Will I Destroy my Parking Brake?

[Hokiefyd]

It puzzles me why some owner's manuals (like Toyota) prescribe same-side rotations only. Most of the industry recommends a modified cross pattern, where the drive wheels go straight back (in the case of a Camry) and the non-driven wheels cross to the front.

The only reason that I can come up with is the same-side rotation is fool-proof in that it doesn't require the technician to check to see if the tires are directional. You don't get to even out the toe-induced wear patterns if you keep the tires on the same side all the time (which causes them to drone), but at the very least, you'll never accidentally flip directional tires either.

 

[SumpChump]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
It puzzles me why some owner's manuals (like Toyota) prescribe same-side rotations only. Most of the industry recommends a modified cross pattern, where the drive wheels go straight back (in the case of a Camry) and the non-driven wheels cross to the front.

The only reason that I can come up with is the same-side rotation is fool-proof in that it doesn't require the technician to check to see if the tires are directional. You don't get to even out the toe-induced wear patterns if you keep the tires on the same side all the time (which causes them to drone), but at the very least, you'll never accidentally flip directional tires either.


FINALLY!!!! I'm not insane. Starting the thread I thought there would be a back and forth of oros and cons. Ther was "some" , but you may be the first to admit that cross rotation is a real, viable, procedure. Thank you!

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: SumpChump

FINALLY!!!! I'm not insane. Starting the thread I thought there would be a back and forth of oros and cons. Ther was "some" , but you may be the first to admit that cross rotation is a real, viable, procedure. Thank you!



I cross rotate mine.. but thats what the manual says.

I wasn't saying anything about cross rotating.. I was commenting on you calling random people morons for following your owners manual.

Did you have too much caffeine?

OEM tires usually are below average, seems like your alignment may not be 100%.. it only takes one pothole or curb.

Torque sticks work quite well even if you hammer down on them for a few seconds it wont approach the massive overtightening you get without them.

Of course thats assuming they are using the right torque stick for their impact.

 

[DBMaster]

There was a guy on the Car Talk forum a number of years ago that was against rotations. His argument seemed logical. Each time a tire is rotated to a new position on the vehicle there will be a period of accelerated wear until the tire "acclimates" to its new conditions. So, he said that overall he got more life out of his tires by never rotating and replacing them two at a time.

I personally do rotate mine. But, unless one side of the vehicle is producing more edge wear than the other I keep them on the same side to minimize the additional accelerated wear that could be caused by changing direction of rotation.

I prefer to replace tires as a set of four, otherwise I might just follow the no rotation philosophy.

 

[mcrn]

Have you had the alignment checked? If you do not like the people rotating your tires.....why not do it yourself?

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
There was a guy on the Car Talk forum a number of years ago that was against rotations. His argument seemed logical. Each time a tire is rotated to a new position on the vehicle there will be a period of accelerated wear until the tire "acclimates" to its new conditions. So, he said that overall he got more life out of his tires by never rotating and replacing them two at a time.


Hmm, that does make a valid counterpoint. I'd counter that counter with the observation that some cars wear tires badly. Like FWD. The fronts wear 2x the rears. My VW is known for feathering the rear tires, which makes quite the racket.

But that is an interesting thought, maybe my RWD truck can go 10-20k on a rotation, due to much different demands on the tires.

 

[DBMaster]

After reading these posts my take is that rotation frequency and practices are highly vehicle dependent and there is no single best practice. For example, I had a Honda Accord (non-adjustable camber) that would wear the outside edge of the right front tire. That car got more frequent rotations and would get side to side swaps. When I later replaced the upper control arms due to worn balls joints the camber was closer to zero degrees and the issue improved. The Mazda3 I have does not seem to wear the tires unevenly so it gets same side rotations every 7K. I do it myself every other time (with two floor jacks it takes a lot less time than driving to DT and waiting). On the alternating rotation dates I take the car to DT to have the wheel balance checked and adjusted.

 

[wokeupdead]

Over the years of servicing many vehicles, and many tire rotations, I generally cross the front to the back and the back straight to the front. This is on vehicles with tires in good condition. My reasoning is this, less chance of inducing a tire pull on the cross if the tires have a chance to adjust to change of direction in the rear before moving to the more demanding front position. The reason for the cross in evening tire wear is in general, the right front on front drives will wear more than the other tires. The right rear on rear drives will wear more than the others. So the cross allows all tires to be in the most wearing position at some point.

As to the uneven wear, if it is on all tires at this point, crossing the tires would not do anything to help them anyways, and it appears at least one end of your alignment is not optimal. sometimes the factory range will be "in spec", but not conducive to good tire wear. Or possibly something moving in the suspension

If both rear tires started with the uneven wear at the same time, it probably should have been brought to your attention before any rotations, to correct the problem causing the wear. Note, if it started while vehicle was under warranty, they may not be able to just correct it without a complaint from customer about specific issue.

European vehicles with rear drive tend to run lots of negative camber, they will wear tires on the inside edge quickly, and toe set is critical. I find setting Japanese vehicles like yours to the closest to zero camber negative setting on the rear, in spec, is the best. Of course toe set is also critical

 

[SumpChump]

Well, I do apologize for calling the 3 minimally trained fine young hungover gentlemen .."morons". I suppose 'clowns' is more appropriate. 3 techs doing the job don't mention anything, anytime I took it in. They measure tread depth and still don't mention or note anything. Some inspection hey?! Quality.

Why did I take it in? 2 years complimentary service. Makes sense to use it.

I'd love to find a shop that DOES the job, any job, in a professional way. Ya know... Like they are happy to be there , like they care if you are safe, like they wouldn't want a steering wheel full of used oil when they get in, like use a freakin torque wrench.

I don't drink coffee. I do however do a [censored] good job at my work and the last thing I need is to have to redo other peoples jobs. They could have at least given me a heads up, after all their bare skin handled the tire and their eyes supposedly look intentionally under auspices of inspection.

 

[supton]

If you want that then find some local shop. Dealers work off volume. No time to put the extra minute in. And way too many people to have them all on the same page.

 

[Vikas]

This *moron* (aka me) still does not understand how in the world can I destroy my parking brake by doing (or not doing) tire rotation. Am I the thick one here or the guy asking the question?

 

[asand1]

I would think that side to side rotations were more common when most cars were RWD, and the RR spun causing more wear. FWD cars don't have torque loading like RWD so its not necessary.

Many tires are directional, whether the tread appears so or not. Its safer to just let them keep rollin on as they were.

If you think you'll hurt your parking brake removing lugnuts you're not as car savvy as you think you are, definitely not more so than the guys working on your car.

You sound very self righteous, and angry. I think you are just a jerk that spouts preconcieved notions with no understanding or thought. You seem like the hard to please type that is lucky to have anyone touch there car. You would be out the door at my shop, because no one deserves your type.


Moron.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: asand1
I would think that side to side rotations were more common when most cars were RWD, and the RR spun causing more wear. FWD cars don't have torque loading like RWD so its not necessary.


Cross rotation isn't intended to even out differential wear caused by one tire spinning all the time. It's intended to even out "directional" wear caused by alignment settings that are different on the front axle vs. the rear axle (like camber, toe, etc).

Originally Posted By: asand1
Many tires are directional, whether the tread appears so or not.


Can you please explain this some more?

 

[mcrn]

I love this site. Yes the OP does seem angry and seems like the type that would complain to someones boss in a heart beat before looking at facts, such as what the owners manual recommends, and not take into account the persons job you are jeopardizing. I hope the OP reads this and believes, especially at first, that being nice will get you farther. I think that will get you more help on this website and at dealers or other shops as well. I always try to be nice at first and see how they respond. Once they take advantage of me being nice, if they even ever do, then my attitude changes.

 

[asand1]

I have seen tires with arrows on the sidewalls without having an obvious directional tread pattern.

 

[SumpChump]

Originally Posted By: asand1

You sound very self righteous, and angry. I think you are just a jerk that spouts preconcieved notions with no understanding or thought. You seem like the hard to please type that is lucky to have anyone touch there car. You would be out the door at my shop, because no one deserves your type.


Your points:
1. Sure I'm angry. They didn't do quality work or inform me about easily observed wear issues.
2. I know what I know and the other stuff I ask about, that's why I was here.
3. Actually I am very pleasable. Just put the burger about the middle of the bun, the malt near the top of the cup and I'm good. In other words, DO the job with some kind of intent and quality because...after all, it's.... ALL YOU DO, ALL DAY.
4. That's to bad, you sound genuinely interested in your work and would do better for yourself to work to educate the customer rather than alienate them. Luckily your not a teacher or doctor or pastor, they don't get to "send 'em out the door" they have to choke their pride and serve.

 

[SHOZ]

Some tires you can't cross rotate without dismounting because they are directional. Some cars come with two different sizes front/vs rear.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
This *moron* (aka me) still does not understand how in the world can I destroy my parking brake by doing (or not doing) tire rotation. Am I the thick one here or the guy asking the question?

Originally Posted By: asand1
I would think that side to side rotations were more common when most cars were RWD, and the RR spun causing more wear. FWD cars don't have torque loading like RWD so its not necessary.

Many tires are directional, whether the tread appears so or not. Its safer to just let them keep rollin on as they were.

If you think you'll hurt your parking brake removing lugnuts you're not as car savvy as you think you are, definitely not more so than the guys working on your car.

You sound very self righteous, and angry. I think you are just a jerk that spouts preconcieved notions with no understanding or thought. You seem like the hard to please type that is lucky to have anyone touch their car. You would be out the door at my shop, because no one deserves your type.


Moron.


Well put.





O/P- I think you'd be better served to simply do ALL manintenance and repairs yourself. Afterall nobody cares for your car as much as you. I get the impression that no shop will ever measure up to your expectations.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: asand1
I would think that side to side rotations were more common when most cars were RWD, and the RR spun causing more wear. FWD cars don't have torque loading like RWD so its not necessary.

Many tires are directional, whether the tread appears so or not. Its safer to just let them keep rollin on as they were.


On my RWD with LSD the right rear will wear more than the left. I cannot rotate front to rear due to different tires sizes. I make sure the tires I get are NOT directional so I can rotate them side to side.

 

[Vikas]

Nobody has still explained how tire rotation is related to destroying parking brake. Please, I am begging you, the suspense is killing me.