XOM recommends M1 EP for turbo engines?

[Swift101]

Quote:
Of course, M1 EP is better than M1. M1 EP has a lot of Group IV PAO and Group V in it -- higher-quality base oil. M1 is mostly Group III.

So, yes, M1 EP is better than M1 for turbo engines, as they demand higher-quality base oil.


That's good to know, I'll be picking some up for my stash since it's now the same price as regular M1.

-Thanks

 

[kschachn]

Really? I mean, who would have known, considering the manufacturer won't say and a VOA won't show it.

And even if it were - can you explain what difference that makes in terms of performance? Mobil's Visom is strikingly and significantly inferior to PAO? Because ExxonMobil says that it is not.

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Of course, M1 EP is better than M1. M1 EP has a lot of Group IV PAO and Group V in it -- higher-quality base oil. M1 is mostly Group III.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Really? I mean, who would have known, considering the manufacturer won't say and a VOA won't show it.

And even if it were - can you explain what difference that makes in terms of performance? Mobil's Visom is strikingly and significantly inferior to PAO? Because ExxonMobil says that it is not.

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Of course, M1 EP is better than M1. M1 EP has a lot of Group IV PAO and Group V in it -- higher-quality base oil. M1 is mostly Group III.

M1 EP has certainly more Group IV and/or V in it than M1, as evidenced by 8.5% NOACK for M1 EP 5W-30 vs. 10.1% NOACK of M1 5W-30. However, it still has a lot of Group III -- only more Group IV/V than for M1 but still mostly Group III.

Don't confuse Group III or Group III+ with GTL. While Pennzoil's GTL comes very close to Group IV PAO in resistance to oxidation (while it still cannot match it), Group III or III+ still falls considerably short of Group IV PAO in resistance to oxidation.

Carefully and systematically done Amsoil tests also show that M1 EP did poorly in engine cleanness and wear protection in comparison to Pennzoil, Valvoline, etc. So, according to Amsoil tests, you will be far better off with Pennzoil or Valvoline (or Amsoil of course) than with M1 EP. M1 EP is the worst in wear protection and second worst in engine cleanness among the ten oils studied.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Really? I mean, who would have known, considering the manufacturer won't say and a VOA won't show it.

And even if it were - can you explain what difference that makes in terms of performance? Mobil's Visom is strikingly and significantly inferior to PAO? Because ExxonMobil says that it is not.

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Of course, M1 EP is better than M1. M1 EP has a lot of Group IV PAO and Group V in it -- higher-quality base oil. M1 is mostly Group III.

M1 EP has certainly more Group IV and/or V in it than M1, as evidenced by 8.5% NOACK for M1 EP 5W-30 vs. 10.1% NOACK of M1 5W-30. However, it still has a lot of Group III -- only more Group IV/V than for M1 but still mostly Group III.

Don't confuse Group III or Group III+ with GTL. While Pennzoil's GTL comes very close to Group IV PAO in resistance to oxidation (while it still cannot match it), Group III or III+ still falls considerably short of Group IV PAO in resistance to oxidation.

Carefully and systematically done Amsoil tests also show that M1 EP did poorly in engine cleanness and wear protection in comparison to Pennzoil, Valvoline, etc. So, according to Amsoil tests, you will be far better off with Pennzoil or Valvoline (or Amsoil of course) than with M1 EP. M1 EP is the worst in wear protection and second worst in engine cleanness among the ten oils studied.


Don't forget that all M1 oils also contain grp 5 as well. We need to give out accurate info on this. Here is a link from Mobil tech showing this.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Does_Mobil_1_Contain_Ester_Oil.aspx

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Carefully and systematically done Amsoil tests also show that M1 EP did poorly in engine cleanness and wear protection in comparison to Pennzoil, Valvoline, etc. So, according to Amsoil tests, you will be far better off with Pennzoil or Valvoline (or Amsoil of course) than with M1 EP. M1 EP is the worst in wear protection and second worst in engine cleanness among the ten oils studied.


The second worst you say? Wow, I wish I would have known that when I started using it in my 1MZ-FE 15 years ago:

 

[Gokhan]

Well, I guess it could always be cleaner (less varnish) or show less wear. It's only the worst of the best.

Also note that the engine-deposits test done was TEOST, which is a rather extreme test especially useful for estimating the turbocharger protection.

 

[kschachn]

Actually that picture makes it look worse than it was. There was really very little varnish, the oil was at the end of its interval and it was pretty dark in color. That really dark area to the left is all pooled oil.

And wear? Well, I'm not sure how you measure that but the engine uses pretty much the same amount of oil between OCI as it always has (which is to say not a lot). When I use 5W-20 it uses a bit more, 5W-30 a bit less. Generally with 5W-30 I do not need to add makeup oil between changes, but I like 5W-20 in the winter for easy starts.

And I'll also say that in terms of an extreme environment the 1MZ-FE from this year is pretty tough on oil. The PCV system is impaired, the engine runs very hot, and those gears on the camshafts shear the oil pretty good.

 

[Gokhan]

I wonder why M1 EP and Castrol Edge FST did so much worse than the other oils in the four-ball wear test -- assuming that the tests were done right. I would think that M1 EP's trinuclear moly would protect really well as an extreme-pressure additive in that test.

Perhaps it's because Group IV PAO that may be in significant concentrations in M1 EP and Castrol Edge FST has much lower oil-film strength (lower pressure - viscosity coefficient) than Group III? I don't know.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
So, according to Amsoil tests, you will be far better off with Pennzoil or Valvoline (or Amsoil of course) than with M1 EP. M1 EP is the worst in wear protection and second worst in engine cleanness among the ten oils studied.

I think we're making some conclusions that are a bit of a stretch for the given data. The real alarming thing should be the performance in the four ball wear test.