Handgun bullet penetration

[1sttruck]

"I think she did a better job with the shotgun than a pistol."

When we go out to plink with the handguns it's fun to bring the 12 ga. After awhile with people going 'pop pop pop, maybe a BANG once in awhile from a .357, the BOOM of the 12 ga with buckshot is always imrpessive, but what is really eye opening is what it does to the target. 00 is the traditional stuff, but 3in loads of #4 buck really make a mess of things.

 

[wantin150]

"She answered that she shot him only five times because she ran out of ammunition."

Kind of like "Sir/Madam, why exactly did you shoot the intruder 16 times?" "They wouldn't stop moving!"

 

[Snake42]

Snake,
Are you willing to share the details? I'm interested. [/quote

Ok, While I was stationed in Germany I was attached to the Air Police Squadron for awhile to guard the nuclear warheads that went in our missiles if and when they were ever declared operational. Since the site was still under construction and permanent wiring had not been placed the guard shack ran off a loooong extension cord. The breaker had enough capability to run the heater or the lights but not both. During the night shift we would turn off the lights and turn on the stove to get warm and then switch so we could read until we got cold again. During one of these dark periods I heard a VW coming up the road which was strange because no one lived around the missile site. As it rounded the corner and started past the site I could make out what looked like blinking lights in the car but I couldn't figure out what it was until the glass in the guard shack started started falling out all over the place. About the same time as I got hit by flying glass I realized it was gunfire from the car and I nearly burnt the handle out of the field phone trying to get some help. I knew I was hurt but I thought it was from the glass so I lay still on the floor hoping they would not come back (I had no weapon you see] and waited for the Cavalry to arrive. When they did get there I had passed out from loss of blood where a bullet had shattered my breast bone. Luckily they got me to the hospital in time and they took out the bullet fragments and wired my chest back together and everything was hunky dorry,well, not really cause I was really [censored] at whoever had shot me and after I got discharged from the hospital I swore I'd get even. I tried but to no avail. I never even got a whiff of them. That was the 9mm parabellum story.

As far as the 45 goes I was on the range working as a line judge during a match when some idiot picked up a pistol that had not been safed and pulled the trigger to safe it. Unfortunately it still had a round in the chamber and it caught me in the rear of the right leg. Since it was a Military match we were all wearing webb gear with holsters, canteens, spare mags etc. and the round hit my combat knife and shattered putting three pieces of bullet into the rear of my right thigh. I know that hurt more than the 9mm because I didn't pass out and I could feel it all the way to the hospital. The Surgeon was a Navy Hack and didn't remove the bullet fragments so,of course, it got infected and they had to go back in and cut two humongous holes in my leg to let the wound drain and heal up from the inside and they still left one fragment in there that I've been carrying around for 42 years now.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: Snake42

Snake,
Are you willing to share the details? I'm interested. [/quote

Ok, While I was stationed in Germany I was attached to the Air Police Squadron for awhile to guard the nuclear warheads that went in our missiles if and when they were ever declared operational. Since the site was still under construction and permanent wiring had not been placed the guard shack ran off a loooong extension cord. The breaker had enough capability to run the heater or the lights but not both. During the night shift we would turn off the lights and turn on the stove to get warm and then switch so we could read until we got cold again. During one of these dark periods I heard a VW coming up the road which was strange because no one lived around the missile site. As it rounded the corner and started past the site I could make out what looked like blinking lights in the car but I couldn't figure out what it was until the glass in the guard shack started started falling out all over the place. About the same time as I got hit by flying glass I realized it was gunfire from the car and I nearly burnt the handle out of the field phone trying to get some help. I knew I was hurt but I thought it was from the glass so I lay still on the floor hoping they would not come back (I had no weapon you see]


That sounds hard to believe for most people, but fits what I saw in the Air Force.

I was a nuclear weapons tech in the 1960s. The APs in our area carried weapons without ammo and weren't allowed to carry the ammo on their person. It used to [censored] them off that us techs carried loaded M1911A1s in shoulder holsters when we were at work.

When we convoyed weapons to the flight line on alerts, we carried loaded M2 carbines and M1911A1s. The APs carried empty M1911A1s.

Who do you think was in the VW and shot you while you were on guard duty?

What we actually carried varied during my 3 years in weapons maintenance. The above reflects the 12 months or so we were the most heavily armed.

The other thing the ticked the APs off was that we got all the firing range time we wanted and they were lucky to get on the range for a short session once a year.

I noticed you said 42 years ago. I got out of the AF 44 years ago, so we served at about the same time.

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: Snake42
That was the 9mm parabellum story.


Are you sure it was a 9mm Luger/Parabellum? There are many different cartridges that use the same diameter projectile, often with similar bullet designs. Perhaps it was a .380, or a 9x18 Makarov, or maybe it was a 9mm Largo or even a 9x21? Most of those are quite common in Europe.

 

[Pete C.]

SAC, TAC & ADC. 46370, 46270 and 46170 AFSC's. Never carried a weapon to/at work, stateside or overseas, unless we were playing war games, or conveying warheads off base to remote sites. And then it was a .38sp and an M16.

That training load in the fields of Greensboro NC, was one of mine, from Dyess AFB.

 

[Snake42]

Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: Snake42

Snake,
Are you willing to share the details? I'm interested. [/quote

Ok, While I was stationed in Germany I was attached to the Air Police Squadron for awhile to guard the nuclear warheads that went in our missiles if and when they were ever declared operational. Since the site was still under construction and permanent wiring had not been placed the guard shack ran off a loooong extension cord. The breaker had enough capability to run the heater or the lights but not both. During the night shift we would turn off the lights and turn on the stove to get warm and then switch so we could read until we got cold again. During one of these dark periods I heard a VW coming up the road which was strange because no one lived around the missile site. As it rounded the corner and started past the site I could make out what looked like blinking lights in the car but I couldn't figure out what it was until the glass in the guard shack started started falling out all over the place. About the same time as I got hit by flying glass I realized it was gunfire from the car and I nearly burnt the handle out of the field phone trying to get some help. I knew I was hurt but I thought it was from the glass so I lay still on the floor hoping they would not come back (I had no weapon you see]


That sounds hard to believe for most people, but fits what I saw in the Air Force.

I was a nuclear weapons tech in the 1960s. The APs in our area carried weapons without ammo and weren't allowed to carry the ammo on their person. It used to [censored] them off that us techs carried loaded M1911A1s in shoulder holsters when we were at work.

When we convoyed weapons to the flight line on alerts, we carried loaded M2 carbines and M1911A1s. The APs carried empty M1911A1s.

Who do you think was in the VW and shot you while you were on guard duty?

What we actually carried varied during my 3 years in weapons maintenance. The above reflects the 12 months or so we were the most heavily armed.

The other thing the ticked the APs off was that we got all the firing range time we wanted and they were lucky to get on the range for a short session once a year.

I noticed you said 42 years ago. I got out of the AF 44 years ago, so we served at about the same time.


I went overseas in Jan 62 and returned stateside in Aug 64 and I was stationed at a remote missile site outside of Rittersdorf, about 21 klicks from Bitburg AB.

 

[Snake42]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: Snake42
That was the 9mm parabellum story.


Are you sure it was a 9mm Luger/Parabellum? There are many different cartridges that use the same diameter projectile, often with similar bullet designs. Perhaps it was a .380, or a 9x18 Makarov, or maybe it was a 9mm Largo or even a 9x21? Most of those are quite common in Europe.


You're quite right about the type of round, I just said the first one that came to mind. I never saw the bullet or fragments thereof but that's what I was told, come to think of it that Navy hack may not have known a 9mm from a 22.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: Pete C.
SAC, TAC & ADC. 46370, 46270 and 46170 AFSC's. Never carried a weapon to/at work, stateside or overseas, unless we were playing war games, or conveying warheads off base to remote sites. And then it was a .38sp and an M16.

That training load in the fields of Greensboro NC, was one of mine, from Dyess AFB.



Those are familiar looking AFSCs. I was a 33150. We didn't carry weapons stateside either. Turkey was another case.

 

[Pete C.]

463xx= Nuclear weapons
462xx= Weapons handler/loader
461xx= Conventional munitions
464xx= EOD

Least that's what they were between 1964 and 1975. All four schools were at Lowrey AFB in Denver.

 

[jeffreydbrown]

I have a S&W Model 15, and while it's stored at home I use Glaser Safety Slugs (silver tips, with a speedloader of blue tips for winter use). There are obviously those who wouldn't rely on frangible rounds, but my children don't sleep in their home, and the only dissenting opinion with which I really concern myself is that of the poor [censored] who finds himself in my home without an invitation and therefore downrange.

 

[1sttruck]

"When we convoyed weapons to the flight line on alerts, we carried loaded M2 carbines and M1911A1s. The APs carried empty M1911A1s."

At March AFB in the late 60s we'd see a convoy once in awhile going from the ammo dump close to the housing area off base to the airfield. As I recall there would be a jeep front and rear, a truck fill of troops, and another truck with the bed covered. It would move pretty slowly. B52s among other aircraft were stationed there at the time.

One of my brothers went into the Air Force with a friend that he'd known since grade school. My brother ended up working on B52s while his friend was a crew member on them. He lost his fried when the plane went down on a low level training flight.

In the mid 70s on Camp Pendleton our battalion had a 24/7 guard for the armory. The armorer carried a loaded .45, the guards on watch carried M16s with a 5 rd magazine, the sargent of the guard carried a loaded .45, and the rest of the guard was available when needed, with loaded M16s.

 

[leftlane]

Hit them in the right place and they will drop. I saw a story on tv about a guy who did not get hit in the right place because he got shot either 10 or 11 times with a .45 and not only survived but still walks, with a limp and minus a kidney and other organs mind you but still walks after being told at the time that he'd never be able to again. Must have been shot with fmj's instead of hp's.

If using #7 or #8 bird shot maybe it'd be best to aim at the soft throat to immobilize them. If you were at a distance of 15ft or more it'd probably blind them also to where they couldnt see you if they were still able to shoot back.

 

[hi-miler]

Don't know if it's still true, but I once read this interesting statistic that said the bad guys really don't spend a lot of time with bullet choice. The majority of rounds recovered or discovered from known criminals turned out to be common FMJ or better know as ball ammo.