Wix or Motorcraft?

[cp3]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The filter does essentially have a bypass valve when mounted to the engine. The PSID across the filter will still actuate the bypass valve if too high. Point was, the PL14006 would flow 12 GPM of hot oil with ~5 PSID, which is still below the 8~10 psi setting of the bypass valve built into to engine block on an LS series GM V8.


I got it, just being funny. However, with out knowing the output of the pump, it's a guess isn't it? I found a GM Tech Link today that said the LSA oil pump has a capacity of 33.8 gpm. I realize this isn't an average LS but how much lower would a "run of the mill" LS be?


Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Nope ... you would never know without testing both on the same flow bench under the same oil viscosity and flow conditions. The spec of "9-11 GPM max" doesn't say much unless it's assumed that is the flow rate of hot oil in a brand new filter at which the by-pass valve starts to open.


Ya the bench test would be awesome. I was thinking if we knew the pump output and could compare PSID but if we had a PSID graph for the Wix we'd have our answer, wouldn't we.

As far as the gpm max, I was assuming that it was the max that the element could flow.

Sorry, not trying at all to be difficult, just to understand and learn.

 

[modularv8]

Aware of this (work @ SWRI); RVOP was not mentioned. I personally doubt it is that high, but I have never tested this particular oil filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: cp3
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The filter does essentially have a bypass valve when mounted to the engine. The PSID across the filter will still actuate the bypass valve if too high. Point was, the PL14006 would flow 12 GPM of hot oil with ~5 PSID, which is still below the 8~10 psi setting of the bypass valve built into to engine block on an LS series GM V8.


I got it, just being funny. However, with out knowing the output of the pump, it's a guess isn't it? I found a GM Tech Link today that said the LSA oil pump has a capacity of 33.8 gpm. I realize this isn't an average LS but how much lower would a "run of the mill" LS be?


That oil pump output spec is probably with unregulated output pressure. Realize that once the pump's pressure relief valve opens and regulates the maximum pressure, then that (in conjunction with the flow resistance of the engine oil circuit) will determine the point of max oil flow to the engine, not the max capability of the pump in an unregulated mode.

The amount of actual GPM flow that goes through the filter/engine circuit is dependent on the flow resistance of that circuit, the oil viscosity and the supply pressure from the oil pump. The engine will typically be 15 times more restrictive than the filter. So if an engine's oiling circuit is pretty restrictive, the oil pump will jump up to it's max pressure relief setting pretty fast and there really won't be much oil volume going through the engine. The majority of the pump's output could be shutting back to the sump. There's a difference on how an oil pump really works on an engine vs. how it might work on a test bench unless the bench simulated the engine oiling circuit resistance realistically.

Originally Posted By: cp3
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Nope ... you would never know without testing both on the same flow bench under the same oil viscosity and flow conditions. The spec of "9-11 GPM max" doesn't say much unless it's assumed that is the flow rate of hot oil in a brand new filter at which the by-pass valve starts to open.


Ya the bench test would be awesome. I was thinking if we knew the pump output and could compare PSID but if we had a PSID graph for the Wix we'd have our answer, wouldn't we.


Exactly ... but even not knowing the pump's output to the engine while using a flow/PSID bench would still show which filters were less restrictive than others under the same test conditions. And knowing their bypass valve setting would show how much head room you might have before a bypass event would occur for a specific filter. That could be valuable information alone.

Originally Posted By: cp3
As far as the gpm max, I was assuming that it was the max that the element could flow.

Sorry, not trying at all to be difficult, just to understand and learn.


Yes, the "GPM Max" spec is probably the most it will flow with hot oil before the PSID causes the bypass valve to start opening ... that would be my guess.

 

[cp3]

Got it! Thanx

So who's going to set up a BITOG filter flow test bench?

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
...Yes, the "GPM Max" spec is probably the most it will flow with hot oil before the PSID causes the bypass valve to start opening ... that would be my guess.

Well the Wix I used (51348) says 7-9 GPM, and 8-11 PSI bypass, FWIW. I think they bypass more often than we think, not that it matters.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: cp3
I see the same thing except with out ordering online Wix or Gold is $10+, more for ACDelco. Best I've found is the Baldwin for $5.60. These are all the spin on for the G6. Never priced the Motorcraft, not sure I could bring myself to put one on a GM, even though I have no doubt they are a good filter.


The cheapest I could find online in Canada were the Bosch Premiums from Autopartsway for under $5 for the G37. If I don't need something else, though, shipping doesn't do me any favours. You should put some Motorcrafts on your GM. I put a lot of AC Delcos on my LTD years back, so we have to even things out somehow.

 

[Izb]

Originally Posted By: modularv8

Quote:
I AM inquisitive, sometime to the point of annoying people, which is not my intent here. I just like knowing these kinds of things and it helps justify my belief that Motorcraft really IS the best choice for my Fords.


I believe it is from what I have seen and read. It is designed around the characteristics of each engine application. Although some would debate, I believe the location of the bypass valve does make a difference. Filters go into bypass more often (especially in winter) than people realize. Not all particles embed into the media and filter orientation is irrelevant. When the bypass opens in the dome end, the oil stream will draw "loose" accumulated contaminants back into the engine.

Quote:
Can you give a few examples of what those specific filters and their efficiency ratings are?


I was referring to the Motorcraft filter publication (2005) that alot folks cite for filter efficiencies.

Quote:
From the general research I've done, it seems the MPFE is typically a little lower than the SPFE.


The MPFE test gives the filter media multiple opportunities to capture particles in the recirculated stream, therefore it generates a higher efficiency rating. The 99.9% filter efficiency rating that Purolator advertises on their site for their PureOne oil filter is the result of a Multi-Pass Filter Efficiency test. Per their site, the 99.9% filtering efficiency is "Based on ISO 4548-12 at 20 microns on PL30001"
ISO 4548-12 is a MPFE test.

"This part of ISO 4548 specifies a multi-pass filtration test with continuous contaminant injection and using the online particle counting method for evaluating the performance of full-flow lubricating oil filters for internal combustion engines.

The test procedure determines the contaminant capacity of a filter, its particulate removal characteristics and differential pressure.

This test is intended for application to filter elements having a rated flow between 4 l/min and 600 l/min and with an efficiency of less than 99 % at a particle size greater than 10 µm.

This test is intended for application to filter elements having a rated flow between 4 l/min and 600 l/min and with an efficiency of less than 99 % at a particle size greater than 10 µm."

Source: Industry Standards and Regulations.



Who (of manufacturers) does use SPFE efficiency and who does use MPFE (ISO 4548-12)specification?
- Purolator
- Bosch
- M1 EP
- Amsoil
- Royal Purple
- WIX
- FRAM
- AFE
- K&N

Purolator Pure One 99.9% - MPFE
AMSOIL EaO - MPFE
M1- MPFE
WIX - SPFE?
Motorcraft - SPFE?
...

I am sure it is correct to compare filtration efficiency only common method (MPFE or SPFE)