You choose --- 370z, Mustang 5.0, Camaro SS

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Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
The 308 was pure awesome for me until one of the car magazines raced it against a freakin' Dodge truck.

The Lil' Red Express.

I was like 10 years old and the Ferrari was not supposed to get beat by a pick up truck. I didn't understand that acceleration was only a small part of the complete package. I also did not understand that the truck had much lesser emission restrictions. All I knew was that a pick up had beaten the Ferrari.

Then I saw a De Tomaso Pantera. My faith in the "Italian Supercar" (powered by Ford)was restored.

then that faith was destroyed again when Honda released the NSX. A supercar that parts didn't fall off of on a regular basis.

My Continental would probable out accelerate it, but it won't look as good doing it!


Does anyone remember the C&D head-to-head between the Ferrari 348 and the GMC Syclone? I had the same feelings of shame for the Ferrari after it got served in a 1/4 mile drag race against a turbo Sonoma...

Lots of vehicles can beat many of the older Ferrari's in straight line performance. But as for all-around driving ability and handling, fantastic beauty and craftsmanship,
and little depreciation, a Ferrari is....well....a Ferrari.
 
I agree mostly, and the point wasn't that the Syclone was a better vehicle, just that it was $100k less 20 years ago and handled fairly similarly, braked, and accelerated better through at least the 1/4-mile.

Although I would contend that Ferraris aren't particularly great in their "craftsmanship", at least not the ones prior to about 15 years ago.
 
Anyone who has really examined one will tell you that Ferrari is automotive art at it's finest.

Comparing one to a GM Huffer V6 is comical. The Prancing Horse is all about the wail of a highly tuned engine, the whine of straight cut gears in a real gearbox, and brakes to match your high performance. And their workmanship is amazingly high quality.

And the Ferrari we're talking about is a huge DOG of a model, hardly representative!
 
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Yes, the 308 was not a super-car by any standard. But.....it's still a beautiful vehicle to me and a real Ferrari that can be had for $30k these days. I've seen some on ebay that are in truly great condition. I'd LOVE to have one.
One on my friends has a last year production 328 and I have done maintenance and cam belts and minor repairs and valve checks on it ,the car is well maintained and has been reliable and trouble free. While it is not [hard] to work on. It is a pain in the behind to work on. I have driven it a bit and I am really not a car person but it is really nice to drive. I enjoy riding in it more as I can enjoy the feel of it . Yeah I am strange and the car sure is pretty. Parts are pricey. I wonder if a turboed 3.8 Buick Grand National era engine could be adapted into the 328? Ferraris
IMO are toy cars. I would pick a Porsche for an exotic daily driver type.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Anyone who has really examined one will tell you that Ferrari is automotive art at it's finest.

Comparing one to a GM Huffer V6 is comical. The Prancing Horse is all about the wail of a highly tuned engine, the whine of straight cut gears in a real gearbox, and brakes to match your high performance. And their workmanship is amazingly high quality.

And the Ferrari we're talking about is a huge DOG of a model, hardly representative!


Who said anything about which is the better package?
 
Who, indeed.

I am simply suggesting that if we are pulling super GM autos out of the past we should consider a better representative of Ferrari's lineup. Make sure you understand I think very highly of the Cyclone/Typhoon vehicles, they were very cool in their day.

The Syclone was only really better in a sprint. If that's all we're quantifying then it is a better vehicle. But take note of the trap speed. The Big Red One was at 99 mph vs. 93. That's really huge.

Take it to a road race course and the outcome would probably differ. Think so? Live axle/drum brakes would cause real issues, and that V6 Turbo quickly overheats if it's got stock cooling in place.

Many people were impressed that the brakes of the Syclone were 'better, also. But 4 feet from 70 is so close as to be a virtual draw. Let's try from 120. Even 140. Whoops, the S can only go 126.

So compare it to a pickup truck. Or a regular car. But not a Ferrari. That's only good to sell rags.
 
We've gotten way off topic....but what the heck.
I don't much care if a Syclone can beat my favorite older car, the Ferrari 308, in a drag race. That wasn't my point at all and I even mentioned that the 308 was never a 'super-car'. I just loved the looks and prestige that came with it. Look at it this way.....if somebody wanted to give you a mint condition 308 OR a Syclone, would you even have a need to think about which one you would prefer? To those that don't like Ferrari's (the always repeated 'it's too hard to work on'; 'too expensive to take care of', etc) that's fine. But I still love that car and would own one in a heartbeat....especially over a Syclone.
 
To be fair, I was making fun of my 10 year old self for being so easily influenced by just straight-line performance.

...but as far as holding it's value? I think the Lil'Red Express did pretty well. Probably not as well as the 308, but pretty darn good for a Chrysler product from the darkest days of American muscle.
 
Either the Camaro or the Mustang. I'm not one for V6 sports cars and face it - the Z just turns into and old Nissan whereas a Camaro or Mustang have heritage and will always have a following and parts available when they are really old. I never understood the Z car. They are nice, but not my cup of tea.
 
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Either the Camaro or the Mustang. I'm not one for V6 sports cars and face it - the Z just turns into and old Nissan whereas a Camaro or Mustang have heritage and will always have a following and parts available when they are really old. I never understood the Z car. They are nice, but not my cup of tea.


I disagree.

When I hear Paul Newman's name I don't think of salad dressing. I think "Cool Hand Luke" and a certain red white and blue #33 280ZX.

Perhaps you are not one for (V)6 sports/pony cars because only Pontiac ever bothered to use one (two actually) worth having. The '67-'69 Firebird had a 215hp OHC six. The '89 Trans Am could be purchased with a turbocharged Buick 231. Pontiac has joined the ranks of Plymouth, AMC, Studebaker...etc... so it doesn't really factor in.

Until the 3.6 Camaro/3.7 Mustang, neither model's V6 was particularly inspiring.

The 200/250 L6 in the early Mustangs (and a few '79-'80 models) was reliable but not perform well.
The MustangII's 60 degree, solid lifter, German V6 sounded the part, but it did not really perform.
The later Essex 3.8 and back to the Cologne SOHC 4.0 were pretty mediocre performers.

The Camaro had a 250 L6 boring. 229 V6? Boring. 60 degree 2.8-3.1-3.4? Boring. 231 3800? Meh....

In 1975 Nissan/Datsun may be the only company to increase hp from the previous year model.
Automobile Magazine ranked the 240Z as the 2nd most significant sports car of the '70s.
There are parts availiable for older Z-s

So the Z is not just an old Datsun/Nissan. It has it's place. I think even the old doorstop 300ZX from '83-'89 would hold it's value as well as any similar year/condition Mustang or Camaro. (a base 300ZX is probably worth more than a 2.8 Berlinetta or a 3.8 Mustang GLX)
 
I just happened to drive next to a 370Z on the way to work yesterday. Really a nice looking car in person....and most importantly, while moving down the highway. The back end was very nice. Wide and aggressive, yet elegant. Sort of reminded me of a Porsche. I liked the 350Z a lot....and had even driven one for a bit. But this 370 is even better looking AND performing. Yes, I would take one over a Mustang GT or a Camaro.
 
I have a track rat buddy who has a new 370z with a Nismo package on it. It drives VERY nicely, supremely responsive and driver pleasing. They do have issues at the HPDE's I go to.

I would also rate it slightly above a new Stang, which I love for the sheer power but am disappointed by the price and the rest of the package. These cars simply do not do well at the HPDE's I am at, as we sedan owners pass them at will!

I have driven every new Camaro except a ZL-1, and they really drive well even considering the porky weight. Being a Chevy is a huge consideration if I was keeping it long term.

Note that we have had a 350z in the family since late 05, and it is a nearly trouble free car, but it is not even in the same zip code as the 370z is!
 
BOSS 302
wink.gif
 
I would not consider the Nissan 370Z just for its V6 engine no matter how good it may be and the bath tub styling. The Mustang and Camaro V8's are almost a toss up...but I agree with the others that the Mustang is probably the better all around car since the 5.0 came out.

If you do decide to go back to a truck - there are some great deals out on extended cab GM trucks. The extended cabs (not 4dr crew) don't sell as well so they are high on rebates now. My friend just bought a highly optioned 2013 Silverado Texas Edition (basically just LTZ equipment with w/Texas edition badges) for $23,500 out the door. This is leather, rear camara, pretty well loaded. The sticker was $34k if I recall.
 
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