Will we mourn the passing of real automatic trans?
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Drove a Maxima recently, and they have tuned their CVT to have "gears" in sports auto, less so in normal auto, and moreso in "manual"...which to me has demonstrated that an innovative tuning of them CAN make them fun...IMO, when treated in this fashion, they make more sense than the dual clutch multi gear trannies.
How real do the ersatz shifts feel? Would a a gearhead be fooled into thinking it's a conventional automatic transmission? Is it more of an audio sensation or are there shift shocks?
Drove a Maxima recently, and they have tuned their CVT to have "gears" in sports auto, less so in normal auto, and moreso in "manual"...which to me has demonstrated that an innovative tuning of them CAN make them fun...IMO, when treated in this fashion, they make more sense than the dual clutch multi gear trannies.
How real do the ersatz shifts feel? Would a a gearhead be fooled into thinking it's a conventional automatic transmission? Is it more of an audio sensation or are there shift shocks?
I prefer a stepped feel, so have preferred a conventional automatic so far. I've owned and have driven manual transmissions, and I enjoy them for certain vehicles. But I don't have to have one for my daily driver, and in fact, prefer an automatic in a daily driver. I've driven a few CVTs...Priuses, Ford hybrids, and a Nissan Murano. I have yet to drive a new Honda with a CVT, though I hear that they're quite good. CVTs appeal to me if they have good programming.
I think the rubber band effect is somewhat inevitable...it comes from letting the engine pull the car forward in somewhat of a fixed ratio (unless you really cane it), and then once it's at an efficient speed for making power, the CVT will start to "pull it back down" with ratio reduction which typically lowers the engine speed while continuing to accelerate the car. That ratio reduction happens nearly instantaneously in a conventional automatic, so you don't feel it happening but for a fraction of a second.
They say the current Honda CVT programming is quite good. I'd like to try it.
I think the rubber band effect is somewhat inevitable...it comes from letting the engine pull the car forward in somewhat of a fixed ratio (unless you really cane it), and then once it's at an efficient speed for making power, the CVT will start to "pull it back down" with ratio reduction which typically lowers the engine speed while continuing to accelerate the car. That ratio reduction happens nearly instantaneously in a conventional automatic, so you don't feel it happening but for a fraction of a second.
They say the current Honda CVT programming is quite good. I'd like to try it.
They slow down really well when you put them in "low" gear.
Originally Posted By: supton
How will CVT handle engine braking?
Yes, I know I know, brakes are cheap. Or cheaper.
But I still like controlling speed at times by downshifting.
My fiancee's Nissan Rogue has great engine braking. As soon as you touch the brake, it automatically "downshifts" and the engine helps slow the car down noticably.
How will CVT handle engine braking?
Yes, I know I know, brakes are cheap. Or cheaper.
But I still like controlling speed at times by downshifting.
My fiancee's Nissan Rogue has great engine braking. As soon as you touch the brake, it automatically "downshifts" and the engine helps slow the car down noticably.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Kiwi_ME,
don't know about naming it, but it has been invented before (hydraulically)...
Well, I think there are other examples too of pilot controlled variable gearing, including that from the marine company that sued Toyota. Combined with load leveling applied to IC makes it clever. Hydrostatic versions of load leveling was tested in UPS trucks years ago as an experiment.
Originally Posted By: exranger06
My fiancee's Nissan Rogue has great engine braking. As soon as you touch the brake, it automatically "downshifts" and the engine helps slow the car down noticably.
My mother's diesel BMW with conventional 5-speed auto does the same but only when you apply the brakes the second time. It's aggressive and quite irritating really.
Kiwi_ME,
don't know about naming it, but it has been invented before (hydraulically)...
Well, I think there are other examples too of pilot controlled variable gearing, including that from the marine company that sued Toyota. Combined with load leveling applied to IC makes it clever. Hydrostatic versions of load leveling was tested in UPS trucks years ago as an experiment.
Originally Posted By: exranger06
My fiancee's Nissan Rogue has great engine braking. As soon as you touch the brake, it automatically "downshifts" and the engine helps slow the car down noticably.
My mother's diesel BMW with conventional 5-speed auto does the same but only when you apply the brakes the second time. It's aggressive and quite irritating really.
Who cares about regular automatics, at the end of the day you still just put the car in D.
What really sucks is the loss of three pedals. The only way to enjoy a car really.
What really sucks is the loss of three pedals. The only way to enjoy a car really.
If CVTs can be made durable enough to last 200K+ mi, without being totally numb, I could live with them, but yes, I would miss a transmission that shifts.
A manual is the most fun, for sure, and I find that when I have the opportunity to drive one, it is really rewarding.
A conventional automatic is obviously less fun, but still can be a little fun. My truck firms up the shifts when you punch it, and will hold a gear past 5000 RPM if you have your foot in the gas. Though it lacks the truely connected feel of a manual, hearing/feeling it go through the gears is good for the senses. It might not be the quickest vehicle out there, but it accelerates with purpose.
Some of the CVTs I have driven just feel totally disconnected. The engine revs, but the car doesn't go, at least not the way I expected. They are the most numb of all transmissions, which many people like, but I personally don't. Add in reliability concerns, and a total lack of CVTs in any application that is remotely heavy duty/intended to work, and they just loose all appeal to me.
A manual is the most fun, for sure, and I find that when I have the opportunity to drive one, it is really rewarding.
A conventional automatic is obviously less fun, but still can be a little fun. My truck firms up the shifts when you punch it, and will hold a gear past 5000 RPM if you have your foot in the gas. Though it lacks the truely connected feel of a manual, hearing/feeling it go through the gears is good for the senses. It might not be the quickest vehicle out there, but it accelerates with purpose.
Some of the CVTs I have driven just feel totally disconnected. The engine revs, but the car doesn't go, at least not the way I expected. They are the most numb of all transmissions, which many people like, but I personally don't. Add in reliability concerns, and a total lack of CVTs in any application that is remotely heavy duty/intended to work, and they just loose all appeal to me.
i all ready have. i have a 01 dakota 42 trans. had it rebuilt. that went fine. BUT between 20-30 MPH a little less than half throttle it cant decide what gear it likes, 2 nd-3 ed. i NEVER had that with my 727 in 300 L. i dont think electronics should be in a trans. it is NOT needed.
I have owned 2 Ford vehicles with a CVT and loved them. Sadly I bought one with a bad tranny because Jiffy lube put dexron in it when they serviced it. That same car went to the Ford dealer to get diagnosed and they had to drop the pan (which now contained the correct fluid that is clear/yellow colored) and when they put the pan back on they also filled it with Dexron (Red). So I think that is part of the reason CVT cars have issues is because of bad service. Once all of that was taken care of the cars were reliable. The one that had never seen Dexron had 130k on it when I sold it and no issues and the other had almost 100k when sold (35k on second trans) . I lived in a mountainous area of VA at that time and loved how the CVT worked. Always climbed hills very well at about 2500 RPM and always had just the right amount of engine braking on the way down the mountains. I am actually excited that CVT and DCT trannies are making it into so many cars now. Just not too happy with a VW Passat TDI I recently test drove. Looks like they adjusted the DSG to appeal more to the American public that refuses to accept any change. It would pause for like 2 seconds before it shifted to the next gear so the shifts weren't any quicker than a regular automatic. I thought the whole point of the DSG was quick shifts? Really not liking the 5,6,7+ speed automatics. They are always shifting, the car never gets to drive in any gear they are always just up shifting or downshifting. I think it just completely ruins the driving experience in what otherwise would be a pretty nice car. Interested in checking out the new Honda and Subaru CVT.
I know I will get some flack for this, but I recently had the chevy spark as a rental car and loved the CVT in it. No shift shock, responsive, and smooth. I figured if a [censored] Daewoo knockoff can be this good, imagine better brands.
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
If CVTs can be made durable enough to last 200K+ mi, without being totally numb, I could live with them, but yes, I would miss a transmission that shifts.
Add in reliability concerns, and a total lack of CVTs in any application that is remotely heavy duty/intended to work, and they just loose all appeal to me.
You are extremely unlikely to ever see them in any high torque application. Towing much, high power, none of these types of apps work with CVT as they cannot hold torque, quickly slip and die...
If CVTs can be made durable enough to last 200K+ mi, without being totally numb, I could live with them, but yes, I would miss a transmission that shifts.
Add in reliability concerns, and a total lack of CVTs in any application that is remotely heavy duty/intended to work, and they just loose all appeal to me.
You are extremely unlikely to ever see them in any high torque application. Towing much, high power, none of these types of apps work with CVT as they cannot hold torque, quickly slip and die...
I am waiting for some auto/pickup OEM to do what the commercial truck sector has done.... automated manual transmissions. A manual transmission that is shifted by computer. No clutch pedal. Clutch engaged and disengaged by computer.
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I look at it the other way... MTs are more efficient from a losses perspective, why wouldn't DCTs become the norm?
If imagine they will find a way to cram 8-9 gears into one, can overlay all the same controls, and probably be lighter and more efficient.
Still stinks because non-MT transmissions still take the vehicle cost up by $750-1500 no matter how you look at it, even if it's built into the price.
Right now it seems step-shift autos with more gear ratios are the norm.
I too prefer the DCT's as they could be controlled like manuals but offer the same convenience as an auto. In addition, DCT's could be designed to handle a lot of torque.
The CVT's are true Mush-O-Matics and until the internals are beefed up and produce faster shifting, no thanks.
Go drive a Subaru WRX CVT and get back to me.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I look at it the other way... MTs are more efficient from a losses perspective, why wouldn't DCTs become the norm?
If imagine they will find a way to cram 8-9 gears into one, can overlay all the same controls, and probably be lighter and more efficient.
Still stinks because non-MT transmissions still take the vehicle cost up by $750-1500 no matter how you look at it, even if it's built into the price.
Right now it seems step-shift autos with more gear ratios are the norm.
I too prefer the DCT's as they could be controlled like manuals but offer the same convenience as an auto. In addition, DCT's could be designed to handle a lot of torque.
The CVT's are true Mush-O-Matics and until the internals are beefed up and produce faster shifting, no thanks.
Go drive a Subaru WRX CVT and get back to me.
Originally Posted By: parimento1
I know I will get some flack for this, but I recently had the chevy spark as a rental car and loved the CVT in it. No shift shock, responsive, and smooth. I figured if a [censored] Daewoo knockoff can be this good, imagine better brands.
They use a Nissan CVT
I know I will get some flack for this, but I recently had the chevy spark as a rental car and loved the CVT in it. No shift shock, responsive, and smooth. I figured if a [censored] Daewoo knockoff can be this good, imagine better brands.
They use a Nissan CVT
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