Woman intentionally runs over & kills motorcyclist

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
I wouldn't recommend anyone slapping a car being macho about a lane, someone inside may very well have a gun and a short temper


Sometimes, you have to do whatever works, to get the attention of brain dead drivers. Given a choice between being crushed by a vehicle changing lanes over me, or slapping the car window......Well, I am writing this, so I will just say, slapping a window can be preferable.

If you think it is better to stay quiet, and wind up under a couple of tons of badly driven iron......Well, we all make choices.


So, you're saying that you would slap my window to get my attention?!?

Slapping a window is aggressive, provocative behavior...

You should realize that making physical contact is assault...further, you just might trip my threat triangle: ability, opportunity, intent.

Recalling the guy who was chased down, dragged out of his car and beaten by a group of motorcycle riders in New York last year...I am compelled to take intentional physical contact with my car as intent to harm me. And if a rider caused me to believe that he intended me harm, I am perfectly, completely justified in using lethal force to end that threat.

And despite my extensive training in close range shooting with a pistol, I would chose the immediate, more effective 4,000 lb weapon with which to defend myself from your assault...you are not likely to survive if I think you're a threat.

Use your horn if you want my attention. That's what it's there for.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Even if he kicked her car due to road rage, it' NO excuse to murder somebody over. Really guys, get a logical perspective. She has ZERO excuse for her actions, and him riding a motorcycle doesn't give her the right to run him over. No different than running down a pedestrian on purpose. She ran over him in a fit of rage. Why do you think she was charged with murder by the highway patrol.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
And despite my extensive training in close range shooting with a pistol, I would chose the immediate, more effective 4,000 lb weapon with which to defend myself from your assault...you are not likely to survive if I think you're a threat.


So you're gonna use your vehicle as a deadly weapon because somebody slapped your window or even kicked your door? Ya, you're life is surely in danger if somebody touches your vehicle while driving down the road locked inside it - get the logic? Might as well just shoot somebody if they look at you wrong. People need to get a grip on reality before they find yourselves sitting in a jail cell.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: 02SE
I'm not assuming anything. I simply stated that the only way she would be justified in running him down and murdering him, would be if he was attempting to use deadly force on her. So, unless he was actively shooting at her, there is no justification for her murderous act.


Exactly ... she committed 2nd degree murder, maybe even 1st degree murder is she had time to formulate a plan to kill this guy with her car.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: geeman789
And don't ever brake test a car while riding a bike... that is about THE STUPIDEST thing you can ever do... ! One report says the rider did just that.


If the motorcyclist was playing games like that, then yes he was not very smart - as mentioned the car will always win in a collision. Still, in order for him to do that, she was obviously the aggressor at that point and chasing him down ... if that's even possible on a Ducati.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
He made the CHOICE to ride a motorcycle. He was road raging with a person in a VEHICLE.


He was responsible for his death. If they had separated after the incident, that would have been the best.

Everyone knows you are less protected riding a motorcycle vs a automobile.

That is like if I flew over to ISIS unarmed and tell a militant officer armed with machetes and guns how awesome the U.S. is, then we get in a fight, what do you think would happen once escalated? Would you all be boo hooing for me if I got killed?

I knew the dangers, but took the risk, motorcyclist know the dangers, and take the risk. You want to road rage with machines that can kill you, go for it.


Good post.


It's a [censored] post. You hit someone with your vehicle, *you* are responsible.

 

[GiveMeAVowel]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix


So you're gonna use your vehicle as a deadly weapon because somebody slapped your window or even kicked your door? Ya, you're life is surely in danger if somebody touches your vehicle while driving down the road locked inside it - get the logic? Might as well just shoot somebody if they look at you wrong. People need to get a grip on reality before they find yourselves sitting in a jail cell.


Yes, who's to say that moron isn't going to pull a gun after he kicks the door in rage? Get real....I say once you touch my private property and I perceive it as a potential threat to my well being
I might just run you over. Do I want to ? No. But a threat is a threat...kicking the door or hitting my window is an aggressive and provocative move and will be defending against it.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
She'll get 3 months in jail, 2 years probation, 3 years no license.
You reviewed the statute, did you?

 

[Noobie]

They should hang her. Killing someone because of a road rage incident?
What the . . .
We dont need her to spread her genes.

 

[HTSS_TR]

From my point of view the woman driver is 100% at fault for deliberately running over the motorcyclist, regardless of his occupation.

I always give all the room possible for any motorcyclist on any road, regardless of what they were doing. The only possible different is if they try to harm me with a gun or other deadly weapons.

 

[RISUPERCREWMAN]

For all of you Idiots who think that just because of a road rage incident a biker is responsible for his own death when he was obviously struck from behind? Are you #%^# kidding me? The fact that this rider was an American Hero who dedicated his life to serving his country proudly just makes it even sadder! I say give her the Death Penalty!
Case closed & yes I am a biker too!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix


So you're gonna use your vehicle as a deadly weapon because somebody slapped your window or even kicked your door? Ya, you're life is surely in danger if somebody touches your vehicle while driving down the road locked inside it - get the logic? Might as well just shoot somebody if they look at you wrong. People need to get a grip on reality before they find yourselves sitting in a jail cell.


Yes, who's to say that moron isn't going to pull a gun after he kicks the door in rage? Get real....I say once you touch my private property and I perceive it as a potential threat to my well being
I might just run you over. Do I want to ? No. But a threat is a threat...kicking the door or hitting my window is an aggressive and provocative move and will be defending against it.


You'll ruin your life and be sitting in jail due to an idiotic move like just like this woman will experience. She's probably sitting in jail right now thinking how utterly stupid she was. No going back now!

Now IF he pulled a gun out and started shooting, then by all means run him over if you can't get away. You just can't kill somebody because you think he might do something more than touch your car ... that's an idiotic mentality.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: eljefino
She'll get 3 months in jail, 2 years probation, 3 years no license.
You reviewed the statute, did you?


She'll get way more than that because she most likely intentionally ran him over. Maybe plea temporary insanity. Even if it was a complete accident she would be charged with manslaughter. And not to mention the family will undoubtedly go for a wrongful death suit on this. Her life will utterly be destroyed over a stupid road rage decision by her - and rightly so. Actions still have consequences under the laws in this country.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Astro14
And despite my extensive training in close range shooting with a pistol, I would chose the immediate, more effective 4,000 lb weapon with which to defend myself from your assault...you are not likely to survive if I think you're a threat.


So you're gonna use your vehicle as a deadly weapon because somebody slapped your window or even kicked your door? Ya, you're life is surely in danger if somebody touches your vehicle while driving down the road locked inside it - get the logic? Might as well just shoot somebody if they look at you wrong. People need to get a grip on reality before they find yourselves sitting in a jail cell.


Nope...the reality grip is this: If you threaten someone, you may provoke a defensive response.

Slapping my window? Not certain how I might take that...not certain how anyone would take that...might provoke a defensive response...might not...

If you ride (and I used to, so hear me out), you need to consider how your actions might be interpreted.

If you meet my threat criteria, I will use necessary and proportional force to respond to that threat. That's how self defense is determined...and it would be up to the DA to determine if they thought my response was warranted...I would encourage you to consult with an attorney on how self defense works...it's important to understand that the determination is based on what a reasonable person would do, knowing only what the person in question knew at the time. Any post-incident information is irrelevant...like your military service, or your upstanding record as a citizen...the only reasonable criteria are what your actions looked like to the person that you assaulted...

But while the deliberation on the merits of my actions takes place, your family would be planning your funeral.

Slapping a window is provocative, like it or not. You might not like what happens if you provoke someone...you're the one with a tactical disadvantage...and avoiding provocation is in your best interest...

 

[Nate1979]

Chasing someone down and killing them is not defensive. It has turned offensive. You make a choice to either attack or turn the other direction. If the person has moved on and is not a direct threat to you and then you chase and kill them that is your fault.
Can she get the death penalty?

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: RISUPERCREWMAN
For all of you Idiots who think that just because of a road rage incident a biker is responsible for his own death when he was obviously struck from behind? Are you #%^# kidding me? The fact that this rider was an American Hero who dedicated his life to serving his country proudly just makes it even sadder! I say give her the Death Penalty!
Case closed & yes I am a biker too!


I disagree that he is a hero...you have no way to know that. I have no reason to believe that this sailor was a hero, nor do I have reason to believe that he was a jerk...but he had a duty to drive responsibly, and to behave reasonably, and to disengage if possible.

Before we categorize all service members as "heros", let me point out that some of the worst, most aggressive, road-rage moron driving happens near my house, in Virginia Beach...home of several navy bases...

It's quite surprising what people do when they think they're anonymous behind the wheel of a car...

I observed a road-raging sailor on Shore Drive (between my house and Little Creek Amphibious Base) on morning...cutting people off, weaving in and out of traffic at 20 over...following literally inches behind other cars...

An "American Hero"? Hardly...he was a young moron who thought he was anonymous...until I pulled up next to him outside of his squadron at Little Creek...he got quite a bit ahead of me on Shore Drive, but I am used to keeping sight of fast moving targets...and it didn't take me long to find his truck on base...

After identifying myself by name (my rank was quite visible on my jacket) we went in and had a chat with his Master Chief...about how the sticker on his truck, and his uniform, identified him to the public as a US Navy sailor. How his actions reflected discredit on the service and himself.

 

[Quattro Pete]

All I'm going to say about this incident is don't pick a fight with someone much larger than you. When it comes to bikes vs. cars, the former will always lose, regardless of who's at fault. It's not worth it.

It doesn't help you much that "it was not your fault" when you're in a coffin.

 

[bbhero]

If you make slapping or kicking a car equivalent to a "threat" to your life than there is no help for you. Period. A real threat chief is actually having a real weapon that CAN cause serious bodily harm or death. A kick to a car or a slap does not warrant a deadly response. Now if this guy had a tire iron and was using that.... And repeatedly... OK. Maybe... But a three thousand pound vehicle is a FAR more dangerous weapon in the hands of a psychopath like this lady. A real threat that can actually seriously hurt someone... Yeah I and just about everyone would be with you. Would you shoot an unarmed man in a t shirt with no weapon who happened to be kicking the side of your house ?? Ahh I hope not. Now if said person was kicking in your door to gain access than that's a whole other matter.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

You'll ruin your life and be sitting in jail due to an idiotic move like just like this woman will experience. She's probably sitting in jail right now thinking how utterly stupid she was. No going back now!

Now IF he pulled a gun out and started shooting, then by all means run him over if you can't get away. You just can't kill somebody because you think he might do something more than touch your car ... that's an idiotic mentality.


I would not, nor am I required to, wait until someone starts shooting in order to defend myself.

If you present a threat, then proportional force is legitimate in defense against that threat.

I don't know exactly what your intentions are when you slap my window. The threat is presented when a person has the ability (you've got that), the opportunity (you've got that too, you're close enough to slap my car), and the intent (what's the intent behind the provocative action?).

So, you're betting your life that I will interpret your intent (to get my attention) as you perceive it...but I might not...I might find that your slapping of the window is escalatory, that you mean to do me harm...and in that interpretation, my self-defense is reasonable.

And since we're talking about me here, the response would be swift and deliberate. I wouldn't chase you down, because you would no longer have the opportunity, and so the threat would be over.

I also wouldn't give you much time to continue to threaten me...so, your best bet is to leave me alone, or leave me in your dust, which is easily done on a motorcycle...

But to bet your life on my interpretation of your aggressive action?

That's foolish...

You would be far better served to use your horn, or avoid my blind spot, or any of a number of defensive riding measures before taking provocative action...again, provoking people is not a good way to life a long, and uninjured, life...

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: RISUPERCREWMAN
For all of you Idiots who think that just because of a road rage incident a biker is responsible for his own death when he was obviously struck from behind? Are you #%^# kidding me? The fact that this rider was an American Hero who dedicated his life to serving his country proudly just makes it even sadder! I say give her the Death Penalty!
Case closed & yes I am a biker too!


After reading this whole thread I'm most in agreement with this comment.

He was gone. She chased him down. That isn't defence. It's an offensive move that he may not even have seen coming.
Having been hit by moving vehicles more than once I know what it feels like to not see it coming.