used. BMW expects you to follow that light, hence they expect you to use LL oil.


What the blooody [censored]?!?!? all this time Pete you were saying mineral isn't safe and wont protect my engine even If i changed it at a regular 3-5k interval now you dont argue with that????

 

[Tobin]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Alot of good advice has been offered Tobin. By those who know oil, and those who own BMWs. Here's my final advice.

Use the correct octane. This isn't your mother's grocery getter. It's a performance machine. Lucky for you, it's out of warranty, because I've seen warranty claims denied for not using the correct octane. Read about it as well on the various Z4 forums I visit.



Just a curious question to all of you who use only premium gasoline in your cars... do you only purchase TOP TEIR gasoline as well? OR you guys dont believe in the negative effects of not using TOP TEIR gasoline?

 

[Audi Junkie]

Gas doesn't have to be Top-Tier to be good, but TT gas IS good.

As far as dino oil in Euro engines. Delo 15w-40 carried the generic ACEA A3 spec for a while. I believe DuraBlend 10w-40 did as well. Even lowly SuperTech Synth 10w-30 HM carries A3, so let's agree that it's not far out of sight for 10w-40 Blend/HM PCMO and HD oil in general. Seriously, if climate allowed, 15w-40 HD is a Euro car is a natural. 10w-40 is ideal for the type driving and ocis we (should) do in USA. fwiw, I use Delo 30 HD in my Euro apps. Delvac 1300 15w-30 ran SUPER smooth.

 

[Tobin]

So another words Im guess the majority of people who are telling me premium gas is appropriate for their cars dont believe TOP TIER gasoline is completely necessary?

Look at what I seen on motor week website which influenced me only to buy TOP TIER gasoline.

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/goss/2613.shtml

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Tobin
What the blooody [censored]?!?!? all this time Pete you were saying mineral isn't safe and wont protect my engine even If i changed it at a regular 3-5k interval now you dont argue with that????

Go back and re-read my first response in this thread. I don't think I'm contradicting myself. If you can find a mineral oil with a high enough HT/HS (3.5 or higher) in a proper grade, and are willing to change it every 3k-4k miles, then go for it.

My argument is that it doesn't make any sense from a financial standpoint, especially if you have to pay someone to change your oil. So, if it's cheaper to run synthetic and synthetic oil has better parameters (lower pour point, better flow at cold startup, higher flash point, less or no viscosity index improvers), then guess which one I'd use?

I would not use mineral oil in my engine, and that is still my general advice to you. But again, I don't really care if you follow it or not. It's your car.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Correction: Delvac 1300 15w-40.

 

[Quattro Pete]

By the way, another tip for your BMW, which I'm sure you will choose to ignore just like everything else - that lifetime fluid in your transmission refers to the lifetime of the transmission itself. So, if your transmission conks out at 120k miles, the fluid would have lasted the transmission's lifetime.

 

[Tobin]

When did i say i would ignore all the advice? I said that? The whole reason I came on here to collect information from people and make a informed decision. I thought that was obvious

Anyways, I was really confused (as I usually am about the most graded, lettered, and numbered substance on earth--motor oil) when you wrote that dino was okay...so I asked for some clarification. And obsviously your advice is valuable so only I bothered to ask you to clarify.

And thank you for the tip, BMW gave me a maintenance sheet and it says at 100k miles they drain the transmission fluid.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Tobin
And thank you for the tip, BMW gave me a maintenance sheet and it says at 100k miles they drain the transmission fluid.

Well, better late then never I guess.

Sorry about my the previous post... I say I don't care what you do with your car, but deep down I really do.

 

[Tobin]

Originally Posted By: bretfraz


Oil producers submit their products to BMW for testing and approval. You can see what oils they've approved for North America here: BMW USA oil approval document


thats good to know, thanks for the bmw approval document..

I went to Vavoline Oil Change, its like the biggest oil change chain in the country and they offer Syn Power oil change for $75 after the use of a $8 off coupon.

The overwhelming advice for the use of synthetic has helped me alot.. I especially want to thank Qauttro Pete.I think I'm going to go with that deal and when I get time I'm going try my hand at changing the oil myself.

But I wasnt sure if Valvoline SynPower had the BMW-LL01 specs... where do u guys find these documents and articles?!?!

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: Tobin
So another words Im guess the majority of people who are telling me premium gas is appropriate for their cars dont believe TOP TIER gasoline is completely necessary?

Look at what I seen on motor week website which influenced me only to buy TOP TIER gasoline.

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/goss/2613.shtml


I run Shell but would have no problem getting gas from another source occasionally. I've assumed (and it may be wrong) that there's less chance of getting the wrong grade of gas at the wrong pump. This has happened to me in my turbo car and it caused some bad problems.

I figure over the lifetime of the car, the top tier will make a difference in keeping the engine clean.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Tobin
...
I went to Vavoline Oil Change, its like the biggest oil change chain in the country and they offer Syn Power oil change for $75 after the use of a $8 off coupon.
...
But I wasnt sure if Valvoline SynPower had the BMW-LL01 specs... where do u guys find these documents and articles?!?!


Did they use Valvoline SynPower MXL 0W-30 ? I think this is the only Valvoline grade in the BMW-LL01 list. This SynPower MXL 0W-30 is very hard to find over the counter.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Tobin

But I wasnt sure if Valvoline SynPower had the BMW-LL01 specs... where do u guys find these documents and articles?!?!


http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/SyntheticEngineOils.aspx

You can sign up there. It's free.

You should also join some BMW forums, like bimmerfest