Good syn. oil needed for my Jeep
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Really? they run the OHV 3.8 in the wrangler, while they put the OHC 3.7 in the WKs and dakota? wonder why.
Is it under warranty??? Are you the first owner (eligible for lifetime powertrain warranty)? The manual's wording for my 08 WK is not clear... but I think you need to stick with oils with the MS-6395 spec for warranty purposes. They also say that 5w-20 is "the best viscosity" (or something similar)... but they don't say "required" viscosity.
Regarding MS-6395.... M1 and PP are approved. Syntec doesn't say so on the bottle but the website does. If it isn't on the bottle, I'm not using it. Last time I checked, the spec wasn't listed for valvoline on bottle or web.
Funny thing is, there are several 6395-rated oils that are xw-30's as well. Does that mean I could run a MS-6395 xw-30? I don't know, but unless the dealer or chrysler says so in writing, I'm not trying it... will stick with mfr guidelines for safeties sake... they engineered it, after all.
Personally, I'd like to go to a thick 5w-20 next time in the 3.7. M1 is in there right now (great sale here recently) and while it runs better on M1 than factory fill, I've got lifter tick when hot with it. The 3.7 used to be a xw-30 motor and I doubt they changed anything. That puts me in PP or syntec territory, if syntec ever puts the rating on the bottle.
Yes, these jeep motors can run HOT. my ZJ had 0.25"-0.5" of sludge on the head which I'm sure was from years of high-temp running on sloppy oci's from the PO. I mean, so much sludge I had to use a shop vac while scraping to handle the head cleanup.
With the chain driven valvetrain, and the high temps, a syn is how I'm going, but for the full non-severe-service 6,000 mile OCI. But if I were to go with a 3000m oci, then I'd stick with good 'ole dino oil.
M
Is it under warranty??? Are you the first owner (eligible for lifetime powertrain warranty)? The manual's wording for my 08 WK is not clear... but I think you need to stick with oils with the MS-6395 spec for warranty purposes. They also say that 5w-20 is "the best viscosity" (or something similar)... but they don't say "required" viscosity.
Regarding MS-6395.... M1 and PP are approved. Syntec doesn't say so on the bottle but the website does. If it isn't on the bottle, I'm not using it. Last time I checked, the spec wasn't listed for valvoline on bottle or web.
Funny thing is, there are several 6395-rated oils that are xw-30's as well. Does that mean I could run a MS-6395 xw-30? I don't know, but unless the dealer or chrysler says so in writing, I'm not trying it... will stick with mfr guidelines for safeties sake... they engineered it, after all.
Personally, I'd like to go to a thick 5w-20 next time in the 3.7. M1 is in there right now (great sale here recently) and while it runs better on M1 than factory fill, I've got lifter tick when hot with it. The 3.7 used to be a xw-30 motor and I doubt they changed anything. That puts me in PP or syntec territory, if syntec ever puts the rating on the bottle.
Yes, these jeep motors can run HOT. my ZJ had 0.25"-0.5" of sludge on the head which I'm sure was from years of high-temp running on sloppy oci's from the PO. I mean, so much sludge I had to use a shop vac while scraping to handle the head cleanup.
With the chain driven valvetrain, and the high temps, a syn is how I'm going, but for the full non-severe-service 6,000 mile OCI. But if I were to go with a 3000m oci, then I'd stick with good 'ole dino oil.
M
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In a brannd-new vehicle, I wouldn't want to bugger up the warranty - use what the OM calls for, at the intervals they spec., just to save yourself the hassle of warranty denial...
I'd use YB 5W-20 at the 'severe service' interval, as you off-road your rig.
I'd use YB 5W-20 at the 'severe service' interval, as you off-road your rig.
Originally Posted By: meep
Really? they run the OHV 3.8 in the wrangler, while they put the OHC 3.7 in the WKs and dakota? wonder why.
Probably engine compartment space to conform to some crash test standard. The 3.7L is a 90* engine while the 3.8L is 60*.
Really? they run the OHV 3.8 in the wrangler, while they put the OHC 3.7 in the WKs and dakota? wonder why.
Probably engine compartment space to conform to some crash test standard. The 3.7L is a 90* engine while the 3.8L is 60*.
Originally Posted By: afoulk
And I do realize that most new cars have hotter thermostats in them, so they do run hotter for emissions reasons, but the 2 jeeps that I've owned are the first ones that I've had that hover around the higher end of the temp. range.
Most new cars? Not trying to be difficult here, but you make it sound like it's something new.
Most cars for at least the last 30 years have used "high temp" thermostats. My 1978 Ford Fairmont with straight 6 used a 195 thermostat.
My 1982 Ford Escort used the same temp thermostat and the cooling fan kicked on at 220 and off at about 200
Both of the vehicles I mentioned went at least 250K miles - the Fairmont had over 325K miles when we sold it. 2 years after we sold it, we got a notice in the mail that it got a parking ticket 500 miles from where we lived. Obviously the new owner(s) never registered it.
The thing to remember is - oil is so much better today than it was back then. If engines from the 70's and 80's could (and did) go that many miles, I don't think we anything to worry about with any of todays oils.
And I do realize that most new cars have hotter thermostats in them, so they do run hotter for emissions reasons, but the 2 jeeps that I've owned are the first ones that I've had that hover around the higher end of the temp. range.
Most new cars? Not trying to be difficult here, but you make it sound like it's something new.
Most cars for at least the last 30 years have used "high temp" thermostats. My 1978 Ford Fairmont with straight 6 used a 195 thermostat.
My 1982 Ford Escort used the same temp thermostat and the cooling fan kicked on at 220 and off at about 200
Both of the vehicles I mentioned went at least 250K miles - the Fairmont had over 325K miles when we sold it. 2 years after we sold it, we got a notice in the mail that it got a parking ticket 500 miles from where we lived. Obviously the new owner(s) never registered it.
The thing to remember is - oil is so much better today than it was back then. If engines from the 70's and 80's could (and did) go that many miles, I don't think we anything to worry about with any of todays oils.
Originally Posted By: afoulk
You know, i never really gave quaker state syn. any thought. Is it any good compared to the others? Whats wrong with Castrol Syntec? Not disagreeing with you, just curious.
Yes the Q synthetics are excellent. As good or better than the other readily available brands like PP, M1, etc...
Long story on the Syntec stuff. Dates back to when I used to sell parts. Long time ago and I am sure it is good stuff that would work for you okay. I still like the regular GTX.
You know, i never really gave quaker state syn. any thought. Is it any good compared to the others? Whats wrong with Castrol Syntec? Not disagreeing with you, just curious.
Yes the Q synthetics are excellent. As good or better than the other readily available brands like PP, M1, etc...
Long story on the Syntec stuff. Dates back to when I used to sell parts. Long time ago and I am sure it is good stuff that would work for you okay. I still like the regular GTX.
The Castrol Syntec would be pretty much considered the bottom rung of the Synthetic ladder. PP is a far better choice than the overpriced, overhyped Syntec. For example, PP meets GM4718m while the Castrol does not. With that said, they'll both get the job done for you.
I have first hand experience with the M1 filter problem. I switched to a Motorcraft F400 (FL-400??) and that took care of it. I have also run Purolators and Supertecs with no problem. The Motorcraft filter is larger capacity, which I like.
I've run 3 or 4 oil changes with Pennzoil Platinum, and one with Mobil 1. I'll probably go with Mobil 1 mostly, with the lower pour point and belief that it will handle slightly higher temps. (Not sure if that is really the case, though.)
I changed oil at the 1k mark, the 3k mark, and now every 6k or every fall and spring, whichever comes first. The OLM is going 6k before coming on.
I actually like this minivan engine. It performed well off-road in Colorado last summer, and is smooth and quiet. Power is just right, with the 6 speed and 4.10 gearing. I could not be happier with this machine.
I hope you enjoy yours as much!
I've run 3 or 4 oil changes with Pennzoil Platinum, and one with Mobil 1. I'll probably go with Mobil 1 mostly, with the lower pour point and belief that it will handle slightly higher temps. (Not sure if that is really the case, though.)
I changed oil at the 1k mark, the 3k mark, and now every 6k or every fall and spring, whichever comes first. The OLM is going 6k before coming on.
I actually like this minivan engine. It performed well off-road in Colorado last summer, and is smooth and quiet. Power is just right, with the 6 speed and 4.10 gearing. I could not be happier with this machine.
I hope you enjoy yours as much!
As far as heat goes PP meets HTO-06, a honda/acura standard indicating turbocharger compatibility.
Ok, lets see if I can address several of you here in one post.
IndyFan, FL-400S is the number of the motorcraft filter you were thinking of. I was thinking about going that, but I'm gonna stick with the stock sized filters until everything gets straightened out with my lifter tick
Oldmaninsc, sorry about that, I'm a diesel mechanic by trade, and I guess I'm just used to seeing the lower temp thermostats on the big rigs, however most of the newer egr engines, and especially the new stuff with the DPF's are running 195* thermostats.
As for my jeep, yes I bought it new and it does have the lifetime warranty. So far I have used oils that meet the MS6395, atleast say they meet any of chrysler's requirements for a 5w-20 (ex. Castrol Syntec). I didn't realize the Syntec was near the lower end of the synthetic spectrum though. Most of the oils I've looked at though say they meet MS6395P or MS6395 with some other letter after the numbers. I don't know what all that stuff means, but I do know it is kinda hard to find an oil anymore that meets just MS6395.
NHSilverado, I picked up some of the Quakerstate Torque Power 5w-30 at walmart and I'm gonna give that a whirl. Are there any UOA's or even VOA's of that stuff on here? and whats the difference between the torque power and the horsepower stuff?
and finally, I don't think I'm to worried about the lifter tick. I've heard the same noise in several Chevy Equinox's with the V-6, and from what i've been told, its the noise of the exhaust valves clattering because the exh. manifolds are so thin. Don't know if theres any truth to that or not, but mine seems to run fine.
IndyFan, FL-400S is the number of the motorcraft filter you were thinking of. I was thinking about going that, but I'm gonna stick with the stock sized filters until everything gets straightened out with my lifter tick
Oldmaninsc, sorry about that, I'm a diesel mechanic by trade, and I guess I'm just used to seeing the lower temp thermostats on the big rigs, however most of the newer egr engines, and especially the new stuff with the DPF's are running 195* thermostats.
As for my jeep, yes I bought it new and it does have the lifetime warranty. So far I have used oils that meet the MS6395, atleast say they meet any of chrysler's requirements for a 5w-20 (ex. Castrol Syntec). I didn't realize the Syntec was near the lower end of the synthetic spectrum though. Most of the oils I've looked at though say they meet MS6395P or MS6395 with some other letter after the numbers. I don't know what all that stuff means, but I do know it is kinda hard to find an oil anymore that meets just MS6395.
NHSilverado, I picked up some of the Quakerstate Torque Power 5w-30 at walmart and I'm gonna give that a whirl. Are there any UOA's or even VOA's of that stuff on here? and whats the difference between the torque power and the horsepower stuff?
and finally, I don't think I'm to worried about the lifter tick. I've heard the same noise in several Chevy Equinox's with the V-6, and from what i've been told, its the noise of the exhaust valves clattering because the exh. manifolds are so thin. Don't know if theres any truth to that or not, but mine seems to run fine.
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: afoulk
They do run hot. My fan comes one at 215* F, and even with winter temperatures beginning, it will still get that hot sitting in traffic. And when I'm offroad, creaping along on trails, the coolant temp rarely drops below 200. I'm sure that since these engines don't have a oil cooler, the oil temp is alteast equal to the coolant, if not, hotter. If you ever lifted the hood on a new jeep wrangler, or even the TJ's with the older straight six, you wouldn't believe the heat that is trapped under there.
I like the synthetic oils mainly for its ability to withstand high temperatures and resist sludging up and varnishing.
I believe you on the heat. I have four Jeeps. My '92 YJ is a 2.5L with a granny low(SM420 w/ 7.05:1 1st gear) running 35" or 38" MT Claws (which actually runs cool on the hottest days thanks to a 3-row HD radiator), a Buggy based on a 2000 TJ with a 4.0L, a 1959 Willys CJ5 with an F-head, and a 1989 Cherokee with a 4.0L.
The XJ runs 220-225 sitting in traffic on a hot day with the A/C on. That gets pretty scary. I was thinking about adding some louvers next year to evacuate the heat. Out on the trail, I have cooked meatloaf and other dishes on the manifold of my YJ. It's perfect for the slow roast.
Originally Posted By: afoulk
I like the synthetic oils mainly for its ability to withstand high temperatures and resist sludging up and varnishing.
Given all of your posts, it sounds like you really want a syn, so go for it. I know many here like PP, personally, I have always liked Castrol products and if it were my Jeep, I would run Syntec 5W20 and hit the trails. Speaking of which, did you ever wheel at Paragon? I miss that place. What a great set of trails. Looks like you're only 40 min from Rausch Creek too. Are you in any Jeep clubs?
I've only had my jeep out on one "real" wheeling trip to Rausch Creek. We had a blast, but I beat the [censored] outta the underside. I'm still stock with only the 29" tires that came on it. Never did make it to Paragon before they closed, but wish I would have. Don't belong to any clubs yet, but I do frequent JKForum and JKOwners.
Originally Posted By: afoulk
They do run hot. My fan comes one at 215* F, and even with winter temperatures beginning, it will still get that hot sitting in traffic. And when I'm offroad, creaping along on trails, the coolant temp rarely drops below 200. I'm sure that since these engines don't have a oil cooler, the oil temp is alteast equal to the coolant, if not, hotter. If you ever lifted the hood on a new jeep wrangler, or even the TJ's with the older straight six, you wouldn't believe the heat that is trapped under there.
I like the synthetic oils mainly for its ability to withstand high temperatures and resist sludging up and varnishing.
I believe you on the heat. I have four Jeeps. My '92 YJ is a 2.5L with a granny low(SM420 w/ 7.05:1 1st gear) running 35" or 38" MT Claws (which actually runs cool on the hottest days thanks to a 3-row HD radiator), a Buggy based on a 2000 TJ with a 4.0L, a 1959 Willys CJ5 with an F-head, and a 1989 Cherokee with a 4.0L.
The XJ runs 220-225 sitting in traffic on a hot day with the A/C on. That gets pretty scary. I was thinking about adding some louvers next year to evacuate the heat. Out on the trail, I have cooked meatloaf and other dishes on the manifold of my YJ. It's perfect for the slow roast.
Originally Posted By: afoulk
I like the synthetic oils mainly for its ability to withstand high temperatures and resist sludging up and varnishing.
Given all of your posts, it sounds like you really want a syn, so go for it. I know many here like PP, personally, I have always liked Castrol products and if it were my Jeep, I would run Syntec 5W20 and hit the trails. Speaking of which, did you ever wheel at Paragon? I miss that place. What a great set of trails. Looks like you're only 40 min from Rausch Creek too. Are you in any Jeep clubs?
I've only had my jeep out on one "real" wheeling trip to Rausch Creek. We had a blast, but I beat the [censored] outta the underside. I'm still stock with only the 29" tires that came on it. Never did make it to Paragon before they closed, but wish I would have. Don't belong to any clubs yet, but I do frequent JKForum and JKOwners.
Originally Posted By: 3putter
The Castrol Syntec would be pretty much considered the bottom rung of the Synthetic ladder. PP is a far better choice than the overpriced, overhyped Syntec. For example, PP meets GM4718m while the Castrol does not. With that said, they'll both get the job done for you.
I agree with this.
Only thing I like from Syntec is there 0w30 "German Castrol"
Made of a Group IV base oil.
The rest of there products are good but standard.
The Castrol Syntec would be pretty much considered the bottom rung of the Synthetic ladder. PP is a far better choice than the overpriced, overhyped Syntec. For example, PP meets GM4718m while the Castrol does not. With that said, they'll both get the job done for you.
I agree with this.
Only thing I like from Syntec is there 0w30 "German Castrol"
Made of a Group IV base oil.
The rest of there products are good but standard.
you know, now that you mention that about the "German Castrol" I sorta remember back to when I had my VW Passat, guys would say that the Castrol Syntec was good stuff, as long as you got the stuff made in germany, or belgium or something like that.
Originally Posted By: 3putter
The Castrol Syntec would be pretty much considered the bottom rung of the Synthetic ladder. PP is a far better choice than the overpriced, overhyped Syntec. For example, PP meets GM4718m while the Castrol does not. With that said, they'll both get the job done for you.
I don't think Syntec is the bottom rung. Can you please provide some data to back up your claim? As far as being overhyped, I haven't seen too many Castrol commercials in a while. PP, however, has been all over the airways with it's "adaptive molecules". I don't believe Amsoil or Royal Purple meet GM4718m either. Are they inferior, or did they just not bother to submit to that particular test (not that it even applies to Afoulk's Jeep)?
The last info I saw regarding GM4718m listed these oils:
Castrol SLX Professional 4718
Chevron Supreme Synthetic
CITGO SUPERGARD Synthetic
Mobil 1
Northland, Synergy Synthetic
Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic
Texaco Havoline Synthetic
Q HorsePower
Personally, I'd use Syntec over PP. I have always liked Castrol products, and use them in my Jeeps, daily drivers, and ATV's with great results. That's not to say that PP wouldn't do a great job either. I haven't seen any data to compare the two to see which is better.
The Castrol Syntec would be pretty much considered the bottom rung of the Synthetic ladder. PP is a far better choice than the overpriced, overhyped Syntec. For example, PP meets GM4718m while the Castrol does not. With that said, they'll both get the job done for you.
I don't think Syntec is the bottom rung. Can you please provide some data to back up your claim? As far as being overhyped, I haven't seen too many Castrol commercials in a while. PP, however, has been all over the airways with it's "adaptive molecules". I don't believe Amsoil or Royal Purple meet GM4718m either. Are they inferior, or did they just not bother to submit to that particular test (not that it even applies to Afoulk's Jeep)?
The last info I saw regarding GM4718m listed these oils:
Castrol SLX Professional 4718
Chevron Supreme Synthetic
CITGO SUPERGARD Synthetic
Mobil 1
Northland, Synergy Synthetic
Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic
Texaco Havoline Synthetic
Q HorsePower
Personally, I'd use Syntec over PP. I have always liked Castrol products, and use them in my Jeeps, daily drivers, and ATV's with great results. That's not to say that PP wouldn't do a great job either. I haven't seen any data to compare the two to see which is better.
Actually the box of SSO I have sitting here says that it meets the GM4718 spec.
Originally Posted By: afoulk
NHSilverado, I picked up some of the Quakerstate Torque Power 5w-30 at walmart and I'm gonna give that a whirl. Are there any UOA's or even VOA's of that stuff on here? and whats the difference between the torque power and the horsepower stuff?
and finally, I don't think I'm to worried about the lifter tick. I've heard the same noise in several Chevy Equinox's with the V-6, and from what i've been told, its the noise of the exhaust valves clattering because the exh. manifolds are so thin. Don't know if theres any truth to that or not, but mine seems to run fine.
I amswered you in your other thread about the QS oils.
I actually have an Equinox myself with the 3.4L and it is one noisy engine!
Lots of banging, rappping, and clattering at cold start( started around 6K and has continued on here to 9K ). Once warmed up it is a pretty noisey engine as well but to my ear that is just loud fuel injectors not valves.
NHSilverado, I picked up some of the Quakerstate Torque Power 5w-30 at walmart and I'm gonna give that a whirl. Are there any UOA's or even VOA's of that stuff on here? and whats the difference between the torque power and the horsepower stuff?
and finally, I don't think I'm to worried about the lifter tick. I've heard the same noise in several Chevy Equinox's with the V-6, and from what i've been told, its the noise of the exhaust valves clattering because the exh. manifolds are so thin. Don't know if theres any truth to that or not, but mine seems to run fine.
I amswered you in your other thread about the QS oils.
I actually have an Equinox myself with the 3.4L and it is one noisy engine!
Originally Posted By: NHSilverado
Originally Posted By: afoulk
NHSilverado, I picked up some of the Quakerstate Torque Power 5w-30 at walmart and I'm gonna give that a whirl. Are there any UOA's or even VOA's of that stuff on here? and whats the difference between the torque power and the horsepower stuff?
and finally, I don't think I'm to worried about the lifter tick. I've heard the same noise in several Chevy Equinox's with the V-6, and from what i've been told, its the noise of the exhaust valves clattering because the exh. manifolds are so thin. Don't know if theres any truth to that or not, but mine seems to run fine.
I amswered you in your other thread about the QS oils.
I actually have an Equinox myself with the 3.4L and it is one noisy engine!
Lots of banging, rappping, and clattering at cold start( started around 6K and has continued on here to 9K ). Once warmed up it is a pretty noisey engine as well but to my ear that is just loud fuel injectors not valves.
Yeah, my buddies wife has the pontiac equivilant of the Equinox (sorry, couldn't remember what they are called) as does my boss, and they both are noisy as heck, especially when cold. I was worried about the lifter tick in mine until I heard theirs run, now I'm not so worried
Dealer told me to bring it back in when I hit 6,000miles to see if its gotten any worse. I'll be hitting that in the next couple weeks, so we'll find out, but I don't think they are gonna do anything about it.
Originally Posted By: afoulk
NHSilverado, I picked up some of the Quakerstate Torque Power 5w-30 at walmart and I'm gonna give that a whirl. Are there any UOA's or even VOA's of that stuff on here? and whats the difference between the torque power and the horsepower stuff?
and finally, I don't think I'm to worried about the lifter tick. I've heard the same noise in several Chevy Equinox's with the V-6, and from what i've been told, its the noise of the exhaust valves clattering because the exh. manifolds are so thin. Don't know if theres any truth to that or not, but mine seems to run fine.
I amswered you in your other thread about the QS oils.
I actually have an Equinox myself with the 3.4L and it is one noisy engine!
Yeah, my buddies wife has the pontiac equivilant of the Equinox (sorry, couldn't remember what they are called) as does my boss, and they both are noisy as heck, especially when cold. I was worried about the lifter tick in mine until I heard theirs run, now I'm not so worried
Dealer told me to bring it back in when I hit 6,000miles to see if its gotten any worse. I'll be hitting that in the next couple weeks, so we'll find out, but I don't think they are gonna do anything about it.Originally Posted By: Zaedock
The XJ runs 220-225 sitting in traffic on a hot day with the A/C on. That gets pretty scary. I was thinking about adding some louvers next year to evacuate the heat.
My 99 XJ runs around 210 all the time but doesn't seem to mind. It's coming up on 170K miles, engine is a little on the noisy side but it still makes good power and gets good gas mileage (Can pull 25 mpg on the highway if you take it easy). Engine noise is a combination of lifters and piston slap, I think. When it's cold out its quieter, oddly enough.
It's developed a bit of a hesitation issue related to warm ambient temperatures, but now that's it's cooled down outside the fix for that problem can wait until next year.
The XJ runs 220-225 sitting in traffic on a hot day with the A/C on. That gets pretty scary. I was thinking about adding some louvers next year to evacuate the heat.
My 99 XJ runs around 210 all the time but doesn't seem to mind. It's coming up on 170K miles, engine is a little on the noisy side but it still makes good power and gets good gas mileage (Can pull 25 mpg on the highway if you take it easy). Engine noise is a combination of lifters and piston slap, I think. When it's cold out its quieter, oddly enough.
It's developed a bit of a hesitation issue related to warm ambient temperatures, but now that's it's cooled down outside the fix for that problem can wait until next year.
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