Wix vs Wix XP Oil Filters

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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Phishin
I have a hard time believing that Wix makes a filter that is so much inferior than Fram and Amsoil.


In my mind the Wix XP is every bit as good (probably better) as the Fram Ultra, but I have no way to prove it.



We all know what goes on in your mind Merk...




10w30 is the only 30 grade that should be used, 5w30 and 0w30 are the devils liquid!

No varnish is allowed! Must change oil every 3,000 miles max!

Wix XP is better than Fram Ultra even though all technical and visual information disagrees.





That about covers it?
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: Phishin


I have a hard time believing that Wix makes a filter that is so much inferior than Fram and Amsoil.


It's really simple, Wix is trying to make as much money per filter as possible. If you cut open to Ultra, Amsoil EAO, and Wix XP side by side you see the Ultra has two layers of media about equal to the thickness of Amsoils single layer of synthetic media, but compare them both to the Wix XP and it's a thin single layer of synthetic media.

It's clear they are saving tons of money on these filters by using combo valves and thinner media while charging MORE per filter than the Ultras unless you find a sale.


Looks like they wanted to jump on the "synthetic marketing" bandwagon and get a piece of the pie as cheap as possible.


I'm lost.

What page is this on in the FRAM marketing handbook?
 
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: Phishin


I have a hard time believing that Wix makes a filter that is so much inferior than Fram and Amsoil.


It's really simple, Wix is trying to make as much money per filter as possible. If you cut open to Ultra, Amsoil EAO, and Wix XP side by side you see the Ultra has two layers of media about equal to the thickness of Amsoils single layer of synthetic media, but compare them both to the Wix XP and it's a thin single layer of synthetic media.

It's clear they are saving tons of money on these filters by using combo valves and thinner media while charging MORE per filter than the Ultras unless you find a sale.


Looks like they wanted to jump on the "synthetic marketing" bandwagon and get a piece of the pie as cheap as possible.


I'm lost.

What page is this on in the FRAM marketing handbook?


If Fram would give me a job, I wouldn't turn it down. I work in a pizza factory!
 
Know what I find ironic? That we sit around here and love to pontificate about the potential success or failure of any particular product, but none of us has credible data to back it up.

I have, upon occasion, thrown this out, and will do so again ...

There are PLENTY of us here that would be able to pitch in just $20 each, and put enough money together to send off some filters of dubious repute to a proper, qualified testing lab. There is power in numbers. I would suggest a trusted member to hold the funds in escrow until the task is at hand. And I would suggest a "board" of a few folks who have sensible, non-brand-bias positions to help field the efforts.

Of all the filters we sit here and discuss REPEATEDLY from week to week, the XP/NP line is one of the more confounded ones. That is the one I'd like REAL data on. I trust that the Fram TG and FU are 99% or darn close to it. I find the Wix/NG certainly plausible at 95%. But the XP/NP simply astounds me at it's lack of performance. And I, for one, would like the TRUTH, even if Wix is unwilling to provide it.


Come on, guys. There has got to be enough purchasing power here to make this happen. Or, are we just a bunch of whiners who like to stay on the porch? Know what else is ironic? That MANY folks here will pay for "cheap insurance" to run syns and super premium filters for 5k mile OCIs, but would never be willing to pay $20 into a collective fund to actually find out real data. They'd rather pay money (waste) to make themselves feel good, than spend money for real information that would contribute to the greater good of knowledge base.

I will offer to research and help the group/board select a test lab.


If we don't do this, then my suggestion is to never bring this XP efficiency question up again. If we are unwilling to find the real truth on our own, then we are only left with the dribble Wix spouts.



Simply stated:
Put up or shut up.
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
.....It's clear they are saving tons of money on these filters by using combo valves......

This is at least the second time recently that you have posted this bogus information as regards the topic'd WixXP/(NP) and now Wix/(NG) branded/labeled filters. As I said previously, I'm not sure from whom or where you are obtaining your information (though I think I have a good idea because I've read the same inaccurate information posted on other message boards and youtubes by a recognizable poster), but it is incorrect.

No current Wix branded/labeled automotive application filter uses a combo valve. And no WixXP or NapaPlatinum uses a combo valve either. The Wix XP and Napa Platinum line use separate dome end bypass.

Also again, if you have an authoritative link proving the combo valve allegation post it up. Otherwise I take this to be nothing more than unproven internet tripe posted with an agenda.

As for the assertion about Wix making as much money as possible, I'm unaware of any company that isn't in business to make a profit. And that would include Fram, the company you now regularly shill for on this board.
 
I'd contribute $20 to the cause. Let me know how and where to donate.

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Know what I find ironic? That we sit around here and love to pontificate about the potential success or failure of any particular product, but none of us has credible data to back it up.

I have, upon occasion, thrown this out, and will do so again ...

There are PLENTY of us here that would be able to pitch in just $20 each, and put enough money together to send off some filters of dubious repute to a proper, qualified testing lab. There is power in numbers. I would suggest a trusted member to hold the funds in escrow until the task is at hand. And I would suggest a "board" of a few folks who have sensible, non-brand-bias positions to help field the efforts.

Of all the filters we sit here and discuss REPEATEDLY from week to week, the XP/NP line is one of the more confounded ones. That is the one I'd like REAL data on. I trust that the Fram TG and FU are 99% or darn close to it. I find the Wix/NG certainly plausible at 95%. But the XP/NP simply astounds me at it's lack of performance. And I, for one, would like the TRUTH, even if Wix is unwilling to provide it.


Come on, guys. There has got to be enough purchasing power here to make this happen. Or, are we just a bunch of whiners who like to stay on the porch? Know what else is ironic? That MANY folks here will pay for "cheap insurance" to run syns and super premium filters for 5k mile OCIs, but would never be willing to pay $20 into a collective fund to actually find out real data. They'd rather pay money (waste) to make themselves feel good, than spend money for real information that would contribute to the greater good of knowledge base.

I will offer to research and help the group/board select a test lab.


If we don't do this, then my suggestion is to never bring this XP efficiency question up again. If we are unwilling to find the real truth on our own, then we are only left with the dribble Wix spouts.



Simply stated:
Put up or shut up.
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
.....It's clear they are saving tons of money on these filters by using combo valves......

This is at least the second time recently that you have posted this bogus information as regards the topic'd WixXP/(NP) and now Wix/(NG) branded/labeled filters. As I said previously, I'm not sure from whom or where you are obtaining your information (though I think I have a good idea because I've read the same inaccurate information posted on other message boards and youtubes by a recognizable poster), but it is incorrect.

No current Wix branded/labeled automotive application filter uses a combo valve. And no WixXP or NapaPlatinum uses a combo valve either. The Wix XP and Napa Platinum line use separate dome end bypass.

Also again, if you have an authoritative link proving the combo valve allegation post it up. Otherwise I take this to be nothing more than unproven internet tripe posted with an agenda.

As for the assertion about Wix making as much money as possible, I'm unaware of any company that isn't in business to make a profit. And that would include Fram, the company you now regularly shill for on this board.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
.....It's clear they are saving tons of money on these filters by using combo valves......

This is at least the second time recently that you have posted this bogus information as regards the topic'd WixXP/(NP) and now Wix/(NG) branded/labeled filters. As I said previously, I'm not sure from whom or where you are obtaining your information (though I think I have a good idea because I've read the same inaccurate information posted on other message boards and youtubes by a recognizable poster), but it is incorrect.

No current Wix branded/labeled automotive application filter uses a combo valve. And no WixXP or NapaPlatinum uses a combo valve either. The Wix XP and Napa Platinum line use separate dome end bypass.

Also again, if you have an authoritative link proving the combo valve allegation post it up. Otherwise I take this to be nothing more than unproven internet tripe posted with an agenda.

As for the assertion about Wix making as much money as possible, I'm unaware of any company that isn't in business to make a profit. And that would include Fram, the company you now regularly shill for on this board.


You think just because they introduced the filter with a dome end bypass they kept the lineup the same? I believe they use different setups depending on the filter model. Some of the filters have apparently ended up with combo valves while others have dome or none.

Obviously some of the GM applications have no bypass valve at all since the bypass is in thebblock and thus should exceed the beta ratios posted for the entire lineup.

Unfortunately It's hard to Google pictures for Wix XP since most results end up as failed "Windows XP" hit. Maybe someone here has cut a combo valve XP model for you to believe it. I will try to find one with a combo valve and cut it open.
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Know what I find ironic? That we sit around here and love to pontificate about the potential success or failure of any particular product, but none of us has credible data to back it up.

I have, upon occasion, thrown this out, and will do so again ...

There are PLENTY of us here that would be able to pitch in just $20 each, and put enough money together to send off some filters of dubious repute to a proper, qualified testing lab. There is power in numbers. I would suggest a trusted member to hold the funds in escrow until the task is at hand. And I would suggest a "board" of a few folks who have sensible, non-brand-bias positions to help field the efforts.

Of all the filters we sit here and discuss REPEATEDLY from week to week, the XP/NP line is one of the more confounded ones. That is the one I'd like REAL data on. I trust that the Fram TG and FU are 99% or darn close to it. I find the Wix/NG certainly plausible at 95%. But the XP/NP simply astounds me at it's lack of performance. And I, for one, would like the TRUTH, even if Wix is unwilling to provide it.


Come on, guys. There has got to be enough purchasing power here to make this happen. Or, are we just a bunch of whiners who like to stay on the porch? Know what else is ironic? That MANY folks here will pay for "cheap insurance" to run syns and super premium filters for 5k mile OCIs, but would never be willing to pay $20 into a collective fund to actually find out real data. They'd rather pay money (waste) to make themselves feel good, than spend money for real information that would contribute to the greater good of knowledge base.

I will offer to research and help the group/board select a test lab.


If we don't do this, then my suggestion is to never bring this XP efficiency question up again. If we are unwilling to find the real truth on our own, then we are only left with the dribble Wix spouts.



Simply stated:
Put up or shut up.
I'll supply the filters-I picked up a couple of NAPA Platinums (same as the XP) for the Cummins when they were on sale-and I'll throw in a Fram Ultra for the same application. I'm running the Fleetguard Stratapore Venturis on it, & I have enough of those to last longer than the Ram body likely will! If Dave can raise the money, I'll send them to him to be tested.
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
...I believe they use different setups depending on the filter model. Some of the filters have apparently ended up with combo valves while others have dome or none....

Unless it's just what you "believe" then you should be able to prove it since you would have seen it on a specific XP or Napa Platinum. But since you obviously can't then all you have again is unproven conjecture. As for those with no bypass, as those would be applications that use block bypass that is not pertinent to the combo valve assertion/discussion. And that would be the same no matter the manufacturer.

And while used XP dissections images may be difficult to find, it's Napa Platinum clone is available for viewing from right here on Bitog as linked below, and by googling Napa Platinum oil filter using images. All bitog threads show dome bypass and never a combo valve. The 41372 linked is a filter integral bypass application so dome bypass used in both NG and NP. In addition to bitog there's a corvette forum image entry also showing NP dome bypass. No combo valves to be found. All dome bypass as advertised.

Perhaps whoever is providing your information can point you toward the alleged Wix XP/Napa Platinum applications you believe are using a combo valve.

But since combo valves have been brought up, Fram uses them in some applications. The Fram Core filters used in Wally TLE's, the Fram Defense line and Firestone filters under the Fram name all use combo valves in many ecores.


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2323101

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2542732

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3058278


From first link
nb2721.jpg
 
I am willing to bet if WIX is saying the filter is only 50% efficient, then it probably is.. Nothing else to see IMO.

Seeing how this filter is at the bottom of the barrel, any other filter would be a better value. If a longer OCI is desired, the D+, Ultra, M1, and Puro Synthetic are all available for less. They are easier to find too.. for me at least.
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Is there a reputable third party place to have these tested Dave?



Sure; many. Ryco, Peders, and SWRI all come to mind. There are plenty of others.

What I suspect is that we'll not come up with the funds, despite having 50k members here. Even at a buck a head, we'll fall short because most here would prefer to argue their opinion than actually find the reality. We'd be lucky to cross the $100 mark in donations.
 
I can assure you i am in no way intentionally trying to post false information.

The Napa Platinum filter thread in question is from 2011, i am guessing they changed the design since then. When i get more information i will report back with the model number.
 
So your now saying there is a bitog thread that might show one Napa Platinum (not the Wix XP) from 2011 that shows a combo valve being used on an NP. Never seen it. But do post it up if you ever find it. The first virgin NP link I posted is from 2011 an afaik and have seen, it is the first seen here. Others are from 12 and 13 show the same. And an XP/NP using a combo valve is nowhere to be seen using google images either. As said, dome end bypass is standard.

As for testing some filters for ISO efficiency, I like the idea and would contribute if reasonable. That said, in 2011 ZO6 inquired at SWRI about their testing price, as linked below it was costly. Unless the other labs mentioned are significantly less, way out of my league.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ish#Post2427888

As for XP efficiency, if one accepts what Wix has said and don't like it, don't use it. If not, use it and don't give it a second thought. Simple.
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
So your now saying there is a bitog thread that might show one Napa Platinum (not the Wix XP) from 2011 that shows a combo valve being used on an NP. Never seen it. But do post it up if you ever find it. The first virgin NP link I posted is from 2011 an afaik and have seen, it is the first seen here. Others are from 12 and 13 show the same. And an XP/NP using a combo valve is nowhere to be seen using google images either. As said, dome end bypass is standard.

As for testing some filters for ISO efficiency, I like the idea and would contribute if reasonable. That said, in 2011 ZO6 inquired at SWRI about their testing price, as linked below it was costly. Unless the other labs mentioned are significantly less, way out of my league.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ish#Post2427888

As for XP efficiency, if one accepts what Wix has said and don't like it, don't use it. If not, use it and don't give it a second thought. Simple.



No sorry you've misunderstood my previous post. I was mentioning how the picture you posted seems to be from 2011. I was suggesting that Wix may now use the combo valve since so much time has passed since they introduced the synthetic lineup. Also I'm guessing it varies depending on the filter model.

I am in process of getting some more information but it looks like it's going to be a few days according to my sources email reply.
 
Quote:
No sorry you've misunderstood my previous post. I was mentioning how the picture you posted seems to be from 2011. I was suggesting that Wix may now use the combo valve since so much time has passed since they introduced the synthetic lineup. Also I'm guessing it varies depending on the filter model.

You said the Napa Platinum thread "in question"? To my knowledge that thread was never "in question". It was posted as but one example proving dome end bypass. And as also stated the other links are more recently from 2012 and the last from 2013 also confirming dome end bypass. So I've backed my statements with confirmation from many years not strictly the one pic from 2011 as you imply. Linked below is another thread from late 2013 that also shows dome bypass the last linked pic by the OP. Won't bother wasting bandwidth posting another pic as it shows the same result as the pic posted above.

Napa Platinum 41334 Cut Open last pic showing dome bypass 10/10/2013.

Be interesting to see your stealth email source do the work to deliver the unicorn that apparently you are unable to. Seems my first post regarding the sourcing of information was not off the mark. But for some here, it's not so stealth.
56.gif
 
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Phishin
He also stated that the XP line (Napa Platinum) was designed to go for long OCI's and you can't have a super high efficiency rating on a filter going on some long runs, otherwise it would plug up.

He stated that filters that claim 99% efficiency (or something similar) can only be run for typical and stardard OCI lengths unless the engine is absolutely spotless and doesn't shed much metal or create a large amount of solid particulates (contaminates).


Hummm ... well that sounds like a good explanation to make excuses for the bottom rated efficiency of their XP. So the Purolator Synthetic and Fram Ultra are both rated for long OCIs (10K and 15K respectively), and they both have an efficiency about twice the XP.


With clean oil, you are correct. High efficiency media works great.

But no filter would work just great too with clean oil.

But Wix is trying to tell you that if you actually need real filtration on your 15,000 mile run, high efficiency media may result in a plugged filter and bypass operation.

You'll find the same discussion in filter information from Cummins Fleetguard.

Toyota and other auto manufacturers must agree with Wix when you look at the efficiency of their 10,000 mile rated filters.

It's very possible when we have seen FRAM Ultras collapsed in use (like the BMW filter), it's this scenario that we are seeing.


Purolator and Fram are not going to rate their much more efficient filters to the OCIs they do if they were going to plug up. Their designers are smart enough to know there would be some level of debris loading, and that that into account when coming up with an mileage use rating.

If you know how the ISO 4548-12 test is ran, you would see that loading and filter bypassing specs are part of that test, and both Purolator and Fram use that ISO test to rate their filters. WIX doesn't even reference a test spec for their filters.
 
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