Z Max Addivitve

[Oilgal]

hmmmm

I just looked again at my Zmax receipt, and shipping for two "kits" was $12.98. That is a little high for UPS ground. I still got two "kits" for less than one would have cost me at the auto parts store though.

 

[tackleberry625]

good job.......save yo monay

 

[Gary Allan]

Additives of the Zmax variety are typically a "flash in the pan" deal. They do a massive informercial campaign in the beginning. They then sell "territories" on a first come - first serve basis. They then get the "franchisee" to commit to buy a quarter million $$ worth of product with the alleged exclusivity of the territory. The fine print states that they need to buy another quarter million $$ worth of stuff to keep their territory. The fine print is usually ignored since these people are also hyped up with the infomercial craze. They buy their quarter million $$$ worth of product ...and sell maybe half of it before the hype of the infomercials is exposed to be mostly hype ..and that the products do more to flatten your wallet than they do to increase anything other than their volume added to your crankcase. The territories are sold ...when that slows up ..the infomercials stop (the market has been played for quarter million $$ customers) ...and you don't hear much about it anymore. The stuff starts showing up at massive discount since the original territory owner is now stuck with half or more of his product that no one wants ...etc...etc. Until the "new" hot setup comes along.

 

[Oilgal]

Gary I get that. This stuff has been around a long time though, History of zMAX and the aviation version, AVBlend, has been FAA approved since 1980.

You know, I just have to wonder now, if internet anti snake oil hysteria sometimes affects the wrong people, and perhaps that is why their sales drop off.

I know Teflon doesn't belong in an engine, because there is ample proof of that. But these zMax guys have good evidence their product actually works, and that is how they got FAA approval. The FTC dropped their action against zMax also, because the zMax guys were able to prove, with hard evidence, that the claims they made were both valid and repeatable. The zMax FTC Ruling Summary.

I forget who said it here in this thread the other day, something like, the AV Blend is not the same stuff as zMax. But the truth is, AVBlend is both made and sold by the same people, and it contains basically the same ingredients.

I believe in this case at least, that snake oil is being called inappropriately, or at the very least prematurely.

 

[Oilgal]

I have been digging a little deeper into this.

Varying points of view on the FTC vs. zMAX litigation and settlement.

zMax Marketers Settle for $1 Million

Speedway Motorsports Announces Resolution of FTC vs. Oil-Chem Litigation.

CarBibbles.com: The additives that fought back



It seems that zMAX may be good for cleaning parts, and or a very short hot idle flush, right before before doing an oil change. I will not be leaving zMAX in my oil however. I will stick with ARX.

I am such a sucker sometimes! I went

10 whole years avoiding all oil additives, and then I get suckered into buying zMAX. It's the FAA approval and their history that got me. I am burning with shame here on BITOG. Well great just great.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, at least you did it at a discount.

I'm sure all of us have bought stuff like this .. even at full price ..just out of curiosity. I did that with Prolong. I never intended to put it in anything. I just took it to work and played with it. We did some unscientific testing. We took a stainless steal bolt and blunted the head on a grinder ..got some stainless steel flat stock ...stuck the bolt in the drill press and put a drop of Prolong on the flat stock and pulled down on the drill and saw how long it took to smoke up. It didn't take long. We then put a drop of everything they had in 55 gallon drums in the maintenance shop. ATF, 20 weight, 40 weight, hydraulic oil, turbine oil, whatever was there. Did the same thing. They all smoked near enough to each other. No biggie . I then put another drop on the flat stock and added a drop of Prolong. Each one took longer to smoke than any of them alone ..including Prolong.

So ..did Prolong "add" something to the durability of the other lubricants in terms of this crude durability test? Yes. Did it mean anything in realized value to anything I would have put it in enough to offset its cost regardless of any unknown unfavorable side effects? Doubtful.

That's 90% of the infomercial effect. It's so compelling that you buy the stuff just out of curiosity. I think the best scam going was the Tornado. Man ..a $0.35 stamped piece of metal that you sell for $60 (or something like that).

(hanging and shaking head): Why am I not a millionaire??

 

[Oilgal]

Thanks Gary. Your story cheered me up.

Yeah I did get a deal on the snake oil, and it is not completely worthless. You just don't want to drive around with it in your oil.

Do you think it would be of any use in the gas to clean the uppers?

 

[Oilgal]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan


(hanging and shaking head): Why am I not a millionaire??


Maybe because you are honest and decent? Blessed are the poor indeed. There have been many times, when real wealth could have easily been mine, had I lacked scruples.

 

[Johnny]

Well, if anyone wants to try Z Max have I got a deal for you. I would need to go out and look in the garage to be sure, but I believe I have 20 of those 3-bottle kits in the cabinet. I would sell them all at one time for $1.00 per kit plus the UPS shipping. If anyone is interested send me a PM.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Do you think it would be of any use in the gas to clean the uppers?


I dunno

I never checked out The Max in anything. Is it supposed to be put in the tank? Give it a try. I doubt it could do anything too wrong. I dumped about a 1/2 gallon of MMO just to get some who said it did nasty stuff to SHUT UP. I didn't do it to prove anything other than it did no harm. I don't use the stuff except in my oil burner (boiler).

I'm the kinda guy that sees a few guys hemming and hawing about 3oz too much or too little ...I grab 5 lbs of the stuff and jump up and down with two feet on it to see what all the ninny picking's all about.

So, be a bold trooper, baby!! Join the club of those who BOLDLY go with no other sensible owner has gone before! (traditional Captain Kirk Roman "in the round speech")

 

[Shelby]

I doubt there is much difference between MMO and ZMax, lol. That is my point.

 

[Oilgal]

Gary and Shelby

If, zMax really is like MMO, then it will clean the uppers real well when used in gas. I know MMO works great that way, and if 'ze Max' is more penetrating, as zay say, then it may be very good.

FEMBOTS! ATTACK!

MMO, it's MOM, spelled sideways.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
Well, if anyone wants to try Z Max have I got a deal for you. I would need to go out and look in the garage to be sure, but I believe I have 20 of those 3-bottle kits in the cabinet. I would sell them all at one time for $1.00 per kit plus the UPS shipping. If anyone is interested send me a PM.


Johnny ..this begs the question ..how did one accumulate so much of this product and have it sitting around long enough to, more or less, forget about it

Did you have a promotional give away to prospective customers and it fizzled out before you went through the samples?

Or did you have some episode and decide to have a Z-Max stash/shrine?

(hey, this is BITOG - anything is possible - in fact ..it's promoted)

Nice to see that you still check in from time to time. Retirement working well for you?

edit: and while we're at it, do you have an insight into the chemistry of this stuff?

 

[BarkerMan]

If Carroll Shelby puts his name on it how could it be a bad product?

 

[cmhj]

Originally Posted By: BarkerMan
If Carroll Shelby puts his name on it how could it be a bad product?


At his age what does he care? Some of these "celebrity" types will put their name on anything for a buck.

 

[Frank]

Intersting you said that when "Andy" was promoting STP samples were given to all in attendance after he left a crew picked them up from the stands and put them in th dumpster.

 

[Johnny]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: Johnny
Well, if anyone wants to try Z Max have I got a deal for you. I would need to go out and look in the garage to be sure, but I believe I have 20 of those 3-bottle kits in the cabinet. I would sell them all at one time for $1.00 per kit plus the UPS shipping. If anyone is interested send me a PM.


Johnny ..this begs the question ..how did one accumulate so much of this product and have it sitting around long enough to, more or less, forget about it

Did you have a promotional give away to prospective customers and it fizzled out before you went through the samples?

Or did you have some episode and decide to have a Z-Max stash/shrine?

(hey, this is BITOG - anything is possible - in fact ..it's promoted)

Nice to see that you still check in from time to time. Retirement working well for you?

edit: and while we're at it, do you have an insight into the chemistry of this stuff?


I have not forgot about it, I see it everytime I open my large garage cabinet. I never sold the stuff, let's just say I inherited it. I'm not sure what the chemical makeup is but I do know it's a very good injector cleaner. There are three bottles to a kit (clear, red, and I think blue or green) different sizes. They are all the same product just different color, so it could all be used in the fuel if wanted. I looked in to taking it to the waste desposal site but it will cost me $2.50 per box to do so. I'd rather make a $1.00 than spend $2.50. And the Z Max is the same product as the FAA approved stuff. The Avblend just comes in a sealed metal can.

 

[Frank]

Has anybody read the FTC ruling on ZMAX ? what they were doing is dumping there original inventory. This stuff is marketed because the money to do so is available not that it works.

I almost ready to launch V-MAX however Walgreens has run out of white mineral oil.

 

[Dad2leia]

Way back in this thread, someone mentioned Oil Extreme. It isn't a C.P., but rather an overbased calcium compound (I forget the exact name).

Safe for use, but older technology and not worth the premium price IMHO.

 

[BarkerMan]

I worked for the Andy Granatelli and the family business back in the 60's. STP was designed to make oil thicker and that when the product was designed worked to stop most engines from burning so much oil and smoking. In older engines with the oil of the day it worked but that's all it did. It did not reduce friction or anything else it may have been claimed to do. There were Indy cars that used STP but one can of STP in those giant oil tanks for dry sump engines meant the mixture was diluted with 20 gallons of racing oil. In those days racing engines burned a lot of oil. That was how they were designed. It was the best way to lubricate the top end of the engine. If you engine burned alcohol you set it up to burn a little more oil to make the engine last.

Many of theses additive are examples of marketing excellence not examples of technology. The product does have to be made good enough not to do any damage right away, that's good enough. If you make it better than that you are cutting into the profit margin and that's why most of them do nothing.

The only product I've seen that has been used and tested by users and works is the Auto-Rx that's promoted on this site. I was exposed to it by another member on this site. He ran my wife's car through a clean and rinse cycle. I'm kind of a mechanic and self made engineer and I dug into this stuff myself. There is something else going on with this stuff that is more than cleaning sludge up or cutting carbon. I've been thinking about running a larger than recommended maintenance dose in her car to see what happens. I think that we are missing some things that Auto-Rx does because the Auto-Rx company is very conservative (honest) and is not driven by a large marketing budget with time and money to build a business plan to expand the business. Please no flames it's just my opinion and I would like to hear from Frank of Auto-Rx. Hello Frank are you out there?